Didn't North British build steam loco's for Newfoundland?
Also, Wilfrid F Sims shows pictures of a Brush / Clayton BR type 4 locomotive in Cuban National Railwasy volume II. Ten were delivered in 1965-1966, class 52501-52510.
They were apparently not a success.
greetings,
Marc Immeker
English Electric were quite successful at exporting diesel locomotives in the 1940's and 1950's. Whilst this was mostly to British Commonwealth countries, other countries they supplies included Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Portugal and Poland.
In some of the African and S. American countries they supplied operating conditions were based on US practice, so it was a prudent business move when building a prototype, such as the prototype Deltic to make it suitable for such conditions. As a result the prototype Deltic had a huge headlamp and its body was similar to those of some electric locos built for Brazil and Spain in the 1950's. I believe there was an attempt to interest one of the Canadian railways in acquiring some deltics and there was talk of shipping the prototype Deltic to Canada but this never happened.
The Deltics were expensive compared with other diesel locos and even within the English Electric company not everyone admired them. On the plus side they enabled British Rail's North Eastern region to provide passenger train schedules which would otherwise only have been possible with electrification, which BR could not afford at that time. However, once Gerald Fiennes, the NER General Manager responsible for masterminding their introduction had gone, enthusiam for them dried up. However the speeds that the Deltics made possible resulted in the development of the High Speed Diesel Train (or HST as they soon became referred). I believe the use of Deltic engines in these was considered but instead they opted for the Paxman Valenta, a 12 cylinder four stroke engine the developments costs of which were shared between the manufacturer (also part of the English Electric group by the late 1960's), BR and the Royal Navy. (Valentas are used in battleships too!).
The only other deltic powered locomotives I know were the short lived 1,100 hp "Baby Deltic" Bo-Bo which had a 9 cylinder Deltic engine in them. Only 10 of these were built as they were less reliable and more costly to run than the more numerous 1,100hp Sulzer engined locos. The "Baby Deltic"s were all withdrawn by 1972, though one survived with BR's research department and was used by them for hauling test trains for some years after, until replaced in this role by one of the Sulzer locos.
As for English Electric, the last locos they built for export were some 2,000hp diesels in the 1970s for Malaysia. These employed the same 12 cylinder engine as used in the BR class 37's but their bodies were similar in appearance to the BR class 50's. I believe some of these are still in use.
"Deltic" engines have been used as generators and when my brother Derek worked in an engineering company in Newcastle-on-Tyne in the 1980's they had a Deltic engine performing that role.
John Baker
This question was asked about the Deltics on the Trains.com forum-
is it true or not,was the deltic designed for work in the states ? was it a political decision not to have them ? if they did would more have been built ? help !!!!!!
is it true or not,was the deltic designed for work in the states ? was it a political decision not to have them ? if they did would more have been built ?
help !!!!!!
If anyone would like to answer, the question is here-
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/923379/ShowPost.aspx
Exactly what sort of boilers did you acquire John? I realise people still make boilers for a number of applications, such as power stations. In the UK in the last 10 years most new power stations have been gas fired, where natural gas is used to power gas turbine engines and then the hot exhaust gases are used to make steam which powers steam turbines (probably triple expansion).
Fred Dibnah talked about "Lancashire Boilers" on a number of occassions but never explained exactly what a "Lancashire Boiler" is. Do you know?
As for Israel Newton, I think the GWR Pannier Tank boiler was probably the largest boiler they've made in recent years.
As for rivets, I know the new boiler bein made for the Porthmadog Welsh Highland's (www.whr.co.uk) Baldwin 4-6-0T will be welded but will have dummy rivets to make it look authentic!
I think it must be price. We can definitely still build boilers in Britain. The Bradford (W. Yorks) based firm of Israel Newton has recently made boilers for the following locos:-
1) Welsh Highland 0-4-0 + 0-4-0 Beyer-Garratt
2) the new Linton & Barnstaple 2-6-2T being built by the Ffestiniog Railway
3) Llangollen Railway 0-6-0PT # 6412
4) The new engine unit for the Great Western society's steam railmotor.
The firm was featured in one of the Fred Dibnah TV programmes.
Mu brother has added some archive pics of Shrewsbury to his site, including some of loco hauled trains with pairs of class 25's. Happy days!
http://www.roscalen.com/signals/Shrewsbury/index.htm
I think Merseyrail has been one of the more successful franchises. Then again it could hardly not be as its self contained and got modern stock and infrastructure. From what I can gather NS/Serco are doing a better job with the Northern franchise than Arriva.
Serco/NS are one of three bidders for the West Midlands franchise that have made to the shortlist ( the other two ar GoVia and MTR Corporation, who run the Hong Kong metro; existing operator National Express has not made the short list).
Just this morning NS had its regular half page ad in the free rush hour newspaper Metro.
It put the spotlight on its international division known as Nedrailways.
In Great Britain it operates the Merseyrail and Northern Rail concessions together with a company called Serco.
Merseyrail (around Liverpool, 2005 figures):
100.000 travellers/ day
growth 6 %
punctuality 93 % based on 5 minute norm
1.100 workers
60 trains and 600 trainservices / day
120 km track and 66 stations
Northern Rail (2005):
200.000 travellers / day
growth 12.5 % punctuality from 84,3 to 86 %
4.500 workers
270 trains and 2.500 trainservices / day
2.800 km track and 475 stations in an area larger than the Netherlands.
Just wondering how do they compare to other railroad companies in Britain and against good old BR?
I think one of the problems with the WR diesel hydraulics was build quality - especially those built by the North British Loco Co of Glasgow. Even in steam days that builder had issues with build quality. For instance, the batch of "King Arthur" 4-6-0's supplied tp the Southern Railway by NBL were found to be off inferior build quality and had to be called into Eastleigh works to have the defects rectifiied. (Ironically the only survivor of this class, #30777 "Sir Lamiel" is from this batch!).
The diesel electric D6100 class, also built by NBL were also poor performers until some of them were rebuilt by BR Inverurie works with Paxmans engines ( a forerunner of the Paxman engine which powers the HST!). Given the similarity between the diesel-electric D6100 and the hydraulic D6300 class it's suprising BR did not use this as an oppurtunity to compare the merits of the different transmissions by allocating some D6100's to the Western and/or some D6300's to the Scottish region. (The Paxman engines latter fitted to some of the D6100's were first tried in a Swindon built "Warship" diesel-hydraulic loco which suggests the WR and ScR did at least talk to each other!).
As for the "Warships" and "Westerns" my comments about NBL apply to #D600-4 and #D833-869. Swindon works at this time was suffering from a shortage of labour ( a lot of workers were finding better paid jobs at the Rover car plant in the town) and this delayed a number of projects (it also explains why it took Swindon longer to build a smaller number of 9F's than Crewe did - both works got the order at the same time but as a result BR's last steam loco #92220 "Evening Star" was not the highest numbered 9F, which confused some trainspotters!). This compounded with the problems in scaling down German designs to the fit the BR loading gauge resulted in the "Warships" and "Westerns" having lots of teething problems, and most of the "Westerns" ended up being built at Crewe; only the first 30 were built at Swindon. (Curiously though, the majority of preserved "Westerns" are from the Swindon batch; likewise 9F 2-10-0s! - Perhaps when Swindon did eventually get round to building something they at least did their best - the Swindon Cross Country DMU's lasted well though sadly none are preserved).
This just leaves the "Hymeks", which by contrast Beyer Peacock designed from a clean sheet of paper. B-P also seemed to have had good build quality - I seem to remember the batch of class 25 diesel electrics they built were better than their sisters built at the BR works at Derby & Darlington. The old Canton driver I know rates the "Hymeks" as far and away the best of the hydraulic classes. He's not a fan of the "Westerns" though he admits they had good acceleration. HE much prefers the 47's though he admits a 50 is even better!
Diesel - Hydraulics are alive and well in most of the standard DMU classes in the UK today.
The trouble with the Hydraulic locos in the UK was, I think, a three-fold problem.
Firstly the technology was new. Germany had come to terms with hydraulic traction and had engineering capability to deal with problems arising. The UK did not. In the 1960's many UK depots operated steam and diesel side by side. Staff were expected to be competent on both types and this clearly was'nt going to work.
Secondly the technology was complex. Hydraulic transmission needs high-revving power units which need more finely balanced over-rides and protection systems. A lot of the failures on UK hydraulic locos were attributed to "ancillary" failures - eg. sticking oil pressure valves which would shut down an engine.
Thirdly the technology was non-standard. Only the Western Region of BR ordered hydraulics in any number. As freight traffic fell away in the 1970's - and the West Coast Main Line was electrified - diesel electrics became surplus on other regions and standardised classes became available to the Western Region.
Having said that I don't think there's any doubt that the men who worked the hydraulics loved them. No worries about overload - you can put a hydraulic straight into notch (run) 9 and after shaking itself a bit it will go. Failures were easily rectified by isolated the failed component.
Our 15x classes of DMU don't necessarily do the glamour jobs but they are hydraulic and, with improved systems and technology, work exceptionally well.
CrazyDiamond wrote: Tulyar15 wrote: After all, rail does not need such stringent security measures because trains dont drop out of the sky! No, but they do travel through dense cities, and if an onboard bomb were carrying the right 'payload' the results could be devastating. Terrorists will choose the path of less resistance if it can get them the results they want. Its only a matter of time that many rail systems will have to have their own stringent security measures. Vaughn
Tulyar15 wrote: After all, rail does not need such stringent security measures because trains dont drop out of the sky!
After all, rail does not need such stringent security measures because trains dont drop out of the sky!
No, but they do travel through dense cities, and if an onboard bomb were carrying the right 'payload' the results could be devastating. Terrorists will choose the path of less resistance if it can get them the results they want. Its only a matter of time that many rail systems will have to have their own stringent security measures.
Vaughn
Same can be said of road traffic (remember Oklahoma City?) yet there are no gates at the entrances to cities were cars and trucks are searched. Don't let those idiots scare you or they win every time. Normal precautions should be enough.
Worry more about the chemical stuff that is being moved via rail. Especially if it moves in standard containers. Who knows how well protected they are compared to the construction of a tank car....
What is it with diesel-hydraulics? Those that had / have them in numbers seem to love them and those that don't seem to hate them. Or at least want to get rid of them as fast as they can.
Simon Reed wrote: Out of perversity...what was on the front of the train passing through Four Oaks? Whatever it was it was working hard.
Out of perversity...what was on the front of the train passing through Four Oaks? Whatever it was it was working hard.
If I had to guess, at that period it would be a Holbeck or Gateshead allocated Peak (45/0). If not, it would be a 47 (slightly more likely if it was a train from Newcastle).
Anything else would have had the train-spotters at New Street jumping up and down (me included at the time !)
Tony
Simon Reed wrote: Tulyar - great stuff as usual. Can't find anything on your brother's site about your Cumbrian trip yet. Having said that there's a good article in this month's RM about Carlisle PSB. I was over there yesterday (does anyone want a house in Whitehaven please? We can't seem to sell it) and spent an hour or so at St. Bees. Such a fascinating station. I'm writing about it here on a US website and it's a 19th Century anachronism. Out of perversity...what was on the front of the train passing through Four Oaks? Whatever it was it was working hard.
Tulyar - great stuff as usual.
Can't find anything on your brother's site about your Cumbrian trip yet. Having said that there's a good article in this month's RM about Carlisle PSB.
I was over there yesterday (does anyone want a house in Whitehaven please? We can't seem to sell it) and spent an hour or so at St. Bees. Such a fascinating station. I'm writing about it here on a US website and it's a 19th Century anachronism.
My brother has put a page on for New Cumnock (on the former Glasgow and Sou' West line)
http://www.roscalen.com/signals/NewCumnock/index.htm
but he seems to be concentrating on scanning his archive pics at the moment. As John B pointed, he's only got so much time.
I'm afraid my brother probably didn't record the loco pulling him thru 4 Oaks. It was probably a Sunday as I remember him saying that in those days they often diverted cross country inter city trains via Lichfield on Sundays (I think they still do on occassions, but in those days the Lichfield - Burton-on-Trent line was double track throughout; it's single nowadays). My brother is not particularly interested in locos. This a pity as he has taken one or two good shots which he has not published. The day he went to Wrexham, for instance, he saw three 40's as well as a 25 that you do see on those pics.
marcimmeker wrote:Did some digging through the internet and came upon these pictures showing the unloading of ACTS 5811 (former EWS 58039?) in the harbor in Rotterdam-Maasvlakte. I don't know why there is no correspondence in numbers. This is not the eleventh locomotive of this class for ACTS. They have locomotives with numbers 5811, 5812 and 5814. http://www.rolandrail.net/special/special011.htm What did this class look like in BR or EWS colours? Where there other companies that used these locomotives? greetings, Marc Immeker
Did some digging through the internet and came upon these pictures showing the unloading of ACTS 5811 (former EWS 58039?) in the harbor in Rotterdam-Maasvlakte. I don't know why there is no correspondence in numbers. This is not the eleventh locomotive of this class for ACTS. They have locomotives with numbers 5811, 5812 and 5814.
http://www.rolandrail.net/special/special011.htm
What did this class look like in BR or EWS colours? Where there other companies that used these locomotives?
Thanks Tony.
I will go in october I think so there will be some time left for planning.
marcimmeker wrote: Hook of Holland - Harwich ferry. Stena are going to take the HSS Stena Discovery of this route, I think at the end of the year. Regular ferries will be subsituted. I'am not sure if there will be a daytime sailing. I want to take the opportunity to go to London on the catamaran before it will be used elsewhere. What is there to see on the rail trip? What route does it take? Is it worthwile to leave the train and take some pictures along the route? Thanks for the info. greetings, Marc Immeker
Hook of Holland - Harwich ferry.
Stena are going to take the HSS Stena Discovery of this route, I think at the end of the year. Regular ferries will be subsituted. I'am not sure if there will be a daytime sailing.
I want to take the opportunity to go to London on the catamaran before it will be used elsewhere.
What is there to see on the rail trip? What route does it take? Is it worthwile to leave the train and take some pictures along the route?
Thanks for the info.
The route is along the Harwich branch to the main line at Manningtree, then via Colchester, Chelmsford, Shenfield, Ilford and Stratford to London Liverpool Street. This is the ex Great Eastern Railway main line, electrified at 25kv 50Hz (converted from the original 1500V dc in the 1960's) which carries very heavy commuter traffic and a fair amount of freight traffic (mostly Freightliner container trains from Felixstowe docks on the opposite - north - side of the river from Harwich).
If you have the time for a few diversions, catch a train from Manningtree to Ipswich (one stop east) - alongside the station is a Freightliner loco depot - class 86 and 90 electrics, class 57 and 66 diesels usually. Ipswich yard is just east of the station (where most trains from Felixstowe docks change power or reverse) - the easiest way of seeing what's there is probably to catch a train towards Felixstowe.
Heading towards London, the rural branch to Sudbury connects with the main line at Marks Tey (first stop after Colchester). On the branch, the East Anglia Railway Museum is alongside Chappel & Wakes Colne station (first stop).
Closer to London, there is a major train maintenance depot just east of Ilford station (worth a look as you pass - north side of the line after Seven Kings station).
The last station before Liverpool Street is Stratford - also a terminus for the LU Jubilee Line and a DLR branch (both on the surface, so good for photography). Fast trains tend not to stop at Stratford, so it's probably easiest buy an off-peak Travelcard at Liverpool Street - valid for unlimited travel on trains/underground/DLR/buses within the 'zones' you select - and head back if you're interested in a ride on the DLR system (one of my favourite rides in London because you get a 'drivers eye' view of the track from the front).
For UK rail timetables, maps etc see http://www.nationalrail.co.uk and for transport in London see http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/
If you need more info, let me know....
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