I stand by my contention that Schlimm's lying both when he says chessiecat123 posts in almost every current thread, and when he says chessiecat123's posts were the last ones in those threads. Does anyone care to comment on if I was out of line calling Schlimm a liar?
Posted by schlimm on Friday, December 11, 2015 10:51 PM
schlimm Most of us indicated we could ignore the subject of this thread. However, he has taken to posting on almost every current thread making that increasingly difficult. How much longer does this have to go on? He's destroying whatever enjoyment was left of these forums on his way to oblivion.
gardendance I assume you mean ChessieCat123. I don't read every thread, but of the threads I do read, for example this one he's posted 5 times, and in its evil twin the indecent thread he hasn't posted at all. I think you're exaggerating when you say "he has taken to posting on almost every current thread" Please give some examples.
gardendance See what happens when you try to post when you're sleepy? I should have just clicked his profile. Other than the aforementioned innoffensive "Who names control points" post, http://cs.trains.com/members/chessiecat123/default.aspx says the most recent time he posted IN SOMEONE ELSE'S THREAD was 6 days ago.
schlimm Your posts are much akin to his.
gardendance ... Seriously though, where are ANY examples to support your contention that ChessieCat123 "has taken to posting on almost every current thread"?
schlimm gardendance Schlimm, you have still not answered my question about how you got your opinion that chessiecat123 is putting his comments into other peoples' threads. Although I try to be funny once in a while, I also have some serious questions as well, and this is one of them. The statistics that I looked at would support a contention that he makes lots of his own threads, not that he hijacks other peoples' threads. You felt strongly enough that he does hijack other peoples' threads to post it, so what makes you feel this way? Keep waiting, then.
schlimm gardendance There's no need for me to wait anymore. I conclude that your post accusing chessiecat123 of hijacking other peoples' threads was a lie, and I'm willing to bet that any reasonable person would conclude the same way. Your post is a total distortion fabrication of my comment. And what I said was only in the same sense of what several others also were saying [about Ray]. Here was my post: Most of us indicated we could ignore the subject of this thread. However, he has taken to posting on almost every current thread making that increasingly difficult. How much longer does this have to go on? He's destroying whatever enjoyment was left of these forums on his way to oblivion. Where is the word "hijacking" above? "Almost every" is hardly a precise count. When I posted this, however, many threads on the various forums showed the last comment was his, and often the comment was a typical troll comment. Some comments he makes are good contributions, but a significant number are straight out of the troller's manual. You befriended Ray, defended his trolling and even took him for a ride on a boat - all your privilege and free choice. Don't expect everyone to share your opinion.
schlimm ...People who are secure in their knowledge, career, etc. have no problem with challenges, even from outsiders. It is not only a teaching opportunity it may well open up new territory or outlooks which the expert had not previously considered or to revisit previously settled issues. As to dealing with those "yes, but" types who continue unproductively on and on, anyone who teaches can tell you we simply cut them off at some point (not hastily because we want students to question and challenge) and move on.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
tree68 A technical discussion will only last as long as there are questions or comments on the topic at hand. And most folks will recognize and respect the information provided by those who deal with the topic on a regular basis. And if you tell me that the air pressure in the brake line is what holds the brake shoes off the wheels, I'm going to correct you.
tree68 Convicted One If one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise. Absolutely. It's not the genuinely ignorant that are the problem. In fact, they provide an opportunity for those who do know to instruct those who don't. Everyone learns in the process. The problem is those who can't seem to accept an answer (no matter what it is) without challenging it. They're like the little kid who keeps asking, "Why?" And then claims to be the victim...
Convicted One If one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise.
Absolutely. It's not the genuinely ignorant that are the problem. In fact, they provide an opportunity for those who do know to instruct those who don't. Everyone learns in the process.
The problem is those who can't seem to accept an answer (no matter what it is) without challenging it. They're like the little kid who keeps asking, "Why?" And then claims to be the victim...
Larry: I do not think that is what Convicted One was saying there. People who are secure in their knowledge, career, etc. have no problem with challenges, even from outsiders. It is not only a teaching opportunity it may well open up new territory or outlooks which the expert had not previously considered or to revisit previously settled issues.
As to dealing with those "yes, but" types who continue unproductively on and on, anyone who teaches can tell you we simply cut them off at some point (not hastily because we want students to question and challenge) and move on.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I have no idea how frequently a discussion group participant is "driven away" from the group because of postings by another participant. However I've never ceased participating in a group because of another participant. What causes a cessation of my participation is a significant decrease in discussions that provide me with information that I consider useful. My railroad-related interests are extremely narrow; and I certainly don't expect most topics to provide me with useful information. However I pay attention to trends in topics that given groups discuss; and the more those topics shift away from my areas of interest the less likely I am to participate. It occurred to me that if I initiated more discussions, there might be more discussions that interested me. So in an effort to determine the extent to which I was causing my own problem, I looked at participation statistics for seven of the railroad-related discussion groups in which I had significantly reduced, or even terminated, my participation in recent years. I compared the number of postings during November 2015 with the number of postings during November 2008. None of the groups had experienced an increase in postings; and all of the decreases exceeded 50%. The decreases were as follows: 98%, 96%, 93%, 92%, 77%, 74%, and 59%. The lowest decrease was in a Baltimore & Ohio Railroad discussion group which is characterized by relatively strict moderation. Postings that aren't related directly to B&O are prohibited; and the same is true for arguments among participants. We can certainly disagree with one another; however that can't escalate into personal criticisms. The (unscientific) conclusion which I draw from all this is that discussion group participants are willing to accept a certain amount of intra-group discourtesy if useful information continues to be exchanged. However if there's a prolonged decrease in informational discussions, it won't matter how well the participants get along with one another. I do presume that the general decrease in participation between 2008 and 2015 that I mentioned was partially due to increased use of social media; however I don't know the extent of that relationship.
Convicted OneIf one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Convicted OneSometimes having a mastery of your field includes a requirement that you appreciate the predicament of those not so blessed. If one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise
Perhaps this statement should be added to the Trains Forum "Terms of Use".
gardendance. I do agree that the article to which it refers is stupid,
Well, at least my thread specifically addressed issues involving RAILROADING, which is a lot more than I can say about the "Mass shooting near railroad tracks" thread, which seemed to gather quite a bit of attention despite questionable context issues.
Convicted One tree68 And most folks will recognize and respect the information provided by those who deal with the topic on a regular basis One thing may deserve mention at this point. Often we make our own bed. There are a handful of people here who seem find it especially challenging to disagree with anyone without lacing their "fact stream" with personal insults, demeaning epithets, and self-serving vitriol. And, if someone happens to decide that they just have to lace their "expertise" with condescension and abuse, I hope they will forgive me if I fail to respect their whiskers. There are a few regulars here especially fond of painting with a fairly broad brush. Listening to them rant about what idiots college graduates who happen to disagree with them are, it can be vexing to take all of their expertise seriously. Signed: A college graduate
tree68 And most folks will recognize and respect the information provided by those who deal with the topic on a regular basis
One thing may deserve mention at this point. Often we make our own bed.
There are a handful of people here who seem find it especially challenging to disagree with anyone without lacing their "fact stream" with personal insults, demeaning epithets, and self-serving vitriol.
And, if someone happens to decide that they just have to lace their "expertise" with condescension and abuse, I hope they will forgive me if I fail to respect their whiskers. There are a few regulars here especially fond of painting with a fairly broad brush. Listening to them rant about what idiots college graduates who happen to disagree with them are, it can be vexing to take all of their expertise seriously.
Signed: A college graduate
I would concur. There is no room in "the marketplace of ideas" or rational discussions for invectives, euphemistic vulgarities or demeaning phrases. But it happens often on here, along with a contempt for academic achievements, as though that were self-evident.
Having a healthy tolerance for disagreement, even when you think the "other" is in error, is what most real experts try to practice. Toleration of ad hominem attacks is quite another matter.
tree68it's that they would question the veracity, the justification, and/or the practices surrounding the topic.
Sometimes having a mastery of your field includes a requirement that you appreciate the predicament of those not so blessed.
If one is comfortable with their station, a little challenge from the genuinely ignorant now and then shouldn't threaten the franchise.
We can differ with respect. Recently, on another forum, an expert in his own field made what seemed to me to be a blanket statement. I responded, pointing out, from my own experience, a correction. (I think you all are aware that I have never received any pay for railroad work). He responded, acknowledging my correction.
We are friends.
Johnny
Convicted OneIn your air brake example earlier, I can understand how somone might be misinformed, but find it challenging to believe that somone would insult you for taking the time to set the record straight. Have you had that experience?
Isn't that what this thread is all about?
And it isn't that someone would insult me - it's that they would question the veracity, the justification, and/or the practices surrounding the topic. Ad nauseum, even in the face of repeated informed replies to their incredulity.
tree68And most folks will recognize and respect the information provided by those who deal with the topic on a regular basis
tree68Not necessarily - the fire forums I'm on seem to do pretty well.
Yes, but you are a fireman, correct? So if the trade "insiders" rule that roost, and you are an insider, it really isn't much of a surprise that you see no problem with that set up.
I really haven't seen much indication from Kalmbach that their desire is to have this message board become the private feifdom of a handful of industry insiders. (And that is what it looks like the argument is about at this point in time, a few wish to command the masses on the proper way to revere them) rather I suspect that it is Kalmbach's preference to utilize the message boards to make their readership feel more attached to their product(s).
In your air brake example earlier, I can understand how somone might be misinformed, but find it challenging to believe that somone would insult you for taking the time to set the record straight. Have you had that experience?
gardendance The word hijacking appears in my reply to you. It's my interpretation of your phrase "Almost every". Within a few hours of your having posted that I checked, found that he had posted in ONLY 1 thread within the prior week that he hadn't originated, and posted my findings, which completely disagree with your unsubstantiated comment that "many threads on the various forums showed the last comment was his". "Almost every" may be an imprecise comment, but it's considerably more than 1. I befriended Ray, a mistake I will not make again. I am not defending Ray's or anyone else's trolling. I am trying to defend the truth, and point out this instance where you lied and are rephrasing your lie.
The word hijacking appears in my reply to you. It's my interpretation of your phrase "Almost every". Within a few hours of your having posted that I checked, found that he had posted in ONLY 1 thread within the prior week that he hadn't originated, and posted my findings, which completely disagree with your unsubstantiated comment that "many threads on the various forums showed the last comment was his". "Almost every" may be an imprecise comment, but it's considerably more than 1.
I befriended Ray, a mistake I will not make again. I am not defending Ray's or anyone else's trolling. I am trying to defend the truth, and point out this instance where you lied and are rephrasing your lie.
I am certainly not going to respond in the future to someone who totallly distorts reality for his own purposes and then has the brass to call that person a liar.
schlimmFrom this point onward, I will not respond to your posts.
He'll be "such a sad case, so broken-hearted".
Norm
gardendanceThere's no need for me to wait anymore. I conclude that your post accusing chessiecat123 of hijacking other peoples' threads was a lie, and I'm willing to bet that any reasonable person would conclude the same way.
Your post is a total distortion fabrication of my comment. And what I said was only in the same sense of what several others also were saying [about Ray]. Here was my post:
Most of us indicated we could ignore the subject of this thread. However, he has taken to posting on almost every current thread making that increasingly difficult. How much longer does this have to go on? He's destroying whatever enjoyment was left of these forums on his way to oblivion.
Where is the word "hijacking" above? "Almost every" is hardly a precise count. When I posted this, however, many threads on the various forums showed the last comment was his, and often the comment was a typical troll comment. Some comments he makes are good contributions, but a significant number are straight out of the troller's manual.
You befriended Ray, defended his trolling and even took him for a ride on a boat - all your privilege and free choice. Don't expect everyone to share your opinion.
nothing
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
BigJim gardendance whatever it is I can't see it. Then I hope you can see the Delair Bridge before you crash into it.
gardendance whatever it is I can't see it.
Then I hope you can see the Delair Bridge before you crash into it.
I think you should say before I crash into the bridge AGAIN.
gardendance Schlimm, you have still not answered my question about how you got your opinion that chessiecat123 is putting his comments into other peoples' threads. Although I try to be funny once in a while, I also have some serious questions as well, and this is one of them. The statistics that I looked at would support a contention that he makes lots of his own threads, not that he hijacks other peoples' threads. You felt strongly enough that he does hijack other peoples' threads to post it, so what makes you feel this way?
Keep waiting, then.
There's no need for me to wait anymore. I conclude that your post accusing chessiecat123 of hijacking other peoples' threads was a lie, and I'm willing to bet that any reasonable person would conclude the same way.
schlimm F3A Murphy Siding schlimm Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you? In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you? This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. I believe you've lost your sense of humor. Perhaps you could ask Santy Clause for a new one?Wiki? Google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Sy6oiJbEk From this point onward, I will not respond to your posts.
F3A Murphy Siding schlimm Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you? In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you? This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. I believe you've lost your sense of humor. Perhaps you could ask Santy Clause for a new one?Wiki? Google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Sy6oiJbEk
Murphy Siding schlimm Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you? In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you? This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. I believe you've lost your sense of humor. Perhaps you could ask Santy Clause for a new one?Wiki? Google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain
schlimm Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you? In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you? This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring.
Murphy Siding schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'. You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you?
schlimm I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'.
I've noted the "insanity" question here. I won't touch that one with a 50' pole, but maybe 51'.
You're so inane. You probably think this thread is about you-don't you?
In a word, NO. Is that clear enough for you?
This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring.
I believe you've lost your sense of humor. Perhaps you could ask Santy Clause for a new one?Wiki? Google? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Sy6oiJbEk
From this point onward, I will not respond to your posts.
Well, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.
gardendanceSchlimm, you have still not answered my question about how you got your opinion that chessiecat123 is putting his comments into other peoples' threads. Although I try to be funny once in a while, I also have some serious questions as well, and this is one of them. The statistics that I looked at would support a contention that he makes lots of his own threads, not that he hijacks other peoples' threads. You felt strongly enough that he does hijack other peoples' threads to post it, so what makes you feel this way?
Norm48327 schlimm This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. Then, if I may ask, why are you even reading it, much less contributing to the boredom? Bored people usually walk away.
schlimm This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring.
Then, if I may ask, why are you even reading it, much less contributing to the boredom? Bored people usually walk away.
Kettle? Pot?
gardendancewhatever it is I can't see it.
.
Norm48327 schlimm This has become yet another in a long series of threads that are obsessive, whining, ranting, insulting and boring. Then, if I may ask, why are you even reading it, much less contributing to the boredom? Bored people usually walk away. Hmm
schlimm
Then, if I may ask, why are you even reading it, much less contributing to the boredom? Bored people usually walk away. Hmm
Norm, you did it again, took the words out of my mouth. When will you learn that I must originate everything?
Schlimm, you have still not answered my question about how you got your opinion that chessiecat123 is putting his comments into other peoples' threads. Although I try to be funny once in a while, I also have some serious questions as well, and this is one of them. The statistics that I looked at would support a contention that he makes lots of his own threads, not that he hijacks other peoples' threads. You felt strongly enough that he does hijack other peoples' threads to post it, so what makes you feel this way?
BigJim
Within the context of which thread? Are you talking about this thread, which I started because another thread had just about the same statement you made, why are some people allowed to post? Regardless of how you feel about the posters, what solution can you provide that would prevent them from posting? It's pretty obvious that each time chessiecat123 has had one of his logins suspended he's simply created another one. I can't imagine any method, on a free website, that would do anything more than slow someone down very slightly who's determined to post what they want.
Or are you talking about "Bomb Trains" threaten America's safety, according to report" That was not one of chessiecat123's. As I mentioned above, I don't see anything wrong with the thread. What is it that makes you feel it's a stupid thread, or that the poster is " here just to stir up things up", and so is worthy of getting the poster banned?
You obviously see something wrong with either this thread, in which you're participating, or in the "bomb train" thread, but whatever it is I can't see it.
Perhaps he has nothing else to do during the day.
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