They could have invested in extra trains (as other TOC's have done since privtisation) but they've been far too risk averse.
In fact GNER could have served Sunderland without having to find any extra stock or crews simply by running the Aberdeen and Inverness HSTs via Sunderland - after all why do those trains need to run under the wires?
The other encouraging development is that the Dept. of Transport has finally woken up to what a rip off the Rolling Stock Co's (ROSCO's) are. As I've said before, an example of this is that they charge £500,000 pa for each cl 158 DMU (these cost BR £1million apiece back in 1990) so during their 15 year franchise Wales & Borders will have had to pay £7.5 million (ie £500K times 15!) for trains which cost BR £1 million. So it's good to see the DfT finally waking up to this fact - I hope they order the ROSCO's to cut their charges by a factor of at least 10 or better still confiscate the trains and give them to the Train Operators. The considerable amount of money thus saved could then be spent on improvements to the network.
I am please Grand Central have got the go ahead! GNER are just too complacent - all they've done is sit back and sweat the assets they inherited from BR. They could have invested in extra trains (as other TOC's have done since privtisation) but they've been far too risk averse. So others prepared to take the risks - first Hull Trains, now Grand Central - should be allowed to do so. (In fact GNER could have served Sunderland without having to find any extra stock or crews simply by running the Aberdeen and Inverness HSTs via Sunderland - after all why do those trains need to run under the wires?).
My brother and I took lots of photos during our stay in Carlisle - these will appear on his website in due course.
I see GNER and DAft by proxy have lost their court case v the ORR in regards to open access on the East Coast Main Line. So all aboard for Grand Central and direct trains to Sunderland then.
Watch those premiums tumble for the next round of franchising. And watch those subsidies increase. This may actually be the spur which sees the wheel turn yet another notch in its circle. They may actually contemplate Network Rail taking on a franchise just to see how much money they could save.
Would be interesting to say the least.
Sounds like a splendid time, Tulyar.
Photos?
John Baker
Hi all,
I've just returned from a very enjoyable week's holiday in Carlisle. My brother and a couple of friends rented a flat for a week in an old brewery (which is now a hall of residence for the University of Central Lancashire's Carlisle campus!) which was right beside the West Coast Main Line, about 1/4 mile north of Carlisle station. All trains have to use this piece of track since the freight avoiding lines were closed in 1983 after a bridge over the River Caldew was damaged by a runaway freight train.
Inevitably most freights were hauled by 66's but other locos seen in action included classes 20, 37, 47, 57/3, 86, 90 and 92. The piece de resistance was freight with 4 locos on it - two 92's and two 66's, but only the leading 92 was under power.
As for heritage railways , we visited the Ravenglass and Eskdale (very impressive, it runs a 30 min frequency which requires 5 steam locos to be in steam. If you were to scale up this 15" gauge lines 2-8-2's to 4' 8.5" they'd dwarf anything that ran on the mainline here!) and the 2' gauge South Tyndale Railway. In addition to drinking in some of the best pubs in the City we also visited a pub near Wetherall station on the line to Newcastle. I forget it's name but its been local CAMRA Pub of the Year and is by the line. You can get to it from Wetherall station by walking along a footpath besides the lines which takes you over the impressive viaduct over the River Eden - it's about a 10 minute walk. During the half hour in which we drunk our first pint we saw 5 trains - 2 passenger, 3 freight - 2 x 66 and 1 x 37!
All in all a thorough enjoyable holiday, The Old Brewery residence is 10 minutes walk from Carlisle City Centre and rail station and the flats therein are available to hire during the summer holidays. More info at www.impacthousing.org.uk
John, WCML goes to Picc adilly but there's no physical connection from the Northbound side onto the Guide Bridge route.
A chord would be needed, which would'nt be an easy engineering project given that both routes are on viaducts at Ardwick Junction.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Had'nt heard about Trafford Park.
A lot of investment went into Trafford Park in 1987/8 when Longsight FLT closed. In terms of relocation the area around Ashburys and Gorton, as John suggests, would be good for road links but would be on the wrong side of the city for most industry and would, in railway terms, be logistically difficult to access from the South unless you took a convoluted route around the OA&GB.
I might live to eat my words but in view of the relative modernity of Trafford Park and the lack of a viable alternative (ironically the former Longsight site would be ideal) I'd anticipate Frightener hanging onto it.
On Trans-Pennine capacity it would be relatively easy to re-quadruple the Standege route between Heaton Lodge and Marsden, but I'd agree that the biggest missing link is the old Glazebrook bridge. The impressive embankments on either side are still intact.
There is - of course - a PCC in the UK. Ex New York 3rd Avenue 674 lives at Crich although it is a non-runner and looks likely to remain that way.
Oh, the joys of Friday Nightshift. £35 an hour until 06.00 with nothing to do but accept two trailers at about 02.30. It's nights like this that I wish I'd gone onto the Railways....
daveklepper wrote:You can still ride PCC's in regular service in the USA: Boston's Mattapan-Ashmont line after the Ashmont station is rebuilt in about 10 months, Kenosha, San Frfancisco's F Line, and Phily;s Gerrad Avenue, Rt. 15. More to come!
On the other hand, one of the arguments in favour of rebuilding the Woodhead is that not only was the infrastructure newer (brand new tunnel built in the 1950's!) but it was also built to a more generous loading gauge. Immediately after WW1 the Great Central considered importing some ex US Army 2-10-2's that had been used in France to work the line - these would have been out of the gauge for most lines in Britain. Also in the 1948 loco exchanges it was one of the few "foreign" lines that GWR locos were able to run on, again due to gauging considerations.
As I understand it the current proposals are based around being able to run lorries (trucks in US parlance ) piggy back style and double stack container trains. This is not possible on most lines here but again it would be possible on the Woodhead line, though they'd have to have the tunnel single track. (I seem to remember reading somewhere the running tunnels of the Chunnel were each built to the same size as the new Woodhead tunnel!).
The line which they are missing is the southern Manchester CLC ring really. This closed in '85 due to the bridge over the MSC at Glazebrook being cream crackered.
However there are plenty of Transpennine routes available; the Hope requires resignalling and that will be cheaper than rebuilding 35miles over double track at roughly £3m a mile plus extras.
What is interesting is where (or of) they shift Trafford Park Freight Terminal. Apparently some are eyeing that up for housing; also glad to see that the govt have finally given a half hearted and grudging go-ahead for the Metrolink tram system extension. Probabley one eye on a few marginals in the Greater Manchester Area I should think.
Simon Reed wrote: Woodhead will always be an emotive topic, and coincidentally today marks the 25th anniversary of it's complete closure.
Woodhead will always be an emotive topic, and coincidentally today marks the 25th anniversary of it's complete closure.
Basically the problem with the Woodhead line was it was obsolete almost by the time it was electrified. Back in the 1930's when the project was conceived freight trains were re-marshalled on either side of the Pennines - Mottram Yard in Manchester and Wath in Yorkshire (later also Tinsley and the Woodhead electfication was extended there in 1960 when Tinsley Yard opened).
But no sooner had Tinsley Yard opened than BR started to concentrate on train load feight, particularly Merry-Go-Round (MGR) coal trains that were designed to run non-stop from pit to power station. In the case of the Woodhead line this meant two loco changes in a relatively short distance.
As traffic declined during the 1970's it got to the stage where half the trains were light engines! Often a crew would arrive with a westbound freight at Mottram and find no east bound train. They could only wait a certain length of time otherwise they would not be able to return home in time without doing excessive hours.
That said, had more electrification happened, especially if the East Coast Main line been electrified a lot sooner, the case for converting the Woodhead to 25kv AC would have been much stronger. Indeed in the 1955 proposal to electrify the ECML it was assumed this would happen and electrification of the Retford - Sheffield line was included in this proposal. (Just as well this did not happen as it would have finished off the Midland Main Line!).
Incidentally - for those interested in L&Y operations in Yorkshire the Kirklees Light Railway is holding it's first ever enthusiast's event on September 16th and 17th.
KLR runs on the roadbed of the Clayton West branch at 15" gauge, including a run through the standard gauge Skelmanthorpe tunnel.
It's a fine little railway and well worth a visit.
Murphy's question on the last page regarding what we do with abandoned roadbeds is very pertinent here.
As I understand it, although the tunnels remain intact the roadbed on the Lancashire side is now submerged under the extended Torside reservoir. On the Yorkshire side at least one bridge before Penistone has been demolished and there's very little left of Worsley Bank or Wath.
At present there is'nt a great demand for East - West freight traffic flows across the North of England. If that situation changed I would imagine that the Hope Valley has capacity without requiring extensive investment.
I fail to see, therefore, what market Central Railways hope to tap. Certainly both WCML and ECML are running at close to capacity at the moment but utilising the Woodhead route for North - South flows would'nt help this problem.
Dave - Vambacs and PCC's have essentially the same two design innovations, ie. Stepless Control and Resilient wheels. I've enjoyed several PCC rides in Newark and Philadelphia. The Newark examples were pretty much at the end of their lives when I rode them but were still quite acceptable compared to European products of the same era.
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