I really struggled to not use global warming deniers as a metaphor for a virus bent upon self destruction.
Well it has mitochondria so if you go back 3.5 billion years to some volcanic vent we have a common ancestor.
However we are much closer in DNA to a daffodil.
I found both the following to be interesting. The Washington Post article is paywlled, but deleting cookies can fix that
Are viruses alive? Scientific American
Viruses hard to kill, Washington Post
Flintlock76I'm really curious on that one. Is it from Michael Crichton's "The Andromeda Strain?" I saw the movie years ago but never read the book.
It was a cut and paste from one of Euclid's own posts in another thread
Euclid I do not uderstand what your point is when you ask, "Do the following words look at all familiar to you?"
Is that really the truth? Or is this just another of those instances where you exhaust others patience over matters of semantics?
Hebdo was right, I was just speaking figuratively, but at the same time I believe there is relevance.
Afterall, my can of Lysol states "Kills 99.9% of all viruses" And Lysol wouldn't lie would it?
How can you kill something unless it's alive to start with? There are fanatics out there who espouse very liberal views as to when they believe life starts, despite being 100% dependant upon their "host" for survival.
EuclidWell sure, that is the way I see it. I speculate that it is most certainly alive, whether we understand its terms of life or not. I speculate that it has consciousness, and intent; and that its consciousness is mobil and can become collective among a group of individuals. All of that is my opinion based on circumstantial evidence. I see no way to prove it.
Since you are going to make this personal, I could as easily speculate that you are most certainly not alive, regardless of whether I understand your terminologies of life or not. I speculate that you have no real consciousness or intent, and that nothing of your thinking could be meaningful to individuals. All of that is my opinion based on more direct evidence than you provided.
Of course, I see no more way to prove it than you had ... and that's the real point. Anyone can speculate, more or less as suits their fancies or prejudices. Actually justifying speculation requires something more. Actually applying scientific principles ... even in the absence of objective proof ... requires still more.
Others however assert that it is without consciousness. Do they prove that claim? No they do not.
I can prove witlessness, but not absolute lack of consciousness ... or, really, any other negative. Didn't anyone teach you actual rules of logic growing up?
The 'reason' we don't attribute consciousness to viruses is, absent metaphysical buffoonery that really could prove anything, there are no 'systems' within them that could lead to sequential actions required for temporal awareness, let alone consciousness with intent, as humans understand it. It is not up to me to 'prove' this; it's up to you to demonstrate it first. Not circumstantially, either; there's a reason the pathetic fallacy is a fallacy, as well as pathetic.
One of the recognized great triumphs of science is that its explanations hold up across a wide range of disciplines, in contexts that are widely disparate (and hence relatively immune, 'communally', from a great deal of anthropomorphic misconstrual). This is notable, for example, in Renfrew's archaogenetics, where it becomes at least plausible to trace probable lines of evolution over time, not as realized telos of some kind but as sequential mutation with selection. A point that is significant to many of us is that nothing about viral 'behavior' in the standard model requires consciousness, let alone conscious intent, let alone 'morality'. That leaves you free to speculate what you want -- this is, after all, still America -- but it doesn't give you any privilege to claim your opinion has any objective value to others, or any particular meaning.
Convicted One Euclid Really? That's a new one. I sure would like to see a source for that. I have been told for absolute certainty that the virus is non-living and has no consciousness or intent. Do the following words look at all familiar to you? -I think it is quite possible that the virus is alive and does have a sense of purpose and intent. But I don't think it can be proven whether or not virus is alive. For one thing, you must have a defintion of life, and not everyone will agree on that definition.-
Euclid Really? That's a new one. I sure would like to see a source for that. I have been told for absolute certainty that the virus is non-living and has no consciousness or intent.
Do the following words look at all familiar to you?
-I think it is quite possible that the virus is alive and does have a sense of purpose and intent. But I don't think it can be proven whether or not virus is alive. For one thing, you must have a defintion of life, and not everyone will agree on that definition.-
I'm really curious on that one. Is it from Michael Crichton's "The Andromeda Strain?" I saw the movie years ago but never read the book.
Regarding my surprise that you quoted above, that was my reaction to the claim that you had quoted from Overmod saying that the virus does not want to kill its host. My point is that that claim comes from a person who insists that the virus is not alive. Yet it supposedly does not want to kill its host. So now the virus is not alive. It is just poison dust with compassion and good will toward men.
Given this context, I do not uderstand what your point is when you ask, "Do the following words look at all familiar to you?"
EuclidReally? That's a new one. I sure would like to see a source for that. I have been told for absolute certainty that the virus is non-living and has no consciousness or intent.
Euclid Convicted One As overmod has pointed out a few times, much of the lethality has come as a result of people's immune system over reacting to the infection. A "good" parasite does not want to kill it's host. Really? That's a new one. I sure would like to see a source for that. I have been told for absolute certainty that the virus is non-living and has no consciousness or intent. If the virus has a perpetual self-interest in not killing its host, that means it will use the host forever. If it does that, it will inevitably kill its host.
Convicted One As overmod has pointed out a few times, much of the lethality has come as a result of people's immune system over reacting to the infection. A "good" parasite does not want to kill it's host.
Really? That's a new one. I sure would like to see a source for that. I have been told for absolute certainty that the virus is non-living and has no consciousness or intent.
If the virus has a perpetual self-interest in not killing its host, that means it will use the host forever. If it does that, it will inevitably kill its host.
It's a figure of speech. A virus is considered an organism consisting of genetic material (DNA and RNA). There is no consciousness or intentionality. But it has evolutionary characteristics, so survivability and reproduction are keys.
Convicted OneAs overmod has pointed out a few times, much of the lethality has come as a result of people's immune system over reacting to the infection. A "good" parasite does not want to kill it's host.
Thanks! Cannot figiure out why I missed it earlier. And on the top line, where it should be, too. And the less than 2% ratio of deaths to recovered is even better than Israels! I wonder if Nebraska's is available.
The Saskatchewan Government states 234 recoveries .
There are currently five people in hospital in Saskatchewan, including one in intensive care.
Miningman, can you get them tob publish recovered statistics?
Sunday morning, I am only posting the specific informatin that modifies the just-previous posteing:
Of the country’s 164 serious patients, 113 are on ventilators, a number which marked a 7.4% drop from the previous day. Moreover, the number of patients in serious condition similarly dropped by 2.4% from the day before, which had already seen an 8.6% drop from Thursday
Convicted One Flintlock76 As overmod has pointed out a few times, much of the lethality has come as a result of people's immune system over reacting to the infection. A "good" parasite does not want to kill it's host. So, it would seem there to be worthwhile benefit for the virus to cure this defect in it's relationship with it's host.
Flintlock76
As overmod has pointed out a few times, much of the lethality has come as a result of people's immune system over reacting to the infection. A "good" parasite does not want to kill it's host.
So, it would seem there to be worthwhile benefit for the virus to cure this defect in it's relationship with it's host.
Flintlock76A distinct possibility. I believe viruses have been known to do just that.
Convicted One Speaking of iconography, there was an episode that entailed parallel universes where Kirk is transposed with his evil twin from the other universe,...which I did not care for the episode as a child watching it. However just these past few years I've come to enjoy it...I guess ones perspective changes over time.
Speaking of iconography, there was an episode that entailed parallel universes where Kirk is transposed with his evil twin from the other universe,...which I did not care for the episode as a child watching it. However just these past few years I've come to enjoy it...I guess ones perspective changes over time.
It was called "Mirror, Mirror," and it was a good one! Great "What if?" as in...
"What if the 'Enterprise' crew were just like Klingons?"
Convicted One Off the beaten path here,...but isn't it possible that the virus could just evolve or mutate into a less harmful form, losing it's lethality in the process?
Off the beaten path here,...but isn't it possible that the virus could just evolve or mutate into a less harmful form, losing it's lethality in the process?
A distinct possibility. I believe viruses have been known to do just that.
Miningman There are currently five people in hospital in Saskatchewan, including one in intensive care.
Make sure you're not one of them Vince!
daveklepper Edited good newes frem the www.jpost.com The number of coronavirus cases in Israel showed additional signs of beginning to level on Friday morning. The Health Ministry confirmed on Saturday evening that 13,265 people have been diagnosed with the virus. So far, 159 people have died of SARS-CoV-2 in Israel and 3,247 have recovered. Of the country’s 164 serious patients, 113 are on ventilators – an 8.6% drop from the day before, in line with the flattening of the curve. The number of patients in serious condition dropped by 8.3%. The number of active cases rose from 9,764 on Wednesday morning to 9,827 on Thursday morning, it then decreased to 9,803 on Thursday evening and to 9,740 on Friday morning. The number of new cases per day also dropped on Wednesday with 455 new cases compared to 460 on Tuesday and then dropped n Thursday to 257. The Health Ministry tested 11,908 people for the novel coronavirus on Thursday - the most in any one day so far. On Friday, 9,950 were tested. As of Friday morning, 97 new cases had been confirmed, but that number will by the evrening. Israeli leaders agreed on opening the economy by Sunday, accepting the principals for an exit strategy by the National Security Council given the4 Prime M inister on Thursday. The government will gradually open a limited number of businesses, which will be subject to the rules and restrictions that the Health and Finance ministries will determine by Saturday night, and will permit exercise and sports up to 500 meters from home and re-opening small-scale special education programs. Jerusalem continues to have the highest number of cases in Israel at 2,524, with 276 out of every 100,000 residents infected with the virus. The Health Ministry has also conducted the most tests in the capital: 24,769 so far. The second highest number of cases (2,258) is in Bnei Brak, where 10,719 people have been tested and 1,156 out of every 100,000 are infected – more than four times as many per capita as Jerusalem. In terms of per-capita infections disregarding recoveries and deaths, Bnei Brak is leading, while Jerusalem is 15th on the list. All other Israeli cities have less than 1,000 cases.
Edited good newes frem the www.jpost.com
The number of coronavirus cases in Israel showed additional signs of beginning to level on Friday morning. The Health Ministry confirmed on Saturday evening that 13,265 people have been diagnosed with the virus.
There's an evolutionary pressure to do exactly that as less sick people are more likely to pass it along.
I also wonder if the strain most common in the western US is less harmful than the one causing havoc in the NYC area.
Yes! Good episode. The evil Spock...I liked him better than the Spock -Spock . After that Spock looked kinda wimpy to me. Milquetoast.
Part of that might key in to what I was saying earlier about Hollywood cooking to a certain recipe?
We've been well programmed to recognize all of that iconography as symbolic of oppression.
Perhaps they were worried that anything less might be akin to Joe Stalin without the mustache
"Patterns of Force" was a good episode, but I thought they went a little overboard with the props. By that I mean German guns, German cars, and German army and SS and SA uniforms which made use of German traditional symbols and iconography that would have meant nothing to an alien society.
They should have stopped at the swastika and had everyone in non-descript khakis. But that's just nit-picking on my part, it was a well-done episode nonetheless, and I did enjoy it.
"Doomsday Machine" was great! I saw an up-dated version recently with CGI special effects, and it was jaw-dropping! My God, how that series holds up 50 years after it went off the air!
"The Deadly Years" perhaps has some relevance to what we are currently experiencing?
I thought "The Changling", "The Doomsday Machine", "A Piece of the Action", and "Patterns of Force" were the best ST episodes.
I also enjoyed "Assignment Earth", particularly the part played by Robert Lansing
How come Yeoman Rand never discovered me! ?
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