Not sure if I am "decent" (whatever that means). Although Raymond's posts are disruptive, I try to ignore his alcohol-scented ravings since it seems the moderators are not taking any action (so far).
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
gardendance Somebody recently posted that another trains.com user's posts are going to drive the few remaining decent posters away. If you're a decent poster, could you please let us know if you're on the verge of getting driven away?
Somebody recently posted that another trains.com user's posts are going to drive the few remaining decent posters away. If you're a decent poster, could you please let us know if you're on the verge of getting driven away?
At least have the courage to say who it was. Yes, it was me.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Patrick, I appreciate the postings of the intelligent posters so much that the postings of the immature/childish will not drive me away.
I am pleased to see the posts of serious people who do want to learn about the magnificent world of railroading, and I am glad that there are many of us old heads who are willing to help them--I even give a little help myself, from time to time.
Several years back, a young boy who said that he was going to be an engineer (I think he is now a dispatcher) began posting, and he was helped in several ways by one old head or another.
Johnny
Zuggmann, I have no courage at all, I cower behind a monitor and keyboard just like any other scaredy cat.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
Whatever.
Totally.
YES. I have quit several times for a week, or a month, or more, just to let the snippy idiotic posts slip off the 1st page so I can mark everything read and start over. I find it quite depressing for people to make snide remarks about other posters, accusing them of being "trolls" or worse. I don't see how some people can keep coming back when they are the targets of such stupidity.
But given my lousy memory for names and a short term memory that will have a hard time remembering what I just wrote, when I come back after a short hiatus, because I can't remember who the idiots are, I appreciate the helpful comments from everybody and I consider all questions to be presented as serious inquiries from someone that wants to learn from those that are in the business or know something about it... and when someone who doesn't know the business and has only a glancing knowledge of it makes a comment that another questions or corrects, I accept the criticism as being worthwhile, until it drops back into the aspersions and stupidity, then I stop reading that thread for a while (at least until I forget that I was not going to read it, which sometimes is too soon and then I remember to stop frequenting the forum altogether for a while so the bickering and snide remarks can go by the wayside and off the 1st page).
But, then I am not someone that is really "in the know" and I only have book knowledge about some very limited aspects of railroading.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper Vaporo, we seem to have this much in common. I too question whether I'm "in the know". I know a few things, and if I feel I can help I'll share what little I know. I also am much more disturbed at the posts AGAINST a supposed troll. The best way to handle a troll, as others have said, is to ignore them.
And I too have a swinging pendulum, I bounce between wanting to participate, and feeling I should take a healthy break from the computer.
Nah - why quit? It's usually more fun to watch them self-destruct (or to help them do so).
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
When it comes to so-called trolls, their posts usually don't bother me. I read them and go on. But when other kids on the playground start jumping on them, I find that kinda amusing. Don't take things so seriously.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
No. I have made a few friends and learned a lot from the forum. It is usually better than what is on tv.
And as maybe the only posting female on this forum, I like to think there are some people on here that don't mind my questions and others that think I am a nuisance. It's ok - it is all an experience. But I do wish people wouldn't feed the trolls.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
A friend told me about his past participation on a RR oriented forum (not this one). Someone asked a question about a subject in which he was extremely knowledgeable. He saw that some answers were naive, speculative, poorly informed, incomplete, or just plain wrong. So he posted the correct answers. His comments were roundly dismissed. He says as far as he knows, those folks are still trying to find the information he spoon-fed to them a long time ago.
True story: When I was about 12 years old, the N&W was still operating steam locomotives. My friends and I were building a model railroad. As we worked, someone brought up the N&W and called it the North Fork & Western. He was living a rather sheltered life and had never heard of Norfolk, Virginia. I corrected him, and I was promptly told that there was no such place as Norfolk, that Norfolk was a stupid and meaningless name, and I was absolutely wrong. To prove his point, he called for a vote. Nobody else in the group had heard of Norfolk either, so Norfolk was voted down and the N&W became the North Fork & Western. Majority rules, and the majority can't be wrong. I gave up. That describes some situations I see here. When somebody is immune to learning, or when I conclude they have nothing from which I can learn, then I stop wasting my time and I move on.
Tom
Mookie No. I have made a few friends and learned a lot from the forum. It is usually better than what is on tv. And as maybe the only posting female on this forum, I like to think there are some people on here that don't mind my questions and others that think I am a nuisance. It's ok - it is all an experience. But I do wish people wouldn't feed the trolls.
If one is really bothered by something posted they should click the Report Abuse (yellow triangle) link at the bottom left of the post and let the Monitors handle it.
Note others may or may not agree with your assessment. Also sometimes even a real Troll posts something useful even if that is not their intention.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
DSchmitt
2 things come to mind, "out of the mouths of babes" and "even a stopped clock is right sometime".
For example, I bet many of you would agree that http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/743/t/252434.aspx "I cant get the porter to Microwave my TV Dinner" is a rather silly thread, but I feel there are some interesting comments in it.
wanswheel, I finally clicked on your "Jesus was a capricorn" video. I generally don't click through on things with no description, but those with no description generally are less of a waste of my time than those that tempt me with "this is the greatest", or "you'll be amazed", or lists whose headers say "and number 5 will amaze you". But that turned out to be a pretty good song, and kind of applicable to this thread.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/kriskristofferson/jesuswasacapricorn.html
Jesus was a Capricorn He ate organic food He believed in love and peace And never wore no shoes Long hair, beard and sandles And a funky bunch of friends Reckon we'd just nail him up If he came down again [Chorus:] 'Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on Prove they can be better than at any time they choose Someone doin' somethin' dirty decent folks can frown on If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me Eggheads fussin' rednecks cussin' Hippies for their hair Others laugh at straights who laugh at Freaks who laugh at squares Some folks hate the Whites Who hate the Blacks who hate the Klan Most of us hate anything that We don't understand
Jesus was a Capricorn
He ate organic food
He believed in love and peace
And never wore no shoes
Long hair, beard and sandles
And a funky bunch of friends
Reckon we'd just nail him up
If he came down again
[Chorus:]
'Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on
Prove they can be better than at any time they choose
Someone doin' somethin' dirty decent folks can frown on
If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me
Eggheads fussin' rednecks cussin'
Hippies for their hair
Others laugh at straights who laugh at
Freaks who laugh at squares
Some folks hate the Whites
Who hate the Blacks who hate the Klan
Most of us hate anything that
We don't understand
ACY ... I was promptly told that there was no such place as Norfolk, that Norfolk was a stupid and meaningless name, and I was absolutely wrong
... I was promptly told that there was no such place as Norfolk, that Norfolk was a stupid and meaningless name, and I was absolutely wrong
I too think that Norfolk Virginia is a stupid name, its only purpose is for the pesky conductor to holler that sleeping car passengers are not allowed to engage in amorous activities if one of them is named Virginia.
ACY When somebody is immune to learning, or when I conclude they have nothing from which I can learn, then I stop wasting my time and I move on.
When somebody is immune to learning, or when I conclude they have nothing from which I can learn, then I stop wasting my time and I move on.
But have you ever felt, or are likely to feel, that moving on should entail never participating in the website again?
ChuckCobleighThinking back, I remember a couple of other distaff forum members that have seemed to move on, or at least I haven't seen them post for quite a while.
Can't forget Nora, whose "Stupid Question" thread was anything but... Last I knew she was working for a railroad, too.
I know about that "we've never heard of it" thing - probably lost a trivia game once because no one else playing had ever heard of Reykyavik, Iceland...
While it may be falling into a troll's trap, I find it hard to let go by a downright false statement. If I feel the ol' dander rising, though, I usually let it go, at least for a while.
As is written often on many fora - if you don't like it, don't read it. I care little about the Sunset Route, so generally skip that thread. I usually read "troll" material, though, just to be amazed at the depths of dumb that sometimes show up, but responding is another story.
I was a troll, to some Yoopers. (Cuz I lived under da bridge.)Some people who have seemed like trolls when they started posting eventually grew up. I'm glad we don't have too many of the flame wars that we used to have here. They made things interesting, but we can now go to Facebook for that maturity level if we wish.Interesting that you mentioned K.P.'s Sunset Route thread, Larry. I don't get into it any more. Not that I'm not interested (in fact, I traveled the length of that route this past spring, and noticed many projects going on)--it's just a little hard to keep track of at times. But I sincerely hope that K.P. doesn't give up on us...because when things get done, it's conceivable that with a bit of editing, there's an incredible reference book in these thousands of posts.If there's a question that I can answer (my unique experiences and expertises have to count for something), I'll do it. I'd even venture to say that they give a level to my speculation that exceeds the average (once given the facts). If I can't answer, theorize, or have an interest, I'll shut up and read.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Patrick (Gardendance), if I had decided that I would never participate in the forum again, I wouldn't be on it today. However, there are some threads that I consider ancient history, better forgotten.
ChuckCobleigh[snipped - PDN] . . . Thinking back, I remember a couple of other distaff forum members that have seemed to move on, or at least I haven't seen them post for quite a while. One is CW and the other was our CSX fan (can't remember her name, just the handle CSXforevah, I think) who actually ended up going on the job with CSX, as I recall. . . .
"LORD HELP US ALL TO BE ORIGINAL AND NOT CRISPY!!! please? Sarah J.M. Warner conductor CSX"
Interesting post near the bottom of this page:
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/200788.aspx?page=2
Nothing posted here by her for a few years. I hope she's doing well, what with all the recent closures at CSX.
- Paul North.
I don't go away per say.... Just "keep my head down" so to speak. (If you count me as decent. Just don't ever call me normal. That is an insult! )
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Ricky: You are a unique individual... just like everybody else.
Wanswheel --- Thanks. Now and then we need a reminder of Kris' deep belief that there is dignity in everybody, no matter how humble and no matter how many troubles that person may have. He always struck me as a humble man. He is an adequate guitar player, with a voice that's distinctive, but not great. His great strength is that he is one of our greatest and most moving poets, and his lyrics always express a deep love of humanity. This country needs more of his attitude, now more than ever.
gardendanceSomebody recently posted that another trains.com user's posts are going to drive the few remaining decent posters away.
That sounds like a rather trollish comment to begin with. Obviously they were trying to provoke a reaction. You fed the troll by falling for it.
Let's not overlook that this is a internet forum! Not a church service or a court room. Troll's exist - get over it.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Locomotives? Luxury, we were lucky to have handcars. We had to get up at 9 o'clock, half an hour before we went to bed, clean the handcar with our tongues, have a breakfast of cold poison, work the railroad for 25 hours and pay the road foreman of engines for the privilege. When we got home our dad would kill us, cut up our bodies and dance a jig on our graves.
But you try to tell the young people of today that and they won't believe you.
It already has for me. 10 years ago this forum was at least a once a day stop, with posts from me most days. I now stop by once every couple of weeks. Between the "ya but", certain posters hate for anyone who works for the railroad, or the ramblings of whatever Ohiorivertrail's screen name is this week make it not worth the stop.
I know that is not what you asked, as I am no longer a "decent poster", however just my .
An "expensive model collector"
Before I retired I practiced corporate law for 36 years. On a regular basis I dealt with those whose actual paid occupation was to goad and provoke and insult and do everything and anything possible in the hopes that I would react in an ill-advised manner. I would also say that I dealt every day with highly skilled individuals whose job it was to zealously advance the interests of their clients, so very real and very intense confrontation and heated argument was on the agenda every day.
The worst of the annoying posters and trolls on the internet including these Forums were and are amateurs compared to the folks I refer to. I cannot imagine anyone's postings here getting to me to the extent I would take my bat and ball and go home.
Having said that, please don't try!
Dave Nelson
CShaveRRInteresting that you mentioned K.P.'s Sunset Route thread, Larry.
And I hope K.P. isn't in any way offended. As noted, that particular thread (among others) simply don't interest me.
Sarah is a friend on Facebook. I believe she's back home in Philly now.
Convicted One gardendance Somebody recently posted that another trains.com user's posts are going to drive the few remaining decent posters away. That sounds like a rather trollish comment to begin with. Obviously they were trying to provoke a reaction. You fed the troll by falling for it.
gardendance Somebody recently posted that another trains.com user's posts are going to drive the few remaining decent posters away.
Can you be clearer, what is it that you think was the trollish comment, chessiecat's "need to delete my post" thread or zugmann's "he'll make the decent posters go away" reply? Or both? There's nothing to say that a thread, or bridge, can't have more than 1 troll.
I feel not all troll food is the same, and I hope my response, to ask others if they agree with the "decent posters will go away" fear is a low calorie healthy choice.
I like to think that troll can mean fishing, looking to goad people into informative discussion. Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
n012944 It already has for me. 10 years ago this forum was at least a once a day stop, with posts from me most days. I now stop by once every couple of weeks. Between the "ya but", certain posters hate for anyone who works for the railroad, or the ramblings of whatever Ohiorivertrail's screen name is this week make it not worth the stop. I know that is not what you asked, as I am no longer a "decent poster", however just my .
You may not consider yourself a decent poster, but I think yours was a decent post.
Why do "ya but", I assume you mean Euclid's, and Ohiorivertrail's posts bother you so much that they might make you quit, even for a little while? If they bothered me that much I'd just ignore their posts, I don't think there are so many of them, and ones like them, that they get in the way of the decent posts. And they aren't obviously directing their posts to me, I'm more bothered when I comment to tell folks that they don't bother me and get a response directed to me that says I'm an idiot.
Also what's the alternative, other than leaving the internet completely? There's another railroad related internet social medium that I did quit about 2 years ago because the "you're an idiot, you're the only one who loves the trolls" comments got too much for me, and I haven't found that trains.com is much different.
gardendance I'm more bothered when I comment to tell folks that they don't bother me and get a response directed to me that says I'm an idiot.
Why are you letting the post bother you? Take your own advice and ignore it.
Nobody has to post here. I've posted here for a long time because I wanted to and found it enjoyable. It's not as fun anymore and I don't participate like I used to. I know you don't care, and maybe nobody else on here cares either. So be it. It's no skin off my back to stop contributing. I'm sure the forum will be better off. I'm not going to bother if this thing is just another facebook-esque forum with such thought-provoking posts like "I shoudn't drink and post" and other crap that has nothing to do with the forum subject at hand. Defend it all you want, I don't care. So maybe in the end his posts are going to just drive me away. Oh well.
That's my opinion.
Not sure if I'm a decent poster, but I'm not on the verge of being driven away. I generally read more than I post. With so much bad stuff going on in the world its nice to come to a place where people want to talk about trains.. I don't take issue with people who disagree with me, nor do I allow myself to get offended by what others say. It's all good.
Ulrich Not sure if I'm a decent poster, but I'm not on the verge of being driven away. I generally read more than I post. With so much bad stuff going on in the world its nice to come to a place where people want to talk about trains.. I don't take issue with people who disagree with me, nor do I allow myself to get offended by what others say. It's all good.
zugmann gardendance I'm more bothered when I comment to tell folks that they don't bother me and get a response directed to me that says I'm an idiot. Why are you letting the post bother you? Take your own advice and ignore it. Nobody has to post here. I've posted here for a long time because I wanted to and found it enjoyable. It's not as fun anymore and I don't participate like I used to. I know you don't care, and maybe nobody else on here cares either. So be it. It's no skin off my back to stop contributing. I'm sure the forum will be better off. I'm not going to bother if this thing is just another facebook-esque forum with such thought-provoking posts like "I shoudn't drink and post" and other crap that has nothing to do with the forum subject at hand. Defend it all you want, I don't care. So maybe in the end his posts are going to just drive me away. Oh well. That's my opinion.
He is not just a troll.
EuclidIt is a means of guilt tripping individuals still on the forum by accusing them of injuring the entire forum by depriving it of virtuous members.
There's usually plenty of evidence leading up to those virtuous member's departures. Not to mention PM's which do outline why people quit participating.
Besides, why would you want to give a troll a reason to gloat?
Euclid This thread seems to be the county seat of innuendo. Nobody is ever driven off of a forum by other members. It is impossible. Everyone has a choice as to whether to stay or leave. Being driven off this forum is always an injury claimed by someone still on the forum in reference to someone who has left. There is no way that the charge can be refuted except by the person who was allegedly driven off, and that person is not available to testify as to why they left. It is a means of guilt tripping individuals still on the forum by accusing them of injuring the entire forum by depriving it of virtuous members.
I recall a member who made a rather dramatic exit (a farewell forever style departure, deleting all his posts) only to return a month later.
Euclid It’s just one more clever way of blaming someone on the forum for not agreeing with you.
That kinda depends. If a poster is not a firefighter, but insist on telling me (a firefighter for nearly 40 years) that something I'm saying just has to be wrong because they don't understand it, or otherwise have no knowledge of it, or are just being contrary, why should I be forced to agree with them?
And when they go on the attack to prove that their misguided concept is correct, yeah - I can understand why someone would say the heck with it.
schlimmI recall a member who made a rather dramatic exit (a farewell forever style departure, deleting all his posts) only to return a month later.
"I remember it well" as the lyrics to an old song once said. New name, same old drivel.
Norm
schlimm Euclid This thread seems to be the county seat of innuendo. Nobody is ever driven off of a forum by other members. It is impossible. Everyone has a choice as to whether to stay or leave. Being driven off this forum is always an injury claimed by someone still on the forum in reference to someone who has left. There is no way that the charge can be refuted except by the person who was allegedly driven off, and that person is not available to testify as to why they left. It is a means of guilt tripping individuals still on the forum by accusing them of injuring the entire forum by depriving it of virtuous members. I recall a member who made a rather dramatic exit (a farewell forever style departure, deleting all his posts) only to return a month later.
Who are you referring to? I don't recall anyone who fits that description. Please clarify.
I know this is off topic but here's a link to a cool video of a Vintage Bucyrus-Erie 22 B power shovel loading an old Euclid off road rock truck:
https://youtu.be/l9cJQYiT2bs
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
carnej1I know this is off topic but here's a link to a coll video of a Vintage Bucyrus-Erie 22 B power shovel loading an old Euclid off road rock truck:
Couldn't have said it better, but it'll go over someone's head. Reading comprehension class begins in five minutes.
Couldn't you have liked rainbow flags and unicorns instead?
Here is an interesting site:
http://divco.org/
And there is always the Heil Dump Truck:
http://www.heil.com/
http://www.cherokeetruck.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/GDOT-Heil-South-Dump-1.jpg
F3A And there is always the Heil Dump Truck: http://www.heil.com/ http://www.cherokeetruck.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/GDOT-Heil-South-Dump-1.jpg
1st link = Garbage truck
I didn't mean to say that the Enterprise should be hauling garbage, I meant to say that it should be hauled away as garbage.
dknelson Before I retired I practiced corporate law for 36 years. On a regular basis I dealt with those whose actual paid occupation was to goad and provoke and insult and do everything and anything possible in the hopes that I would react in an ill-advised manner. I would also say that I dealt every day with highly skilled individuals whose job it was to zealously advance the interests of their clients, so very real and very intense confrontation and heated argument was on the agenda every day. The worst of the annoying posters and trolls on the internet including these Forums were and are amateurs compared to the folks I refer to. I cannot imagine anyone's postings here getting to me to the extent I would take my bat and ball and go home. Having said that, please don't try! Dave Nelson
Before I retired I practiced corporate law for 36 years. On a regular basis I dealt with those whose actual paid occupation was to goad and provoke and insult and do
everything and anything possible in the hopes that I would react in an ill-advised manner. I would also say that I dealt every day with highly skilled individuals
whose job it was to zealously advance the interests of their clients, so very real and very intense confrontation and heated argument was on the agenda every day.
The worst of the annoying posters and trolls on the internet including these Forums were and are amateurs compared to the folks I refer to. I cannot imagine anyone's
postings here getting to me to the extent I would take my bat and ball and go home.
Were the people paid to goad and provoke and insult you the same as the highly skilled people who zealously advanced their clients' interests?
I assume when you say 'amateur' you mean something other than 'paid' vs 'unpaid'. One hopes that the annoying posters and trolls here don't get paid for what they do.
Conspiracy theorists might try to say that some trolls are paid. Isn't it possible the 'I fear they'll drive decent folks away' people are wrong, and some high priced internet consultant has figured that sites with troll controversy get more hits than those with staid, polite, intelligent discussions? Does reality TV get more viewers than PBS?
gardendance
I'm more bothered when I comment to tell folks that they don't bother me and get a response directed to me that says I'm an idiot.
Nobody has to post here. I've posted here for a long time because I wanted to and found it enjoyable. It's not as fun anymore and I don't participate like I used to.
I know you don't care, and maybe nobody else on here cares either. So be it. It's no skin off my back to stop contributing. I'm sure the forum will be better off.
I'm not going to bother if this thing is just another facebook-esque forum with such thought-provoking posts like "I shoudn't drink and post" and other crap that has nothing to do with the forum subject at hand. Defend it all you want, I don't care. So maybe in the end his posts are going to just drive me away. Oh well.
I generally do take my own advice, I get slightly bothered, I ignore the posts, then pretty much forget about them. As I've tried to mention already, I did let myself get bothered enough in the past to leave one website, of course to its great loss an detriment, I'm sure I really hurt them, but trains.com's not much different from that other site, so 'take my ball and go home' doesn't work for me. I don't think I'm letting the "you're an idiot" posts bother me much, just more than any of Chessicat's posts, or anyone else whose posts are not actual insults.
Once again though you've mentioned 'defend' him. I don't think I'm defending him. I've said it before, I don't like him. I didn't like him much before I met him, I like him far less since I've met him. I just don't think his irritation could lead to the decent poster dearth you fear, but I'm aksing for others' opinions about if they feel it would make them leave.
Euclid Nobody is ever driven off of a forum by other members. It is impossible. Everyone has a choice as to whether to stay or leave.
Nobody is ever driven off of a forum by other members. It is impossible. Everyone has a choice as to whether to stay or leave.
I feel you're splitting hairs, there's no diffence between "I decided not to participate because I didn't like this other guy's posts" and "this other guy's posts made me quit".
gardendance Euclid Nobody is ever driven off of a forum by other members. It is impossible. Everyone has a choice as to whether to stay or leave.
Euclid I have always liked dozers and other earthmoving equipment. Here is a Euclid dozer (built by GM Euclid Division) powered by two GM 671, 2-cycle diesel engines with Roots blowers. It was a pretty futuristic looking for a dozer, but this was from the 1950s when the world wanted to be “modern.” Designers always say they want cars to look like they are moving when they are standing still. I always felt that bulldozers should look like they are standing sill when they are moving. But this Euclid model looks amazingly aerodynamic for a dozer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFkNyq65v7U But I chose the names here of Euclid and Bucyrus not on the basis of their connection to equipment, but just because they sound like they could be a first name or a last name. They are good names for cats (felines.)
gardendanceCan you be clearer, what is it that you think was the trollish comment,
I am quite certain that the individual I am speaking of knows full well that I was talking about them. If you do NOT have 100% certainty that I was talking about you, then there is a very good chance that I was talking about someone else.
Convicted one, I wasn't asking just for me, but for everyone else's educamation as well. Won't you think of the children?
from the indecent thread http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252512.aspx?page=2
Murphy Siding gardendance M636C Let's just not use apostrophes in thread titles until the forum software can cope with it... It's just tough to remember not to use proper punctuation, especially when it looks fine when composing, and the bad effect only manifests after submitting the post, and then it's too late to fix it. I don't know how to change a title after the thread's created. Edit button, lower right hand corner of your post will do the trick.
M636C
Let's just not use apostrophes in thread titles until the forum software can cope with it...
It's just tough to remember not to use proper punctuation, especially when it looks fine when composing, and the bad effect only manifests after submitting the post, and then it's too late to fix it. I don't know how to change a title after the thread's created.
Edit button, lower right hand corner of your post will do the trick.
Mookie That's it? We have these vastly interesting postings going on and that's all you can add? Sigh
That's it? We have these vastly interesting postings going on and that's all you can add? Sigh
Murphy, don't let Mookie upset you so much that you go away. I'm grateful that you gave me such short neck high forehead advice. It's always humbling to learn such a simple solution that I should have figured out myself.
I'm not so grateful that I want to increase your thread's reply count. The whose thread's more popular race is still on.
gardendance I'm grateful that you gave me such short neck high forehead advice. It's always humbling to learn such a simple solution that I should have figured out myself.
If it's that simple, why is it that as of 11:00 Central this morning you still haven't fixed it?
What's sad is that threads like this will go on for weeks, while many discussions on railroad subjects die an untimely death...
Wizlish gardendance I'm grateful that you gave me such short neck high forehead advice. It's always humbling to learn such a simple solution that I should have figured out myself. If it's that simple, why is it that as of 11:00 Central this morning you still haven't fixed it?
it looks fixed on my screen and looked fixed around 9am eastern time, "decent posters, will the posts of another poster drive you away?"
tree68 What's sad is that threads like this will go on for weeks, while many discussions on railroad subjects die an untimely death...
What do you consider an untimely death? The only thing I can think is untimely is if someone asks a question and gets no answer. On the other hand if someone makes a statement that shouldn't in itself require a response. For example, if a post says "I think Amtrak is the best national passenger railway system the US has" I see nothing wrong with that being the last post in the thread.
If you feel a thread has met an untimely death, what stops you from adding another post to it?
ChessieCat123 I know what the problem is- A certain person and persons had a personality conflict with me off forum at train club that I was part of and is obssesed with getting back at me even though I have not been active at that club for a # of years but continues to bad mouth me at other railroad clubs even to the point of writing letters and making harrasing phone calls to my job and college. "Its like the you will never work on Broadway again"-- Well this staulker wants to make sure that I never get involved with orgonized railfanning again. I know who he is and am considering legal options.
I know what the problem is- A certain person and persons had a personality conflict with me off forum at train club that I was part of and is obssesed with getting back at me even though I have not been active at that club for a # of years but continues to bad mouth me at other railroad clubs even to the point of writing letters and making harrasing phone calls to my job and college. "Its like the you will never work on Broadway again"-- Well this staulker wants to make sure that I never get involved with orgonized railfanning again. I know who he is and am considering legal options.
Ray, I'm sure your problem goes far beyond any single off forum personality conflict. I also met you and I had several personality conflicts even before I met, through our emails and phone calls, and several more the day we met.
I've had posts in this thread asking why I defend you. I don't think I defend you, I think I've criticized you, but at the same time have questioned why other people have tried to claim that you drive forum users away. You've certainly driven me away from ever wanting to meet you or communicate off forum again, but you in no way influence my desire to stay in this forum.
I would have defended your right to post what you wanted, up till when you got your login suspended. I do not defend you having recreated several other logins to resurrect yourself after the administrators suspended you. But your taking advantage of this loophole also does not rise to such an irritation level that it influences my desire to stay in this forum.
gardendanceit looks fixed on my screen and looked fixed around 9am eastern time, "decent posters, will the posts of another poster drive you away?"
It's the other one, the 'indecent' one, that's uncorrected. In fact, as I write this, it still shows the deflicted code. i'd have PMed you if I had thought about it first.
... "decent posters, will the posts of another poster drive you away?"
Posthaste
the indecent thread is not mine, I'm not in charge of its title.
gardendancethe indecent thread is not mine, I'm not in charge of its title.
Lo and behold! so it ain't. PM sent appropriately. Sorry.
I seem to remember that in the last year or two there were some complaints that the moderators were too quick to lock or delete threads that had uncivil or off-topic content. Be careful what you wish for.
I wished for a unicorn that poops ice cream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlEovr29KBU only to find out it was a Squatty Potty commercial.
gardendance I wished for a unicorn that poops ice cream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlEovr29KBU only to find out it was a Squatty Potty commercial.
With God as my witness I thought turkeys could fly.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Would you be comfortable contemplating Squatty Body Marvin on a regular potty?
This is not the first time I've mentioned it in a railroad related forum, but decades ago I shared a swimming pool with Hugh Jenkins, a Reading-Conrail-Septa engineer. I was both repelled and enthralled by the canvas upon which they were presented and the many railroad tatoos he had.
Somehow I got over my repulsion, and just as the indecent posts don't stop me from participating in trains.com, the many endangered marine mammals I still see at public swimming areas do not prevent me from going swimming.
So now we have yet another of the so-called "humor" threads? This is worse than the Eleanor one started by the late Murray.
Now that I've discovered how to change my thread's title I can't stop. Gentle readers, in case you can't keep track, it was
"decent posters, will another poster's posts drive you away?"
someone asked if we could remove the apostrophe, since trains.com displays apostrophes as &something when in the title, someone nicely mentioned how to do it, I changed it to
"decent posters, will the posts of another poster drive you away?"
and the thank you we got was that we had fixed the apostrophe catastrophe. I don't care who you are, that's funny, and makes both of these threads worth the electrons they waste.
Now since my only purpose is to keep Schlimm happy, I've edited the title so it definitely warns folks that this is so called humor.
Thank you too for mentioning Murray. I was trying to remember who that was, and kept thinking of Murphy Siding. If I remember correctly the last we saw of Murray was
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/247216.aspx Amtrak Wreck in Philadelphia
Which I remember Murray started, which now has all his posts listed as 'anonymous'. We have no way to tell if Murray asked the moderators to remove his name, or if they did it for their own reasons. Or do we? Does anybody know the real scoop? Murray certainly made enough farewells that I can believe he might be a poster who got driven away.
Euclid gardendance Euclid Nobody is ever driven off of a forum by other members. It is impossible. Everyone has a choice as to whether to stay or leave. Those hairs do split clearly if you think about it. There is no difference between your two examples of explanations for leaving the forum, yet neither one amounts to be “driven off” the forum. The poster in your example decided by his/her own free will to leave the forum no matter what he/she cites as the reason. If you have the power to stay, you cannot be driven off.
That's like saying if someone's house is on fire since they have the power to stay inside and die the fire can't drive them off. As I reread the Amtrak Wreck in Philadelphia thread I see a few posts I made where I said I'm not required to say if I'm going to leave, it's my choice. Just because I feel I can make the choice, and I feel nobody else can force me, doesn't mean that I expect everybody else to feel the same way. There may be others who get driven away, and it's not my place to say if their feelings aren't valid.
Euclid, as I reread your quoted post I realize I forgot to accuse you of expressing opinion as fact.
ACYTrue story: When I was about 12 years old, the N&W was still operating steam locomotives. My friends and I were building a model railroad. As we worked, someone brought up the N&W and called it the North Fork & Western. He was living a rather sheltered life and had never heard of Norfolk, Virginia. I corrected him, and I was promptly told that there was no such place as Norfolk, that Norfolk was a stupid and meaningless name, and I was absolutely wrong. To prove his point, he called for a vote. Nobody else in the group had heard of Norfolk either, so Norfolk was voted down and the N&W became the North Fork & Western.
.
Most of us indicated we could ignore the subject of this thread. However, he has taken to posting on almost every current thread making that increasingly difficult. How much longer does this have to go on? He's destroying whatever enjoyment was left of these forums on his way to oblivion.
I assume you mean ChessieCat123. I don't read every thread, but of the threads I do read, for example this one he's posted 5 times, and in its evil twin the indecent thread he hasn't posted at all. I think you're exaggerating when you say "he has taken to posting on almost every current thread" Please give some examples.
Also are you trying to say that he'll drive you away?
2 things are evident:
I spend too much time on the internet. This time I could have spent better watching the insides of my eyelids.
Schlimm, you are DEFINITELY exaggerating when you say ChessieCat123 posts on almost every current thread.
I looked at the last 5 pages of EVERY thread on general discussion's 1st page, and found only 1 thread that ChessieCat123 didn't originate in which he made any post.
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/130415.aspx?page=2 Who names control points? 1 post, which I don't consider out of line "Which came first the control point name or the town name?" these other threads have none of ChessieCat123's posts in their most recent 5 pages
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/231186.aspx?page=38 Semi-official Rochelle webcam discussion thread http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252603.aspx What would it take? http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/214329.aspx?page=12 Perris Valley Line Updates (w/ Photos) http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252646.aspx Precision Scheduled Railroading http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/251689.aspx?page=5 Canadian Pacific Norfolk Southern Merger http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/250453.aspx?page=6 Chatterbox Fall 2015 http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252575.aspx NS rejects CP bid http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252610.aspx NCDOT and UNC Charlotte Announce Rail Workforce Assessment Study http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252573.aspx China Lands Major Kenya Rail Contract http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252588.aspx ? again.... http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/102777.aspx?page=16 Cajon Pass Triple-Tracking Updates (Plus Barstow-Daggett) http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/252399/2820236.aspx#2820236 Former GM Sound Expert Editorial on the VW Debacle http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252222.aspx Thoughts on eliminating the Chicago bottleneck http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252228.aspx Could have free-enterprise freight railroads survived without dieselization? http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/148958.aspx?page=14 The new and (not very) improved humor thread http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/248019.aspx Hyperloop http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252554.aspx Boston -- New York NEC Questions http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252496.aspx NS rail lines to become scrap and real estate holdings if CP takes over. http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/68570.aspx Litchfield and Madison Railway http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/205973.aspx?page=6#2819582 On This Day in Railroad History I only checked the last page on this one, since prior pages' posts were long before http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/252552.aspx Diamonds Under The Lights
See what happens when you try to post when you're sleepy? I should have just clicked his profile. Other than the aforementioned innoffensive "Who names control points" post, http://cs.trains.com/members/chessiecat123/default.aspx says the most recent time he posted IN SOMEONE ELSE'S THREAD was 6 days ago.
Your posts are much akin to his.
Why Schlimm, that's the nicest thing anyone's said about me for ages. It almost helps to keep from driving me away.
Seriously though, where are ANY examples to support your contention that ChessieCat123 "has taken to posting on almost every current thread"?
gardendancecould you please let us know if you're on the verge of getting driven away?
I considered leaving once, but I realized that would be giving some guys a break who don't deserve one, so I stayed - just for them.
gardendance Euclid gardendance Euclid Nobody is ever driven off of a forum by other members. It is impossible. Everyone has a choice as to whether to stay or leave. Those hairs do split clearly if you think about it. There is no difference between your two examples of explanations for leaving the forum, yet neither one amounts to be “driven off” the forum. The poster in your example decided by his/her own free will to leave the forum no matter what he/she cites as the reason. If you have the power to stay, you cannot be driven off. That's like saying if someone's house is on fire since they have the power to stay inside and die the fire can't drive them off. As I reread the Amtrak Wreck in Philadelphia thread I see a few posts I made where I said I'm not required to say if I'm going to leave, it's my choice. Just because I feel I can make the choice, and I feel nobody else can force me, doesn't mean that I expect everybody else to feel the same way. There may be others who get driven away, and it's not my place to say if their feelings aren't valid. Euclid, as I reread your quoted post I realize I forgot to accuse you of expressing opinion as fact.
Don't forget, if one person in particular posts things not to your liking, you can always brand them as a "troll" hopefully convincing yourself you are superior to them.
If MULTIPLE people post things not to your liking, you can always declare "sock puppet" and not feel quite so outnumbered.
But I am superior to you. I still love ya, though.
Is sock puppet an insult? Whenever I hear it I think of some cute fluffy cuddly thing I want to hug.
EuclidI have to agree that there is no absolute way of looking at this matter of being driven off. On one hand, “driven off” implies something outside of the driven doing the driving. But any person is equally capable of driving themselves off if they create the perception of an external driver in their own mind. Ultimately, that is the way reality works anyway. But if person “A” leaves because they decide to believe they are being driven off by person “B”, did person B really drive them off, or did person “A” simply drive off on their own and blame it on person “B”? Therefore, when I say you can’t be driven off if you have the power to stay, that is true unless you don’t believe that you have the power to stay.
Circular logic carried to it's highest form of perfection.
Norm48327 Euclid I have to agree that there is no absolute way of looking at this matter of being driven off. On one hand, “driven off” implies something outside of the driven doing the driving. But any person is equally capable of driving themselves off if they create the perception of an external driver in their own mind. Ultimately, that is the way reality works anyway. But if person “A” leaves because they decide to believe they are being driven off by person “B”, did person B really drive them off, or did person “A” simply drive off on their own and blame it on person “B”? Therefore, when I say you can’t be driven off if you have the power to stay, that is true unless you don’t believe that you have the power to stay. Circular logic carried to it's highest form of perfection.
Euclid I have to agree that there is no absolute way of looking at this matter of being driven off. On one hand, “driven off” implies something outside of the driven doing the driving. But any person is equally capable of driving themselves off if they create the perception of an external driver in their own mind. Ultimately, that is the way reality works anyway. But if person “A” leaves because they decide to believe they are being driven off by person “B”, did person B really drive them off, or did person “A” simply drive off on their own and blame it on person “B”? Therefore, when I say you can’t be driven off if you have the power to stay, that is true unless you don’t believe that you have the power to stay.
Euclid They always say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Upon closer examination, everything is in the eye of the beholder. So being “driven off” is in the mind of the beholder. Being offended is in the mind of the offended. That is why it is hard to ban offensive speech. “Offensive” is a moving target depending on the person affected. Lots of people want to gain the empowerment that comes from being a victim. When you are a victim, you can demand redress. So they make themselves easily offended to achieve their goal of victim status. The slightest little thing will set them off. The only problem is that although they gain power, they stick themselves with the burden of being a victim. Being that it is physically impossible to for a person to drive another person off the forum, the only way a person can be driven off is to believe that he or she is being driven off by whoever they believe is persecuting them. You know what they always say: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a zebra acting like a duck.
And that's how Equestria was made.
I didn't know you are a psychology major. What university are you teaching at?
gardendanceIs sock puppet an insult?
Usually in the context it is used, yes.
It usually goes something like this: I say that the sky is blue, and you say the sky is green. If three more posters show up and side with you, I can dismiss all of them by declaring "sock puppet" and no longer have to worry about MY preferred outlook being a minority opinion. Unless it's night time, of course.
zugmann I still love ya, though.
That's what keeps me coming back.
Kinky.
http://www.wideopencountry.com/learn-peel-hard-boiled-eggs-without-even-trying/?utm_content=buffer4ae58&utm_medium=Partner&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=TxHC
so called humor: decent posters, will the posts of another poster drive you away?.
BigJim so called humor: decent posters, will the posts of another poster drive you away?. No, but it is stupid posts like this ["Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report] that make me shake my head and make me wonder why people who are here just to stir up things up are allowed to post to this forum.Drive me away? No, but, I have found it useless to try to reply to a rock. So, if something intelligent comes up that I thing I might be able to add to, I will do so.
No, but it is stupid posts like this ["Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report] that make me shake my head and make me wonder why people who are here just to stir up things up are allowed to post to this forum.Drive me away? No, but, I have found it useless to try to reply to a rock. So, if something intelligent comes up that I thing I might be able to add to, I will do so.
Exactly. Folks are staying away. It is 1:17pm CST and so far today (since 6 am) there are only six posts on the general forum.
schlimm BigJim so called humor: decent posters, will the posts of another poster drive you away?. No, but it is stupid posts like this ["Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report] that make me shake my head and make me wonder why people who are here just to stir up things up are allowed to post to this forum.Drive me away? No, but, I have found it useless to try to reply to a rock. So, if something intelligent comes up that I thing I might be able to add to, I will do so. Exactly. Folks are staying away. It is 1:17pm CST and so far today (since 6 am) there are only six posts on the general forum.
schlimmExactly. Folks are staying away. It is 1:17pm CST and so far today (since 6 am) there are only six posts on the general forum.
Well, some of us have other things to do than sit in front of a computer all day.
EuclidMaybe they conclude that this is not the place for serious discussion. Or maybe they don’t like a format where some people claim that their credentials mean they can’t be wrong in a debate; and that gives them the right to insult people who disagree with them.
Coming from someone who refuses to show he has ever worked in the industry but claims he has experience that statement is a slap in the face of those who do work there and have knowledge of what works and what doesn't.
That said, I admit to having no inside knowledge but I'm willing to learn from those who do.
Flame suit is on.
Norm,
If you have no inside knowledge, but are willing to learn, how do you know who to believe as you go about your learning?
EuclidIn this discussion about members being “driven off” the forum, the general presumption is that they are driven off because others do not agree with them in discussions. What about those who might be driven off because they can’t deal with what they perceive as inanity? Maybe they conclude that this is not the place for serious discussion. Or maybe they don’t like a format where some people claim that their credentials mean they can’t be wrong in a debate; and that gives them the right to insult people who disagree with them. And besides the people who are driven off, how many people decide not to join the forum because of what they see here? I’ll bet that is a larger number than the number of people leaving.
I don't believe that people are "driven off" by folks don't agree with them.
I think the inanity factor is much larger. Sometimes the old meme "cat-like typing detected" is more appropriate. All too often, these folks don't seem to get the message when the fallacy of their points is shown - they just keep on keeping on.
And it is hard to take some posters seriously when an acknowledged expert in a field, as proven by the body of knowledge they've brought to the forum over time, is dismissed by a poster whose credentials might be that they've been reading railroad magazines for a bunch of years (or less).
Or when they dismiss out-of-hand a proven (documented) fact.
Euclid Norm, If you have no inside knowledge, but are willing to learn, how do you know who to believe as you go about your learning?
Because it is no major task to decipher who knows of what they speak and those who don't.
You have claimed in the past to have experience but refuse to show any credentials. Therefore, your credibility is in serious doubt.
tree68 Euclid In this discussion about members being “driven off” the forum, the general presumption is that they are driven off because others do not agree with them in discussions. What about those who might be driven off because they can’t deal with what they perceive as inanity? Maybe they conclude that this is not the place for serious discussion. Or maybe they don’t like a format where some people claim that their credentials mean they can’t be wrong in a debate; and that gives them the right to insult people who disagree with them. And besides the people who are driven off, how many people decide not to join the forum because of what they see here? I’ll bet that is a larger number than the number of people leaving. I don't believe that people are "driven off" by folks don't agree with them. I think the inanity factor is much larger. Sometimes the old meme "cat-like typing detected" is more appropriate. All too often, these folks don't seem to get the message when the fallacy of their points is shown - they just keep on keeping on. And it is hard to take some posters seriously when an acknowledged expert in a field, as proven by the body of knowledge they've brought to the forum over time, is dismissed by a poster whose credentials might be that they've been reading railroad magazines for a bunch of years (or less). Or when they dismiss out-of-hand a proven (documented) fact.
Euclid In this discussion about members being “driven off” the forum, the general presumption is that they are driven off because others do not agree with them in discussions. What about those who might be driven off because they can’t deal with what they perceive as inanity? Maybe they conclude that this is not the place for serious discussion. Or maybe they don’t like a format where some people claim that their credentials mean they can’t be wrong in a debate; and that gives them the right to insult people who disagree with them. And besides the people who are driven off, how many people decide not to join the forum because of what they see here? I’ll bet that is a larger number than the number of people leaving.
tree68 ........I think the inanity factor is much larger......
........I think the inanity factor is much larger......
Euclid tree68 Euclid In this discussion about members being “driven off” the forum, the general presumption is that they are driven off because others do not agree with them in discussions. What about those who might be driven off because they can’t deal with what they perceive as inanity? Maybe they conclude that this is not the place for serious discussion. Or maybe they don’t like a format where some people claim that their credentials mean they can’t be wrong in a debate; and that gives them the right to insult people who disagree with them. And besides the people who are driven off, how many people decide not to join the forum because of what they see here? I’ll bet that is a larger number than the number of people leaving. I don't believe that people are "driven off" by folks don't agree with them. I think the inanity factor is much larger. Sometimes the old meme "cat-like typing detected" is more appropriate. All too often, these folks don't seem to get the message when the fallacy of their points is shown - they just keep on keeping on. And it is hard to take some posters seriously when an acknowledged expert in a field, as proven by the body of knowledge they've brought to the forum over time, is dismissed by a poster whose credentials might be that they've been reading railroad magazines for a bunch of years (or less). Or when they dismiss out-of-hand a proven (documented) fact. What is the difference between "folks who don't agree" and folks who "don't seem to get the message when the fallacy of their points is shown”? You say the former are not driving people away, but the latter are. Give me an example, of when an acknowledged expert in a field, as proven by the body of knowledge they've brought to the forum over time, was dismissed by a poster whose credentials might be that they've been reading railroad magazines for a bunch of years (or less). Or when they dismiss out-of-hand a proven (documented) fact.
Outstanding!
23 17 46 11
EuclidWhat is the difference between "folks who don't agree" and folks who "don't seem to get the message when the fallacy of their points is shown”? You say the former are not driving people away, but the latter are.
If person A disagrees with the opinion of person B, that's one thing. Each is entitled to their opinion. If someone leaves because of it, it's their loss.
If person A insists that stop signs are star-shaped and green and won't change their mind when it's proven that stop signs are red and octogonal, continuing to argue otherwise, that's stupid.
EuclidGive me an example,
Sorry, I don't keep a scorecard...
I've been on this forum for quite a few years, though.
Murphy SidingInanity or insanity?
The latter. About two waves short of a shipwreck.
edblysardOf all people...you can seriously ask that? Outstanding!
Of course. Don't you know he's never wrong?
Caution: sarcasm intended.
I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'.
schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'.
It pays to be crazy. It keeps you from going insane.
EuclidThis thread seems to be the county seat of innuendo.
Not in my endo you don't!!
BigJimNo, but it is stupid posts like this ["Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report] that make me shake my head and make me wonder why people who are here just to stir up things up are allowed to post to this forum.
I would like to encourage you to look at the "views" tally for the thread in question, and compare it to the equivalent value to more serious threads that have been on the board longer. CLEARLY even though this thread might not meet YOUR approval, it certainly must appeal to others.
Try to take yourself out of the center of the universe for a moment and realize that no one made you "grand dragon of allowable content". Others very well may have interests that do not run parallel to yours. That DOES NOT mean you get to sanction what is relevant.
tree68Or when they dismiss out-of-hand a proven (documented) fact.
Sometimes "facts" are embedded in a pool of murk. Sometimes facts are cherry picked and are not necessarily representative of the entire picture. Both can lead to arguments that are non-persuasive. Are we expected to yield to non-persuasive arguments simply because their source is a supposed authority?
Convicted One BigJim No, but it is stupid posts like this ["Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report] that make me shake my head and make me wonder why people who are here just to stir up things up are allowed to post to this forum. Try to take yourself out of the center of the universe for a moment and realize that no one made you "grand dragon of allowable content". Others very well may have interests that do not run parallel to yours. That DOES NOT mean you get to sanction what is relevant.
BigJim No, but it is stupid posts like this ["Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report] that make me shake my head and make me wonder why people who are here just to stir up things up are allowed to post to this forum.
Some people here often make themselves "grand dragons of allowable content." They will complain when people with insufficient credentials question their wisdom. And if that doesn't work, then they will trot out their dead horse argument.
EuclidAnd if that doesn't work, then they will trot out their dead horse argument.
Or play the "NIMBY" card. And when it comes right down to it, what makes our resident railroad "experts" think they know so much more about NIMBYism than genuine NIMBYS do?
Convicted OneI would like to encourage you to look at the "views" tally for the thread in question, and compare it to the equivalent value to more serious threads that have been on the board longer. CLEARLY even though this thread might not meet YOUR approval, it certainly must appeal to others.
Alas, that's usually the case - threads on minutiae, often only periphally related to railroading (if at all), frequently have long runs. And that's because it takes no knowledge of railroading to contribute.
A technical discussion will only last as long as there are questions or comments on the topic at hand. And most folks will recognize and respect the information provided by those who deal with the topic on a regular basis. And if you tell me that the air pressure in the brake line is what holds the brake shoes off the wheels, I'm going to correct you.
tree68that's because it takes no knowledge of railroading to contribute.
Convicted One tree68 that's because it takes no knowledge of railroading to contribute.
tree68 that's because it takes no knowledge of railroading to contribute.
schlimm Most of us indicated we could ignore the subject of this thread. However, he has taken to posting on almost every current thread making that increasingly difficult. How much longer does this have to go on? He's destroying whatever enjoyment was left of these forums on his way to oblivion.
gardendance Seriously though, where are ANY examples to support your contention that ChessieCat123 "has taken to posting on almost every current thread"?
Schlimm, that wasn't a rhetorical question. You said that the problem was "HE" puts his comments into almost every thread. I assumed you meant chessiecat123, and presented evidence that shows he hasn't put his comments into every thread, but rather originates a lot of threads. Do you still believe he puts his comments inot every thread, and do you have any statistics to back that up, or are you willing to admit that there's not much evidence to support your opinion?
Or are you perhaps talking about someone else besides chessiecat?
BigJim No, but it is stupid posts like this ["Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report] that make me shake my head and make me wonder why people who are here just to stir up things up are allowed to post to this forum. Drive me away? No, but, I have found it useless to try to reply to a rock. So, if something intelligent comes up that I thing I might be able to add to, I will do so.
No, but it is stupid posts like this ["Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report] that make me shake my head and make me wonder why people who are here just to stir up things up are allowed to post to this forum.
Drive me away? No, but, I have found it useless to try to reply to a rock. So, if something intelligent comes up that I thing I might be able to add to, I will do so.
I remember reading the first few posts in "Bomb Trains", and didn't find anything that interested me, but also didn't find anything in the posts that was out of line. It just seemed to me to be old news, I had read articles like it years ago. Your post raised my interest again, I reread the thread, but again don't see anything out of line in the thread. I do agree that the article to which it refers is stupid, but not the thread's discusion of the topic. Can you please be specific, what about the thread do you feel is stupid?
You remind me of an important point: not only must the topic be intelligent, but I must feel that I have something to contribute. There are many topics I read, but don't reply, because I feel I have nothing to contribute. That doesn't make the topics any less valid or worth peoples' attention, despite jokes people like me make that the only true measures of a thread's success are its reply and view counts.
Norm48327 schlimm Exactly. Folks are staying away. It is 1:17pm CST and so far today (since 6 am) there are only six posts on the general forum. Well, some of us have other things to do than sit in front of a computer all day.
schlimm Exactly. Folks are staying away. It is 1:17pm CST and so far today (since 6 am) there are only six posts on the general forum.
Norm, you beat me to it. We hates you, we hates you forever, filthy Bagginses.
tree68 What's missing is the drama. And nobody misses it at all.
What's missing is the drama. And nobody misses it at all.
Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you?
You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you?
In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you?
This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring.
schlimm Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you? In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you? This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring.
schlimmThis has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring.
Then, if I may ask, why are you even reading it, much less contributing to the boredom? Bored people usually walk away.
gardendanceBigJim No, but it is stupid posts like this ["Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report] that make me shake my head and make me wonder why people who are here just to stir up things up are allowed to post to this forum. Drive me away? No, but, I have found it useless to try to reply to a rock. So, if something intelligent comes up that I thing I might be able to add to, I will do so. I remember reading the first few posts in "Bomb Trains", and didn't find anything that interested me, but also didn't find anything in the posts that was out of line. It just seemed to me to be old news, I had read articles like it years ago. Your post raised my interest again, I reread the thread, but again don't see anything out of line in the thread. I do agree that the article to which it refers is stupid, but not the thread's discusion of the topic. Can you please be specific, what about the thread do you feel is stupid?
Norm48327 schlimm This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. Then, if I may ask, why are you even reading it, much less contributing to the boredom? Bored people usually walk away.
schlimm This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring.
Perhaps he has nothing else to do during the day.
Murphy Siding schlimm Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you? In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you? This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. I believe you've lost your sense of humor. Perhaps you could ask Santy Clause for a new one?Wiki? Google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain
I believe you've lost your sense of humor. Perhaps you could ask Santy Clause for a new one?Wiki? Google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Sy6oiJbEk
BigJim
Within the context of which thread? Are you talking about this thread, which I started because another thread had just about the same statement you made, why are some people allowed to post? Regardless of how you feel about the posters, what solution can you provide that would prevent them from posting? It's pretty obvious that each time chessiecat123 has had one of his logins suspended he's simply created another one. I can't imagine any method, on a free website, that would do anything more than slow someone down very slightly who's determined to post what they want.
Or are you talking about "Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report" That was not one of chessiecat123's. As I mentioned above, I don't see anything wrong with the thread. What is it that makes you feel it's a stupid thread, or that the poster is " here just to stir up things up", and so is worthy of getting the poster banned?
You obviously see something wrong with either this thread, in which you're participating, or in the "bomb train" thread, but whatever it is I can't see it.
Norm48327 schlimm This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. Then, if I may ask, why are you even reading it, much less contributing to the boredom? Bored people usually walk away. Hmm
schlimm
Then, if I may ask, why are you even reading it, much less contributing to the boredom? Bored people usually walk away. Hmm
Norm, you did it again, took the words out of my mouth. When will you learn that I must originate everything?
Schlimm, you have still not answered my question about how you got your opinion that chessiecat123 is putting his comments into other peoples' threads. Although I try to be funny once in a while, I also have some serious questions as well, and this is one of them. The statistics that I looked at would support a contention that he makes lots of his own threads, not that he hijacks other peoples' threads. You felt strongly enough that he does hijack other peoples' threads to post it, so what makes you feel this way?
gardendancewhatever it is I can't see it.
Kettle? Pot?
gardendanceSchlimm, you have still not answered my question about how you got your opinion that chessiecat123 is putting his comments into other peoples' threads. Although I try to be funny once in a while, I also have some serious questions as well, and this is one of them. The statistics that I looked at would support a contention that he makes lots of his own threads, not that he hijacks other peoples' threads. You felt strongly enough that he does hijack other peoples' threads to post it, so what makes you feel this way?
Keep waiting, then.
F3A Murphy Siding schlimm Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you? In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you? This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. I believe you've lost your sense of humor. Perhaps you could ask Santy Clause for a new one?Wiki? Google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Sy6oiJbEk
From this point onward, I will not respond to your posts.
schlimm F3A Murphy Siding schlimm Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you? In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you? This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. I believe you've lost your sense of humor. Perhaps you could ask Santy Clause for a new one?Wiki? Google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Sy6oiJbEk From this point onward, I will not respond to your posts.
Well, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.
BigJim gardendance whatever it is I can't see it. Then I hope you can see the Delair Bridge before you crash into it.
gardendance whatever it is I can't see it.
Then I hope you can see the Delair Bridge before you crash into it.
I think you should say before I crash into the bridge AGAIN.
schlimm gardendance Schlimm, you have still not answered my question about how you got your opinion that chessiecat123 is putting his comments into other peoples' threads. Although I try to be funny once in a while, I also have some serious questions as well, and this is one of them. The statistics that I looked at would support a contention that he makes lots of his own threads, not that he hijacks other peoples' threads. You felt strongly enough that he does hijack other peoples' threads to post it, so what makes you feel this way? Keep waiting, then.
gardendance Schlimm, you have still not answered my question about how you got your opinion that chessiecat123 is putting his comments into other peoples' threads. Although I try to be funny once in a while, I also have some serious questions as well, and this is one of them. The statistics that I looked at would support a contention that he makes lots of his own threads, not that he hijacks other peoples' threads. You felt strongly enough that he does hijack other peoples' threads to post it, so what makes you feel this way?
There's no need for me to wait anymore. I conclude that your post accusing chessiecat123 of hijacking other peoples' threads was a lie, and I'm willing to bet that any reasonable person would conclude the same way.
nothing
gardendanceThere's no need for me to wait anymore. I conclude that your post accusing chessiecat123 of hijacking other peoples' threads was a lie, and I'm willing to bet that any reasonable person would conclude the same way.
Your post is a total distortion fabrication of my comment. And what I said was only in the same sense of what several others also were saying [about Ray]. Here was my post:
Where is the word "hijacking" above? "Almost every" is hardly a precise count. When I posted this, however, many threads on the various forums showed the last comment was his, and often the comment was a typical troll comment. Some comments he makes are good contributions, but a significant number are straight out of the troller's manual.
You befriended Ray, defended his trolling and even took him for a ride on a boat - all your privilege and free choice. Don't expect everyone to share your opinion.
The word hijacking appears in my reply to you. It's my interpretation of your phrase "Almost every". Within a few hours of your having posted that I checked, found that he had posted in ONLY 1 thread within the prior week that he hadn't originated, and posted my findings, which completely disagree with your unsubstantiated comment that "many threads on the various forums showed the last comment was his". "Almost every" may be an imprecise comment, but it's considerably more than 1.
I befriended Ray, a mistake I will not make again. I am not defending Ray's or anyone else's trolling. I am trying to defend the truth, and point out this instance where you lied and are rephrasing your lie.
schlimmFrom this point onward, I will not respond to your posts.
He'll be "such a sad case, so broken-hearted".
gardendance The word hijacking appears in my reply to you. It's my interpretation of your phrase "Almost every". Within a few hours of your having posted that I checked, found that he had posted in ONLY 1 thread within the prior week that he hadn't originated, and posted my findings, which completely disagree with your unsubstantiated comment that "many threads on the various forums showed the last comment was his". "Almost every" may be an imprecise comment, but it's considerably more than 1. I befriended Ray, a mistake I will not make again. I am not defending Ray's or anyone else's trolling. I am trying to defend the truth, and point out this instance where you lied and are rephrasing your lie.
I am certainly not going to respond in the future to someone who totallly distorts reality for his own purposes and then has the brass to call that person a liar.
tree68Not necessarily - the fire forums I'm on seem to do pretty well.
Yes, but you are a fireman, correct? So if the trade "insiders" rule that roost, and you are an insider, it really isn't much of a surprise that you see no problem with that set up.
I really haven't seen much indication from Kalmbach that their desire is to have this message board become the private feifdom of a handful of industry insiders. (And that is what it looks like the argument is about at this point in time, a few wish to command the masses on the proper way to revere them) rather I suspect that it is Kalmbach's preference to utilize the message boards to make their readership feel more attached to their product(s).
In your air brake example earlier, I can understand how somone might be misinformed, but find it challenging to believe that somone would insult you for taking the time to set the record straight. Have you had that experience?
tree68And most folks will recognize and respect the information provided by those who deal with the topic on a regular basis
One thing may deserve mention at this point. Often we make our own bed.
There are a handful of people here who seem find it especially challenging to disagree with anyone without lacing their "fact stream" with personal insults, demeaning epithets, and self-serving vitriol.
And, if someone happens to decide that they just have to lace their "expertise" with condescension and abuse, I hope they will forgive me if I fail to respect their whiskers. There are a few regulars here especially fond of painting with a fairly broad brush. Listening to them rant about what idiots college graduates who happen to disagree with them are, it can be vexing to take all of their expertise seriously.
Signed: A college graduate
Convicted OneIn your air brake example earlier, I can understand how somone might be misinformed, but find it challenging to believe that somone would insult you for taking the time to set the record straight. Have you had that experience?
Isn't that what this thread is all about?
And it isn't that someone would insult me - it's that they would question the veracity, the justification, and/or the practices surrounding the topic. Ad nauseum, even in the face of repeated informed replies to their incredulity.
We can differ with respect. Recently, on another forum, an expert in his own field made what seemed to me to be a blanket statement. I responded, pointing out, from my own experience, a correction. (I think you all are aware that I have never received any pay for railroad work). He responded, acknowledging my correction.
We are friends.
tree68it's that they would question the veracity, the justification, and/or the practices surrounding the topic.
Sometimes having a mastery of your field includes a requirement that you appreciate the predicament of those not so blessed.
If one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise.
Convicted One tree68 And most folks will recognize and respect the information provided by those who deal with the topic on a regular basis One thing may deserve mention at this point. Often we make our own bed. There are a handful of people here who seem find it especially challenging to disagree with anyone without lacing their "fact stream" with personal insults, demeaning epithets, and self-serving vitriol. And, if someone happens to decide that they just have to lace their "expertise" with condescension and abuse, I hope they will forgive me if I fail to respect their whiskers. There are a few regulars here especially fond of painting with a fairly broad brush. Listening to them rant about what idiots college graduates who happen to disagree with them are, it can be vexing to take all of their expertise seriously. Signed: A college graduate
tree68 And most folks will recognize and respect the information provided by those who deal with the topic on a regular basis
I would concur. There is no room in "the marketplace of ideas" or rational discussions for invectives, euphemistic vulgarities or demeaning phrases. But it happens often on here, along with a contempt for academic achievements, as though that were self-evident.
Having a healthy tolerance for disagreement, even when you think the "other" is in error, is what most real experts try to practice. Toleration of ad hominem attacks is quite another matter.
gardendance. I do agree that the article to which it refers is stupid,
Well, at least my thread specifically addressed issues involving RAILROADING, which is a lot more than I can say about the "Mass shooting near railroad tracks" thread, which seemed to gather quite a bit of attention despite questionable context issues.
Convicted OneSometimes having a mastery of your field includes a requirement that you appreciate the predicament of those not so blessed. If one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise
Perhaps this statement should be added to the Trains Forum "Terms of Use".
Convicted OneIf one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise.
Absolutely. It's not the genuinely ignorant that are the problem. In fact, they provide an opportunity for those who do know to instruct those who don't. Everyone learns in the process.
The problem is those who can't seem to accept an answer (no matter what it is) without challenging it. They're like the little kid who keeps asking, "Why?" And then claims to be the victim...
I have no idea how frequently a discussion group participant is "driven away" from the group because of postings by another participant. However I've never ceased participating in a group because of another participant. What causes a cessation of my participation is a significant decrease in discussions that provide me with information that I consider useful. My railroad-related interests are extremely narrow; and I certainly don't expect most topics to provide me with useful information. However I pay attention to trends in topics that given groups discuss; and the more those topics shift away from my areas of interest the less likely I am to participate. It occurred to me that if I initiated more discussions, there might be more discussions that interested me. So in an effort to determine the extent to which I was causing my own problem, I looked at participation statistics for seven of the railroad-related discussion groups in which I had significantly reduced, or even terminated, my participation in recent years. I compared the number of postings during November 2015 with the number of postings during November 2008. None of the groups had experienced an increase in postings; and all of the decreases exceeded 50%. The decreases were as follows: 98%, 96%, 93%, 92%, 77%, 74%, and 59%. The lowest decrease was in a Baltimore & Ohio Railroad discussion group which is characterized by relatively strict moderation. Postings that aren't related directly to B&O are prohibited; and the same is true for arguments among participants. We can certainly disagree with one another; however that can't escalate into personal criticisms. The (unscientific) conclusion which I draw from all this is that discussion group participants are willing to accept a certain amount of intra-group discourtesy if useful information continues to be exchanged. However if there's a prolonged decrease in informational discussions, it won't matter how well the participants get along with one another. I do presume that the general decrease in participation between 2008 and 2015 that I mentioned was partially due to increased use of social media; however I don't know the extent of that relationship.
tree68 Convicted One If one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise. Absolutely. It's not the genuinely ignorant that are the problem. In fact, they provide an opportunity for those who do know to instruct those who don't. Everyone learns in the process. The problem is those who can't seem to accept an answer (no matter what it is) without challenging it. They're like the little kid who keeps asking, "Why?" And then claims to be the victim...
Convicted One If one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise.
Larry: I do not think that is what Convicted One was saying there. People who are secure in their knowledge, career, etc. have no problem with challenges, even from outsiders. It is not only a teaching opportunity it may well open up new territory or outlooks which the expert had not previously considered or to revisit previously settled issues.
As to dealing with those "yes, but" types who continue unproductively on and on, anyone who teaches can tell you we simply cut them off at some point (not hastily because we want students to question and challenge) and move on.
tree68 A technical discussion will only last as long as there are questions or comments on the topic at hand. And most folks will recognize and respect the information provided by those who deal with the topic on a regular basis. And if you tell me that the air pressure in the brake line is what holds the brake shoes off the wheels, I'm going to correct you.
I stand by my contention that Schlimm's lying both when he says chessiecat123 posts in almost every current thread, and when he says chessiecat123's posts were the last ones in those threads. Does anyone care to comment on if I was out of line calling Schlimm a liar?
Posted by schlimm on Friday, December 11, 2015 10:51 PM
gardendance I assume you mean ChessieCat123. I don't read every thread, but of the threads I do read, for example this one he's posted 5 times, and in its evil twin the indecent thread he hasn't posted at all. I think you're exaggerating when you say "he has taken to posting on almost every current thread" Please give some examples.
gardendance See what happens when you try to post when you're sleepy? I should have just clicked his profile. Other than the aforementioned innoffensive "Who names control points" post, http://cs.trains.com/members/chessiecat123/default.aspx says the most recent time he posted IN SOMEONE ELSE'S THREAD was 6 days ago.
schlimm Your posts are much akin to his.
gardendance ... Seriously though, where are ANY examples to support your contention that ChessieCat123 "has taken to posting on almost every current thread"?
schlimm gardendance There's no need for me to wait anymore. I conclude that your post accusing chessiecat123 of hijacking other peoples' threads was a lie, and I'm willing to bet that any reasonable person would conclude the same way. Your post is a total distortion fabrication of my comment. And what I said was only in the same sense of what several others also were saying [about Ray]. Here was my post: Most of us indicated we could ignore the subject of this thread. However, he has taken to posting on almost every current thread making that increasingly difficult. How much longer does this have to go on? He's destroying whatever enjoyment was left of these forums on his way to oblivion. Where is the word "hijacking" above? "Almost every" is hardly a precise count. When I posted this, however, many threads on the various forums showed the last comment was his, and often the comment was a typical troll comment. Some comments he makes are good contributions, but a significant number are straight out of the troller's manual. You befriended Ray, defended his trolling and even took him for a ride on a boat - all your privilege and free choice. Don't expect everyone to share your opinion.
schlimm ...People who are secure in their knowledge, career, etc. have no problem with challenges, even from outsiders. It is not only a teaching opportunity it may well open up new territory or outlooks which the expert had not previously considered or to revisit previously settled issues. As to dealing with those "yes, but" types who continue unproductively on and on, anyone who teaches can tell you we simply cut them off at some point (not hastily because we want students to question and challenge) and move on.
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