Convicted One I am aware that there is a broad opportunity to dismiss the numbers if one is so inclined..."small sample size" "no access to raw data" etc etc yada yada,
Hasn't gotten anywhere near that level yet.
We're still down at the 'garbage in, garbage out' level of the newsworker understanding where the numbers come from, and what they mean.
COVID-19 deaths, in Italy and now increasingly here, are being counted in ways that artificially inflate, sometimes substantially, the actual 'deaths' caused directly by SARS-CoV-2, now, apparently, often without actually testing to see if the virus was or is present (!) It is certainly possible that Indiana's incidence of H1N1 may not be representative of other areas reporting higher death totals; in fact, I have no backup statistical analysis to show that the reported H1N1 death incidence nationwide (which was running at a high multiple of legitimate COVID-19-caused deaths) is accurate.
Perhaps interestingly, the official Indiana statistics indicate only 49 deaths in the period from March 28 and April 14, which is not at all what the television station's cleverly-smoothed curve indicates. I also note, although this appears to be unremarked officially, that the case rate increase is slowing down, which may indicate that the various heroic social-distancing mechanisms are working.
daveklepperI post data from Israel because it includes numbers on the recovered, is reliable, and includes breakthroughs on steps to cures and actual relief from symptoms
I appreciate the way you give us updates on the way Israel is combating this disease.
It's just your penchant for bulk overloading these threads by pasting entire articles that gets tredious. Especially the way some of those pastings are laced with unneccessary zingers against Israel's ideological adversaries.
I post data from Israel because it includes numbers on the recovered, is reliable, and includes breakthroughs on steps to cures and actual relief from symptoms. And the conflicts between health specialists and economy-defense people parallel those in the USA.
Would I be interested in similar data from Findland or Saskatchawan? You bet!
Euclid BaltACD There has not been enough testing to know what we don't know. What is it that we have to know before we restart the economy?
BaltACD There has not been enough testing to know what we don't know.
There has not been enough testing to know what we don't know.
What is it that we have to know before we restart the economy?
Who has the virus, who is passing the virus and who is 'immune' to the virus - if science doesn't come up with a vaccine to prevent the fatal effects of contracting the virus.
In the absense of 'herd immunity' the effects of the virus on the population at large will overwhelm the healthcare system wherever the virus strikes. To date we have no scientifically proven treatment for the virus.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
charlie hebdo Euclid Convicted One I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking. People in Michigan feel that it is unnecessary to lock down the entire state just because Detroit has exploded with the virus. They draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit. So they want the Governor to keep Detroit locked down if she feels it is necessary, but let the rest of the State get back to making a living. I have a feeling that the Governor would never consider such a proposal. I believe she would think it unfair to Detroit. Meanwhile Trump has resumed the tactic of distraction from his failure in managing the crisis by attacking the WHO and China, even lying once again about who pays the tariffs. Hint: It's not China. And why did you say "the people of Michigan" when it was only a small group of Trumpists?
Euclid Convicted One I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking. People in Michigan feel that it is unnecessary to lock down the entire state just because Detroit has exploded with the virus. They draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit. So they want the Governor to keep Detroit locked down if she feels it is necessary, but let the rest of the State get back to making a living. I have a feeling that the Governor would never consider such a proposal. I believe she would think it unfair to Detroit.
Convicted One I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking.
People in Michigan feel that it is unnecessary to lock down the entire state just because Detroit has exploded with the virus. They draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit. So they want the Governor to keep Detroit locked down if she feels it is necessary, but let the rest of the State get back to making a living. I have a feeling that the Governor would never consider such a proposal. I believe she would think it unfair to Detroit.
Meanwhile Trump has resumed the tactic of distraction from his failure in managing the crisis by attacking the WHO and China, even lying once again about who pays the tariffs. Hint: It's not China.
And why did you say "the people of Michigan" when it was only a small group of Trumpists?
To your last point, I said: "People in Michigan," not "The people of Michigan." I have no idea how many people or who they support for President.
Flintlock76 BaltACD There has not been enough testing to know what we don't know. True, but sometimes you just can't know it all. Or even know as much as you'd like.
True, but sometimes you just can't know it all. Or even know as much as you'd like.
To date roughly 3.2M have been tested with a population in the country of roughly 330M.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
When you are dealing with a condition that can be transmitted by symptomless individuals more testing is needed.
EuclidThey draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit.
Reported numbers in low populated areas here seemed comfortingly small too. But I question if that might be more a result that tests were not widely available here until just recently. Now we are seeing expotential increases almost daily.
It's kinda hard to report meaningful numbers when the official line is trying to discourage blanket testing.
OvermodThis being the phrase that is likely operative here. I'd want to see substantiation of both statistics indicated before even beginning to assess if this is 'factual' or not.
Our local newspaper appears to be at war with non-paying online users, stuff appears and vanishes on a whim, I guess trying to get us to pay up. I was unable to locate the source I saw a couple days ago. But it was just a blanket statement accompanying a scoreboard type tally of then current numbers, so even at best I doubt it would have satisfied you.
I did find the following, which if one accepts the data reported,... appears to support that claim
From an Indianapolis TV station second graph down depicts average flu deaths last 4 years
From the Indiana dept of heath reflecting current conditions with 436 cov19 deaths statewide
I am aware that there is a broad opportunity to dismiss the numbers if one is so inclined..."small sample size" "no access to raw data" etc etc yada yada, but that's the best I can do.
Convicted OneI can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking.
Convicted OneI saw a claim by a local reporter the other day that COVID-19 deaths thus far in Indiana are already twice the total amount of flu related deaths the state typically records during an entire 7-month flu season.
This being the phrase that is likely operative here. I'd want to see substantiation of both statistics indicated before even beginning to assess if this is 'factual' or not.
I saw a claim by a local reporter the other day that Covid 19 deaths thus far in Indiana are already twice the total amount of flu related deaths the state typically records during an entire 7 month flu season.
And that is with the shelter in place requirement in effect...imagine where we'd be without restriction?
For years I have quite honestly been in disbelief with the way western culture has come to exaggerate the value of human life. Just think of the standard narrative for a typical wrongful death lawsuit for an example of what I am saying. The recriminations of the plaintiff and the cost inflicted by their "wanton disregard" etc etc etc.
But now, we are seeing a quantum shift where the worshipers of the high church of Capitalism are now trying to convince us that their priorities merit a "plan B" where certain segments of society be regarded as "expendable" towards some greater common good?
Really?
Convicted One I see where the daily death toll in the USA due to the virus was 2,405 on Tuesday. The highest single daily toll yet. I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking.
I see where the daily death toll in the USA due to the virus was 2,405 on Tuesday. The highest single daily toll yet.
I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking.
They're thinking about the economy. And it does bear thinking about.
The problem is no-one can say with any certainty just when the pandemic will be truly over and done with. While I have the greatest respect for the medical professionals it seems that concerning COVID-19 where you have five of them together you get six opinions. Speaking rhetorically, of course. Are they all right, are they all wrong, are some right and some wrong? Who knows? Do they know? Personally, I'm hoping the medical professionals my sister works with are correct in assuming that COVID-19, as bad as it is, will behave the same as any of the flu viruses they've had to deal with in the past and abate with the longer days, increased sunlight and its UV component, which have knocked down flu strains pretty reliably in the past.
Now this is when those we've elected to govern us have to step up to the plate and make decisions none of them ever expected to make. Do we wait two months, four months, six months, a year, until we're absolutely sure? How much can the economies of all fifty states stand a lockdown and slowdown of commerce until the whole economy collapses? And it's not just us, it's the rest of the effected world as well.
Sooner or later the hard, teeth-clenching decision's going to have to be made to assume the risk and get the economy moving again. It won't be an easy one, I understand that, but it's going to have to be made.
Welcome to the real world of high command.
Convicted One-- They think that the 'peak' is now and it's down hill from here. Listening to them is quite dizzying. I really don't think they know nearly as much as they would like. People are getting antsy, Governors are getting totalitarian like in Michigan. A Michigan resident cannot go to their cottages up North, but out of state residents can. You can use a canoe but not a motorboat! It goes on and on and where does it end.
If we wait to open our countries until the last case there will be no country left to open up to.
On a further note I am inspired by a certain poster and will henceforth and forthwith post the twice daily 3 page report from the Government of Saskatchewan, covering all seven sub areas. That'll be a dozzie!
Also the research results from the Univ. of Saskatoon, Univ. of Regina and the Innovation Centre.
Might as well throw in the latest on Quadrotriticale and other wheat research. ... because we all want to know right?
Should I include all the rest of Canada? I think I should.
No body every talks about Finland... think I'll throw in Finland.
Does any reader have access to the USA Recovered number?
Note now deaths in Israel are avout 5% of the recovered. Were 10%.
The following is edited for brevity. The URL is:
https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israel-under-lockdown
The Israeli Government will convene a special hearing on Thursday at 3 p.m. to discuss the country’s exit strategy, a plan to gradually remove the restrictions that have been placed on the public to help stop the spread of the novel coronavirus.
1. Yes, I am a dual citizen, and 2. I am concerned about both countries' welfare, and 3. I am a USA Army Veteran, and 4. moved from Reform to Orthodox in 1970, age 38. Am now 88. Also a vegeetarian. Reasons? Not on this website. Contact daveklepper@yahoo.com
Subject: MTA Announces Partnership With Northwell Health-GoHealthUrgent Care to Provide COVID-19 Testing for Heroic MTA WorkersPress ReleaseApril 15, 2020MTA Announces Partnership With Northwell Health-GoHealth Urgent Careto Provide COVID-19 Testing for Heroic MTA WorkersNation’s Largest Transportation Agency Teams Up With State’s LargestHealthcare Provider in Latest Move to Protect Front Line MTA WorkersThe Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) today announced thatit has joined forces with Northwell Health-GoHealth Urgent Care toprovide prioritized COVID-19 testing to symptomatic frontline MTAworkers at its urgent care facilities throughout the New Yorkmetropolitan region. The new partnership with the state’s largesthealthcare provider marks the latest in a series of aggressive healthand safety measures taken by the MTA to protect its vital frontlineworkforce and limit the spread of the COVID-19 at no cost to MTAemployees.Under the new partnership, Northwell Health-GoHealth Urgent Care willprovide priority testing to symptomatic transportation workers a rateof up to 50 tests per day or 350 per week. The partnership between theMTA and Northwell Health-GoHealth Urgent Care is similar to thepartnership the organization has with the NYPD and FDNY. The agreementexpands the range of options available to MTA employees, who are stillable to go to their primary care physician or other medical providerat no cost to the employee.“We remain relentlessly committed to doing everything we possibly canto keep our frontline workers safe,” said MTA Chairman and CEO PatrickJ. Foye. “We will continue working to identify any and all solutionswe can deploy to help protect our employees. The region simply cannotfunction without the essential and heroic workers of this pandemic.”“As the largest employer of healthcare workers in the state, weunderstand how vital it is to have a functioning mass transit systemduring this time of unprecedented challenges,” said Northwell HealthPresident and CEO Michael J. Dowling. “Untold numbers of our ownemployees depend on mass transit to get to work each day. Ourrelationship with the MTA is a mutually essential one and we lookforward to partnering together in the days and weeks to come to makesure that MTA workers can get tested at our more than 50 urgent carelocations around the region.”Northwell Health-GoHealth Urgent Care centers throughout the city,Long Island and Westchester County began testing vital firstresponders from city agencies this week. Northwell Health-GoHealthwill be reaching out to MTA workers who have identified themselves assymptomatic to the MTA COVID-19 hotline and arranging appointments fora range of comprehensive medical exams and diagnostic tests, includingtesting for COVID-19 beginning Friday, April 17.Northwell Health-GoHealth Urgent Care locations are located at 52locations throughout the region and are open from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. onweekdays and 9 a.m.-5 p.m. on weekends. For more information, visithttp://Gohealthuc.com/nyc <http://gohealthuc.com/nyc>.
The MTA has been a national leader among transportation agencies intaking aggressive action to battle the COVID-19 pandemic since theearly days of its arrival in New York. The organization hasdistributed millions of pieces of personal protective equipment,including 2.7 million pairs of gloves and nearly 750,000 masks, sinceMarch 1 <https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttp-3A__www.mta.info_press-2Drelease_mta-2Dheadquarters_mta-2Dcontinues-2Ddistribute-2Dn95-2Dmasks-2Dand-2Dother-2Dppe-2Dheroic-2Dworkforce%26d%3DDwMF-g%26c%3Dvq5m7Kktb9l80A_wDJ5D-g%26r%3D2OO_YK3HShjWBHpwgOUKedaS_yDNJJh5Z1cSZhBHibU%26m%3DHJTRS0Ly3wmb8aLyg9Rs_ffri7vb25VYv5cDC4wi-RQ%26s%3DBeSGZ1btyvYWsadTDFBQNTmr73LPGm660eOI8b-gpt4%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7Ctminton%40mtahq.org%7Ceb0dab4bde45423beb9208d7e132b200%7C79c07380cc9841bd806b0ae925588f66%7C0%7C0%7C637225480167066941&sdata=JRCMhM%2F%2Fr1ks5sMJ1XMLVvat5XWJENbT88jXTK6T3E0%3D&reserved=0>.In order to protect employees, the MTA also disregarded federalguidance and began handing out masks to all employees before theCenters for Disease Control and Prevention later issued new guidancerecommending all Americans wear masks. The MTA continues itscomprehensive disinfecting efforts systemwide with trains and busesbeing disinfected nightly, with the entire fleets for all agencies –more than 8,000 train cars and 5,000 buses – completed every 72 hoursor less, since March 2
The MTA has also implemented rear-door boarding and eliminated cashtransactions to prevent person-to-person contact to ensure the of operating employees. The MTA launched the nation-leading“Temperature Brigade” on March 24 and later expanded the force to 22locations testing tens of thousands of employees across New York CityTransit, Metro-North and Long Island Rail Road. The MTA is alsoworking to install plexiglass barriers at work locations across all 28bus depots to further protect employees. The health and safety of theMTA’s employees and customers continues to be the agency’s toppriority.
NKP guy This is counter-intuitive.
Well, if you have a nice tarry pair of lungs, perhaps it's hard for the virus to get a foothold in such a hostile environment.
Just as the non-smokers who pitch such a fit over the blue clouds near building entrances.
"Completely unsurvivable" to hear them tell their story.
Many people who move to Israel are able to have dual citizenship with the US and do so. Perhaps he did. It's legal.
243129 Deggesty In previous posts, he has told us he is a citizen of Israel. Where? On this thread?
Deggesty In previous posts, he has told us he is a citizen of Israel.
Where? On this thread?
It doesn't matter.
An "expensive model collector"
DeggestyIn previous posts, he has told us he is a citizen of Israel.
Quoting 243129 ". If he is so enamored of Israel and Israelis why not become a citizen and help the religion of your ancestry. " In previous posts, he has told us he is a citizen of Israel. Also, from what he has posted, he is an Orthodox Jew.
Why do you think he is not a citizen of Israel?
Johnny
Flintlock76 243129 David Klepper, are you an Israeli citizen? If not, why not become one and contribute to the cause you admire and espouse so fervently? Let's not have any of that. I'm the one who started this thread, if it gets nasty I'll have it shut down. Play nice people. On a more positive note, I just looked at a chart put out by the CDC that indicates smokers are less susceptible to COVID-19 than non-smokers. Light 'em up boys!
243129 David Klepper, are you an Israeli citizen? If not, why not become one and contribute to the cause you admire and espouse so fervently?
David Klepper, are you an Israeli citizen? If not, why not become one and contribute to the cause you admire and espouse so fervently?
Let's not have any of that. I'm the one who started this thread, if it gets nasty I'll have it shut down. Play nice people.
On a more positive note, I just looked at a chart put out by the CDC that indicates smokers are less susceptible to COVID-19 than non-smokers.
Light 'em up boys!
Any of what? I asked a valid question. If he is so enamored of Israel and Israelis why not become a citizen and help the religion of your ancestry. I will add however that a railroad-themed forum is not the venue for espousing the prodigiousness of ones 'adopted' country.
NKP guy Flintlock76 On a more positive note, I just looked at a chart put out by the CDC that indicates smokers are less susceptible to COVID-19 than non-smokers. Can you please provide a link to that chart? This is counter-intuitive.
Flintlock76 On a more positive note, I just looked at a chart put out by the CDC that indicates smokers are less susceptible to COVID-19 than non-smokers.
Can you please provide a link to that chart? This is counter-intuitive.
Everything I have been hearing is that covid-19 hits smokers harder as their lungs are in nominally worse shape than non-smokers. They 'may' not contract it as easily as non-smokers (I have see no data one way or the other) but having contracted it, it is supposedly deadlier to smokers than non-smokers.
The deadly effects of covid-19 affect the respiratory system.
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