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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 10:52 PM

Overmod

 

 
charlie hebdo
He was even boasting on TV of how amazingly he "got it" and maybe should have been a virologist or physician of some sort.

 

Please say he didn't do that ... oh, wait, it was in character, wasn't it.

It would be nice if he'd actually get his own 'expert panel' together to advise him on what actually works, and then actually make statements every week about how the administration is watching things that should work.  Including the usual sort of gentle disclaimer when 'well, we tried this and thought it would be good, but it seems to have dangerous side effects' ... I guess he thinks that bluster means strength but lack of full success means weakness.

 

On a more serious note:  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258702/

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 10:21 PM

Overmod
I wonder what the next pathetic excuse is going to be, now that expert opinion tells us a vaccine is more than 2 years out...

It was aspirational thinking....

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 9:18 PM

Parallel issue here in Israel:

Condensed from www.jpost.com website:
 
Defense Minister Naftali Bennett: “The Health Ministry and National Security Council’s model is based on the number of sick people,” Bennett explained. “This is problematic, because the number of sick people is a function of the number of tests.”
 “When we have more tests, we can open the economy in an aggressive way without any danger and without being surprised – and the moment there is an outbreak in a residential building or a school, you can go there [and close it] and not the whole city,” Bennett said.
 
Yacob Ofer, president of Gamidor Diagnostics, a medical diagnostic company providing testing systems, reagents and services to clinical laboratories and hospitals since the mid-1980s, said, “We are very optimistic that we could do a lot of checks and let everyone out.”

However, he said that performing 30,000 daily tests would likely only be realistic by sometime in May – a month after the prime minister committed to doing so.
 
It’s daughter company, Savyon Diagnostics, which manufactures and markets diagnostic solutions for the detection of infectious diseases and for genetic screening, has recently started creating some of the missing reagents needed to develop the standard PCR tests being taken in Israel.  There are multiple types of reagents used for testing and some of them are patent protected, so in those cases Israel will still have to rely on international partners, including
the Swiss diagnostic manufacturer Roche, for which Gamidor is the company’s sole representative in Israel.
Roche has been integral in allowing the country to increase testing. Jacobs said that when Israel realized coronavirus would also spread here, Gamidor quickly contacted Roche, the manufacturer of a system that rapidly develops molecular tests. Israel was able to quickly procure three machines, two of which have been installed in labs and the third which should be usable by later this week.
“The company procured them and then the Air Force went to Germany in the middle of the night and brought them back here,” Jacobs recalled.
The instrument can process a test in one step and spit back a positive or negative answer to whether a person is infected. They process around 1,500 tests per machine per day when operating at full 24-hour-a-day capacity.
Gamidor has been providing lab technicians the training needed to operate the systems and Jacobs said that the Health Ministry has ordered two more, but it is unclear when they will arrive in Israel.
Either way, Ofer said the next step is not only to increase testing but rather to move from solely using the standard PCR test, which tests for the presence of the virus in one’s system, but to do serological testing alongside it.
Serological tests identify immunoglobulin M (IgM) and immunoglobulin G (IgG) antibodies. The body quickly produces IgM antibodies for the initial fight against infection. IgG antibodies remain longer in the body, suggesting possible immunity.
“Serological tests let us see if we have the virus but also if we are immune to it,” Ofer explained.
Roche said it should have a certified antibody test available by early May in countries that accept European CE regulatory standards, and is seeking US Food and Drug Administration emergency authorization for its use in the United States.  This test could work on the hundred systems that Roche deployed nationwide in most Israeli hospitals and laboratories, capable of processing 10,000 tests per hour at full capacity,working like any other blood test and could be implemented in Israel immediately when available. “If we run these tests in conjunction with the molecular test, then we will get a full picture” – and as Bennett explained, “the closures will end.”
.
 
 
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 8:53 PM

charlie hebdo
He was even boasting on TV of how amazingly he "got it" and maybe should have been a virologist or physician of some sort.

Please say he didn't do that ... oh, wait, it was in character, wasn't it.

It would be nice if he'd actually get his own 'expert panel' together to advise him on what actually works, and then actually make statements every week about how the administration is watching things that should work.  Including the usual sort of gentle disclaimer when 'well, we tried this and thought it would be good, but it seems to have dangerous side effects' ... I guess he thinks that bluster means strength but lack of full success means weakness.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 7:42 PM
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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 7:04 PM

Trouble was he kept touting the "cure"even after Fauci, ever so gently, rained on his parade. He was even boasting on TV of how amazingly he "got it" and maybe should have been a virologist or physician of some sort. 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:48 PM

charlie hebdo

This is what happens when experts tell you something is good, you don't understand the science but have some references from experts you can throw out, you have no idea whatsoever of complex drug interaction effects ... and you have a dedicated group of people who want to make you look bad when "your" clever idea doesn't pan out effectively.

The claims for using azithromycin as the 'small molecule' of choice were kinda dubious from the start, when you actually started reading the research papers.  And when you start to see what the hydroxychloroquine is supposed to be doing... well, it would have made sense to some of the cancer researchers I was familiar with, who could get so worked up doing retrospective studies of baking, burning, cutting, poisoning, or suiciding tumors with life support systems attached that they'd lose sight of the fact that only about 50% of their therapies worked even 2 years out.  In other words: here we have a surface enzyme essential to RAAS regulation, which the virus preferentially binds and then conforms to.  Hey, let's throw something at it that degrades the binding environment, then slip a small molecule in there to whack the complex so's the virus genome can't penetrate.

Leaving huge amounts of important enzyme in degraded condition.  Without knowing if the enzyme's protein tail inside the cell might not, um, be signalling something, now locked ON or OFF perhaps, after you get done cleverly ensuring the virus can't get in.

I for one will be waiting to see whether we finally get some hard science on drug-related things that produce prolonged QT or TdP (which is the actual 'danger') -- even years ago there was a pretty long laundry list of things that 'could' have this effect.  (I wish I could say that I won't be waiting to see Trump's reaction to this development, but I find I can't stay away from a good impending train wreck...)

Of course, this being an NPR story, they quote "QTc" without knowing quite what the term means, or explaining what the little 'c' entails.  But hey!  That's just a tech detail -- the REAL story is that Trump couldn't figure it out when he touted 'his' grand solution!  Guess there won't be All Those Huge Money Profits from his great big blind secret Big Pharma investment after all!

I wonder if there are cardiac effects from hydroxychloroquine and analgesics, the combination the actual original research on chloroquine effectiveness in this sort of disease looked into.  Alas! this is one of the reasons we have clinical trials; stuff that is supposed to work, or that we really want to work, turns out to have side effects.  Best to find it out early, before you, say, have your celecoxib on the market and are exposed to the effect of large-money-damage commercials on TV.  Or you start seeing some sort of comparable toxicity effect from your GS5374 when you start using it in relevant quantity... watch that be next. 

I wonder what the next pathetic excuse is going to be, now that expert opinion tells us a vaccine is more than 2 years out...

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:13 PM
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 3:19 AM

Why is Thialand important?  If I remember correctly, it banned flights from China before either the USA or Israel and also immediately required face-mask-wearing in public places.  Its recovery-death ratio appears better than Israel's, toward that of Saskatchewan!

1

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 1:30 AM
 
A 50-year-old taxi driver the latest death. The Southeast Asian nation has a total of 2,811 cases and 48 deaths. Nearly 75%, or 2,108, have recovered.
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 12:37 AM

But could not find any Johns Hopkins recovered statistics.

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Posted by 54light15 on Monday, April 20, 2020 11:33 PM

Regarding legalising marijuana, it's now legal here for the same reason that Prohibiton went away in 1933, the government wants the tax revenue. But from what I read in the papers, legal pot stores are very expensive and most pot smokers just buy it from their regular suppliers. Everyone at first thought that the stores would be run by tie-dyed-graying-ponytail-Grateful Dead fans but it became a corporate thing right away and a lot of of them have gone bankrupt and now want government support.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, April 20, 2020 10:22 PM

daveklepper
Latest Israeli Health Ministry Figures:  177 deahs, 13,713 cases, 149 in serious condition, including 119 who require ventilators, 4,049 recovered.

From  www.jpost.com 

Same stats that the Johns Hopkins world map is reporting for Israel.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 20, 2020 8:18 PM

Latest Israeli Health Ministry Figures:  177 deahs, 13,713 cases, 149 in serious condition, including 119 who require ventilators, 4,049 recovered.

From www.jpost.com

 
 
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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, April 20, 2020 2:54 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
I have also been treated with the highest professionalism by others. Some of them are out of control. Sheldon

True dat, I have found that treating them the way I want to be treated helps in most instances, but then I have a very relaxed style in my dealings with them.

I just find many have a very "the city is a zoo and we are the keeper" mentality that leads them to mistake "unfounded suspicion" for "probable cause" whenever it suits them.  Then there are the ones who fabricate probable cause after the fact of apprehension that I have a real disdain for,  basically "poachers" to my way of thinking.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 20, 2020 2:41 PM

Charlie, your refereing to facts presented as anti-Islam propaganda are best discussd in personal correspondance and not on the website,  daveklepper@yahoo.com.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, April 20, 2020 2:33 PM

Convicted One

 

 
zugmann
But the  party that is traditionally about state's rights, is the one that isn't too keen on legalizing any sort of marijuana. They work against themselves there. 

 

Police abuse of authority is another place where I believe that societal apophenia has staked a claim.

I can verify from personal experience that whites suffer from 4th amendment abuse just as much as the next guy. 

 

 

It has happened to me, and I am a very conservative mostly white 63 year old in the wealthy rural suburbs. So I get big time how others must feel.

I have been stopped, asked questions they had no right to ask, been treated rudely at auto accident scenes, had them pound on my door like they were about to kick it in just serve a simple civil summons, and more.

I have also been treated with the highest professionalism by others.

Some of them are out of control.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, April 20, 2020 2:24 PM

zugmann

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Personally, if I thought it would work, I would be for prohibition of all of it, drugs, alcohol, tobacco.

 

That's like the other end of the political spectrum, or catty-corner from the libertarian end. 

I had a professor that was a conservative (yeah, they exist!).   Was also a policy writer for the state house, so he actually did more than just teach.  He was all for legalizing and taxing marijuana and prostituion.  His reasoning?  You aren't going to stop supply if there is a demand.  You just push the supply to the back alleys.  So why not take charge of it?

That's why I always shake my head at 10-word answers.  No issue, and most people are not that simple. 

 

I strongly agree. Make it all legal, tax it and regulate it.

My comment about prohibition relates only to my personal feelings about it. My political opinion about it is very libertarian.

I have no problem allowing things that I have personal objections to.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, April 20, 2020 2:12 PM

zugmann
But the  party that is traditionally about state's rights, is the one that isn't too keen on legalizing any sort of marijuana. They work against themselves there. 

Police abuse of authority is another place where I believe that societal apophenia has staked a claim.

I can verify from personal experience that whites suffer from 4th amendment abuse just as much as the next guy. 

 

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Posted by York1 on Monday, April 20, 2020 2:08 PM

charlie hebdo
Need some shoes?  Looks like these fit.!!

 

Gee.  And you don't even know me.

York1 John       

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, April 20, 2020 1:55 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Personally, if I thought it would work, I would be for prohibition of all of it, drugs, alcohol, tobacco.

That's like the other end of the political spectrum, or catty-corner from the libertarian end. 

I had a professor that was a conservative (yeah, they exist!).   Was also a policy writer for the state house, so he actually did more than just teach.  He was all for legalizing and taxing marijuana and prostituion.  His reasoning?  You aren't going to stop supply if there is a demand.  You just push the supply to the back alleys.  So why not take charge of it?

That's why I always shake my head at 10-word answers.  No issue, and most people are not that simple. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, April 20, 2020 1:36 PM

daveklepper

Charlie, all I can say is that you must actually hate me to continue to accuse me of things that clearly I am not doing.  As for your enlightened views, please do study the history that your friends don't teach.  There was the Mufti, he greatly distorted a tolerant religion, and what is going on in Sweden is not Israeli propaganda, neither is the burning of churches in Islamic countries, and if you and J-Street, and the parallel organizations, whose mailings I do get and read at least weekly, wish to live in a dream-world where such horrors don't exist, i cannot help you.  You obviously hate the very people who wish to help you.

 

You need to open your eyes.  A lot of what is publicized is coming from Russian,  neo-Nazi, racist  bots and websites. In the case of Sweden,  that is the source of much of it,  not Israeli propaganda.  These Russians take a few events in Sweden or Germany and magnify them.  The German federal authorities are well aware of this technique. Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia are on the same coin. 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, April 20, 2020 1:34 PM

zugmann

 

 
Convicted One
As more states jump on the bandwagon, you can expect a "states rights" type resolution in the not too distant future

 

But the  party that is traditionally about state's rights, is the one that isn't too keen on legalizing any sort of marijuana. They work against themselves there. 

 

Agreed, but not everyone in that party, holding office or in the voting booth, holds that view.

Personally, if I thought it would work, I would be for prohibition of all of it, drugs, alcohol, tobacco.

Watched it all destroy a lot of lives.

But we know that won't work. So as long as they don't bother me, I don't care what people do that is self destructive.

I avoid drunks and drug users........

But as soon as they drive a car under the influence, take away that priviledge, forever........

Sheldon

    

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, April 20, 2020 1:31 PM

York1

 

 
charlie hebdo
This forum is full of rightists and likely bigots who naturally  refuse to pay heed to history,  science or even rhetoric.  It's pointless to attempt to point out their fallacies. 

 

 

And there it is.

I've been waiting for that.

 

Need some shoes?  Looks like these fit.!!

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, April 20, 2020 12:52 PM

Convicted One
As more states jump on the bandwagon, you can expect a "states rights" type resolution in the not too distant future

But the  party that is traditionally about state's rights, is the one that isn't too keen on legalizing any sort of marijuana. They work against themselves there. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, April 20, 2020 12:51 PM

Convicted One

 

 
charlie hebdo
The term was used by confederates and segregationists throughout our history. 

 

Just because that is true does not give bigots exclusive title to the concept, nor does it give racially obsessed minorities a universal claim to having been victimized every time they hear the expression.

Like it or not "States rights" is bigger than race. 

States rights might become a contemporary issue in a completely unexpected area.

The States where marijuana is legal for general use, despite being against Federal law. Would-be customers are  99% of the time unable to use debit or credit cards for purchase, because the banking industry is federally regulated.

Same goes for business loans for growers, and distributors. they are unable to get business loans in the traditional sense because of the federal aspect, so entrepreneurs are often forced to mortgage personal property, and fund the growth out of their own pockets.

It's the "F" in FDIC that is the problem.

As more states jump on the bandwagon, you can expect a "states rights" type resolution in the not too distant future

 

+1, well said.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, April 20, 2020 12:48 PM

charlie hebdo
The term was used by confederates and segregationists throughout our history. 

Just because that is true does not give bigots exclusive title to the concept, nor does it give racially obsessed minorities a universal claim to having been victimized every time they hear the expression.

Like it or not "States rights" is bigger than race. 

States rights might become a contemporary issue in a completely unexpected area.

The States where marijuana is legal for general use, despite being against Federal law. Would-be customers are  99% of the time unable to use debit or credit cards for purchase, because the banking industry is federally regulated.

Same goes for business loans for growers, and distributors. they are unable to get business loans in the traditional sense because of the federal aspect, so entrepreneurs are often forced to mortgage personal property, and fund the growth out of their own pockets.

It's the "F" in FDIC that is the problem.

As more states jump on the bandwagon, you can expect a "states rights" type resolution in the not too distant future

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, April 20, 2020 12:42 PM

charlie hebdo
The experts and the evidence disagree with your article, interviewing a contrarian.

Well, it is breaking news.  It may be contrarian today, but give it time to sink in.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 20, 2020 12:41 PM

i don't think this Forum is full of bigots.  When one poster simply told me not to post any more Israeli Coronavirus news, or any Israeli news, for that matter. I  would not accuse him or her of bigotry, rather that he is frustrated because he or she must wade through my long desciriptions to scroll to what interests him or her.  My initial reactions were a bit off the mark, but then I decided to do my best to present Cononavirus information as concisely as I can, and completely devoid of politics.  Hopefully, the complaint has had a politive effect. 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, April 20, 2020 12:36 PM

I have to wonder for the future of restaurants.  Cannot imagie most persons going into a sit down restaurant to eat.  I certainly cannot eat with a face mask on.  Let one person in the restaurant have an allergic sneeze and all distancing goes out the window for everyone.

The writers of constitution and bill of rights when they were conceived really had no concept of public health as it is today.  So the public health laws over the years have really been probably written with the 10th amendment not fully applied.  Now why after the 1918 flu pandemic lessons were not learned who knows ?  So now the US has a public health mine field that is very difficult to navigate.   We have a pandemic that does not follow state line .  Regional solutions on mostly a county by county needs directions but that of course is not happening.

As i see it a great experiment is about to happen as some locations go back to semi normal hopeing not to have new hot spots.  A good example of a hot spot is Albany Georgia ( Dougherty county )  1436 cases 97 deaths all from attendance at a funeral.  Almost all deaths persons over 60!  Small Lee county next door 273 and 26 dead.  Death rate per 100k higher than the NY City rate.

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