charlie hebdoMerely starting a thread does not confer ownership or control of it or any other special privileges.
Actually, under the TOS, it does. The originator of a thread technically retains the ability to determine if it is 'allowed' to drift off topic, and to request that it be summarily terminated "for any reason". Juniatha used this repeatedly to control 'diversions' in some of the threads she started, and while perhaps some of the user-accessible control architecture has changed with the 'new' platforms, an OP certainly has the right to have a thread deleted. (It is less certain that an OP has the ability to have certain posts in a thread they originated selectively deleted, but moderators certainly have repeatedly used that option and it seems unlikely that a request to moderators would go unconsidered...)
The issue is less about Mr. Klepper's posting than the general tone of many of the subsequent remarks. Every one of the posts 'in question' has the little triangle to file a complaint, which brings up a box in which the complainer can go into as much detail as he or she wants involving why the post -- or the poster, or any tendency the poster may be exhibiting -- needs to have corrective modac. Use this, and then let the moderators do (or shirk) their job.
And use the down-arrow or delete keys if you don't like particular posts or don't want to be civil in ongoing discourse... it's the adult way to handle disagreements when consensus isn't forceable.
Flintlock76 243129 David Klepper, are you an Israeli citizen? If not, why not become one and contribute to the cause you admire and espouse so fervently? Let's not have any of that. I'm the one who started this thread, if it gets nasty I'll have it shut down. Play nice people. On a more positive note, I just looked at a chart put out by the CDC that indicates smokers are less susceptible to COVID-19 than non-smokers. Light 'em up boys!
243129 David Klepper, are you an Israeli citizen? If not, why not become one and contribute to the cause you admire and espouse so fervently?
David Klepper, are you an Israeli citizen? If not, why not become one and contribute to the cause you admire and espouse so fervently?
Let's not have any of that. I'm the one who started this thread, if it gets nasty I'll have it shut down. Play nice people.
On a more positive note, I just looked at a chart put out by the CDC that indicates smokers are less susceptible to COVID-19 than non-smokers.
Light 'em up boys!
You'll have it shut down? Isn't that just a we bit presumptuous, if not flat out delusions if grandeur? Merely starting a thread does not confer ownership or control of it or any other special privileges. Those all reside with the Kalmbach moderators. There are many reasons why the complaints of many about Klepper's post are valid, among them the fair use doctrine on copyright infringement.
That said, the comment about Klepper's citizenship was out of bounds. Dual citizenship with Israel is legal, last I noticed.
EuclidI am not sure I understand your reference to the point of the 1%.
It's a codeword for 'the rich who run the world'. A bit like using the three little nested parentheses to avoid being too obviously perceived as overtly 'anti-Semitic'.
Always fun to have an external enemy you can demonize, especially with carefully-engineered straw-man-style arguments. This has been happening with the Chinese in ways that are somewhat reminiscent of what happened to Germans in the United States in the years after 1917. (And can the Ruchstecke mentality against the 'Communist Chinese' be far behind when the economy 'turns out to be' unrecoverable in many ways?)
I'm certainly no admirer of the Communist system in China and the various schemes it has developed. The problem is in assuming that everything that is of Chinese descent, or that comes from China, is part of that "them".
And that everything coming from China is 'cheaper' than its American-fashioned counterpart. We felt the same way about the Japanese in the '50s and '60s. They fixed that ... with our significant help ... by the '80s (and went on to own 1 out of every 6 acres of land in America). If that by itself significantly affected the American way of life, I haven't seen it; while it's possible that Commie ownership of much of America might produce the kind of intentional crashing of American business that ... oh, say, buying up gun factories to close them and make patents unavailable, or buying up shares of coal companies at an artificially-depressed price with the intent of manipulating their management, would, I suspect it might be no worse than a considerable amount of the American small-business bourgeoisie already seem to be so capable of.
daveklepper“Our newest fully automated device, called AnapnoGuard, constantly monitors the trachea so that it is sealed and adjusts the pressure so that it is at the lowest possible pressure, while it also removes the secretions.
The immediate question I have for them is how they get around suppression of the gag reflex with the balloon inflated 'where it would have to be' to get proper seal. This might be especially pronounced if the pressure is being dynamically changed periodically. At least some drugs that suppress gag reflex also tend to depress CNS, which is a potential issue when people have to be taken off ventilators for many reasons.
I am increasingly upset with the stated survival rate for intubated-ventilation cases; by at least one expert opinion only 20% are surviving. That can't be ignored too much longer.
The second question is how, and with what materials and techniques, do they do the periodic lavage to keep issues of microbiological development, perhaps including an analogue to TSS, from developing in the mass of secretion that (in untreated patients at least) will be building up on the nasopharyngeal side of the balloon? They indicate that this is done continually, probably via suction ports in the device, but don't mention if the secretions need to be thinned or sterilized, or how they are kept segregated properly from caregivers. Those details need to be formalized in the context of COVID-19 complications.
Studies that we have done in Israel and Europe show that the number of patients who developed complications significantly dropped: for example from 26% to 7% in the study in Israel, from over 30% to less than 15% in Italy.[/quote]
Convicted One,
I am not sure I understand your reference to the point of the 1%. I see that Miningman referred to “the .1%.” In any case, maybe those are the people manufacturing in China, and not the market for Chinese products. Those business owners certainly would benefit from “Made in China.”
But the main beneficiaries would be the American people who have no concept of product quality. They are the ones on Cloud Nine. And I am certain that the average price they pay is way less than what it would be if the products were made in the U.S. Our cost of hiring an employee is probably twenty times higher than it is for China to hire an employee.
If China is really the rabid communists that cheat and lie about everything, as Peter Navarro preaches, we have no business dealing with them. And the people who preached free trade with them 30 years ago really must have had their heads in the sand to miss the obvious.
So, I say let’s get out of China now. We will take an economic hit, but now is the best time for that because it will go unnoticed as our country lingers on the verge of economic collapse for a few years recovering from this pandemic. Then in just ten more years, we will emerge strong and triumphant with an economy that really is “roaring.”
The following URL:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-monday-april-13-20200413-xjvloe2cbzfa3d44onpff2xt7i-story.ht
gives more than 448000 people Recovered from the Coronavirus World-wide and some detailed information on the situation in Flordia - but without giving the Florida recovered number.
alphas I'm tired of all the endless speculation about everything. Especially from most of the US press which seems to be doing its best to install FEAR in everyone. First, that everyone was going to be sick and so many die. Second, that the economy is going to tank forever and the only way to avoid that is have Federal Government control so much of it we'll be a full socialist country. As for the blame game, as far as I'm concerned the legitimate targets are communist China and WHO. (The more I read in depth about China's influence with the WHO and particularly with its current leader, the more I'm concerned it has been too compromised to be trusted in the future.) China because they've been having problems with their "wet" markets for years but haven't done anything about it as well as their ongoing attempt to deceive the world as to what was actually happening to the point of outright lying. I look throughout US and much of the world and I don't see any leader who wasn't caught offguard by the serverity of this outbreak. [Korea was lucky. Due to the internal pandemic they had several years ago they were still stocked up with the needed supplies. With that very recent experience were able to rapidly get their emergency teams moving quickly. That also meant they were able to avoid the drastic lock-downs that so many other of the countries have.] Two of them did at least do something early--Trump and the Italian premier who both issued edicts concerning flights from communist China within hours of each other in late January. Of course, then all we heard for the next several weeks from almost all the US news media and every dem politican was how terrible and racist Trump was to do that. This is the same news media that coninues to ignore the mistakes so many politicians like Como and DeBlassio made throughout February and into March. Dave, if you thing the Washington Post does not have a political agenda that drives them you are living in a dream world. It is a little better than the NY Times as it still has a fact checker who will call out the worst of the left's lies along with any garbage from the right. For example, he did call out the left for their claim that Trump said that coronavirus "was all a hoax" giving that a totally false rating. Of course, it still hasn't stopped the dems from claiming that in the dem black money TV ad that keeps running locally. The ad takes bits of various Trump's speeches and strings them together so as to give a false narative of what he actual was saying. I have many acquaintants who are passionate democrat supporters who vote straight ticket. Since higher academia is now about 90% democrat in most areas of the US, that's to be expected given my many years working in it. But I am suprised at how many of the faculty openly have said that they hope that the economy crashes and the US goes into a 2nd Great Depression if that's what it takes to defeat Trump. What's even more troubling to me is how too many of them want a level of socialism in this country that's definitely to the left of European socialism--something that's close to communism. [Anyone who doesn't understand or doesn't want to believe that academics who have passionate political beliefs do communicate them to their students is naive.]
I'm tired of all the endless speculation about everything. Especially from most of the US press which seems to be doing its best to install FEAR in everyone. First, that everyone was going to be sick and so many die. Second, that the economy is going to tank forever and the only way to avoid that is have Federal Government control so much of it we'll be a full socialist country.
As for the blame game, as far as I'm concerned the legitimate targets are communist China and WHO. (The more I read in depth about China's influence with the WHO and particularly with its current leader, the more I'm concerned it has been too compromised to be trusted in the future.) China because they've been having problems with their "wet" markets for years but haven't done anything about it as well as their ongoing attempt to deceive the world as to what was actually happening to the point of outright lying.
I look throughout US and much of the world and I don't see any leader who wasn't caught offguard by the serverity of this outbreak. [Korea was lucky. Due to the internal pandemic they had several years ago they were still stocked up with the needed supplies. With that very recent experience were able to rapidly get their emergency teams moving quickly. That also meant they were able to avoid the drastic lock-downs that so many other of the countries have.] Two of them did at least do something early--Trump and the Italian premier who both issued edicts concerning flights from communist China within hours of each other in late January. Of course, then all we heard for the next several weeks from almost all the US news media and every dem politican was how terrible and racist Trump was to do that. This is the same news media that coninues to ignore the mistakes so many politicians like Como and DeBlassio made throughout February and into March.
Dave, if you thing the Washington Post does not have a political agenda that drives them you are living in a dream world. It is a little better than the NY Times as it still has a fact checker who will call out the worst of the left's lies along with any garbage from the right. For example, he did call out the left for their claim that Trump said that coronavirus "was all a hoax" giving that a totally false rating. Of course, it still hasn't stopped the dems from claiming that in the dem black money TV ad that keeps running locally. The ad takes bits of various Trump's speeches and strings them together so as to give a false narative of what he actual was saying.
I have many acquaintants who are passionate democrat supporters who vote straight ticket. Since higher academia is now about 90% democrat in most areas of the US, that's to be expected given my many years working in it. But I am suprised at how many of the faculty openly have said that they hope that the economy crashes and the US goes into a 2nd Great Depression if that's what it takes to defeat Trump. What's even more troubling to me is how too many of them want a level of socialism in this country that's definitely to the left of European socialism--something that's close to communism. [Anyone who doesn't understand or doesn't want to believe that academics who have passionate political beliefs do communicate them to their students is naive.]
Being a retired professor, I'd say the political perspectives in academia depend on the department, which institution and in what state. There are good reasons why many are progressive, though not so many are to the left of European social democrats. In Germany, that party has always been called the SPD (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands) and the same in Czechia, perhaps elsewhere. As to your 90% number: since you quantified it, since you say you have an academic background , then you would know you need to provide documentation for such a claim.
Euclid,
I can only hope that you are right. But as Miningman pointed out, the offshoring was in service to the 1% who can afford to buy policy.
I didn't notice the retail price of refrigerators go down when GE and others started making them elsewhere, so I doubt they will volunteer to give up those gains now.
China may very well lose it's appeal as an off shore source, but there is cheap labor to be exploited elsewhere, so I expect the titans of industry to look there, first. I'd like to think I am wrong about that. But I doubt it.
Convicted One Miningman Whole towns have been reduced to welfare enclaves. Used to be this , used to be that. Not to overlook that as many companies off-shore their production, competition for the remaining jobs increases, with a downward pressure on pay where frequently the skilled workers are forced to take available jobs below their skill levels. Perhaps morbid, but could this pandemic realign the job market back into a sellers market?
Miningman Whole towns have been reduced to welfare enclaves. Used to be this , used to be that.
Not to overlook that as many companies off-shore their production, competition for the remaining jobs increases, with a downward pressure on pay where frequently the skilled workers are forced to take available jobs below their skill levels.
Perhaps morbid, but could this pandemic realign the job market back into a sellers market?
Returning product manufacturing to this country from China will dramatically raise product prices. But that will be somewhat offset by better paying jobs and far better product quality. Also consider that cheap products from China has taught our U.S. marketing how much consumers are willing to sacrifice quality for a lower price. So I am sure that U.S. companies can take up the slack by manufacturing poor quality as well as the Chinese do.
In great part in honor of this thread, I've decided to change my signature for the time being. Just replace the "...has a mind to do" with "...has a mind to believe." (I didn't want to alter Ben Franklin's words.)
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
MiningmanWhole towns have been reduced to welfare enclaves. Used to be this , used to be that.
The only way that the corona virus could have been stopped was if action had been taken in Wuhan in December 2019 when it became apparent that this was a very contagious virus. Unfortunately any such effort was shut down by the local government. The only way that the virus could have prevented from entering the US was if the US sealed all of the borders before Jan 1, 2020 (or perhaps a few days before).
There is plenty of blame that can be passed around for the mistakes and lost opportunities in the US response, with the vast majority of the US news media included. Probably the best example of how to "do it right" was Taiwan, which shut down traffic from the PRC and implemented a crash program to make face masks and well as implementing a testing and tracking program - with this effort starting early January.
Didn't say there were none! Just a lot have gone, a lot of industry. Going to get worse with automation coming as well.
Whole towns have been reduced to welfare enclaves. Used to be this , used to be that.
Burlington is my home town, I'm well aware of what's going on, have 3 daughters, one in Burlington, one in Toronto and one in Owen Sound.
When all the hoopla about Ferguson Missouri was going on I saw a report of all the industry and business that had left town way prior to the problems. There were a lot. I was quite surprised by that and realized the economic devastation that left behind.
Miningman- as far as there being no blue collar jobs anymore, that is wrong! I am in factories all day long in Southern Ontario for insurance purposes. The average household item is made in China, but do you want a forklift, a streetcar, an automobile, a skyjack lift, a jar of Hellman's mayonaisse, sausages, ravioli and other food items? All are made here. The landing gear for the 2-story Airbus aircraft was made in Oakville, the heat treating of the landing gear legs was done in Burlington. There's a Dupont plant in Kingston that does lost-wax castings. I've been in all these places and what is making mayonaisse but industry?
daveklepper Israel has diverted military and police to the fight against the virus. If resiurces available had immediately been put to use to develop the program, would it not already stated to reduce the impact of the virus? And as proven by France, Trump could have done a lot worse than he did.
Israel has diverted military and police to the fight against the virus. If resiurces available had immediately been put to use to develop the program, would it not already stated to reduce the impact of the virus?
And as proven by France, Trump could have done a lot worse than he did.
Dave,
To your point I highlighed in red, I would say the answer is: "Not a chance."
A new system for mass testing and contact tracking would have had to be available as the first case of the virus reached this country. Prior to that, nobody anticipated the need. If the new system could have been designed and executed within say 2-4 weeks, It might have slowed down the spread somewhat. But I think the system would require at least a couple years to develop and be ready for any degree of application.
Regarding your comment in blue, you say Trump could have done worse. That seems to suggest he did not do as well as would have been possible. What is it that he did not do, but could have done to mitigate the danger?
jeffhergert zugmann Overmod "...Yet not enough to suspend these completely rediculous and draconian attendance policies* that were shoved down our throats..." *policies that were not agreed to in any contract, I might add. Zug, does your company have the ability to include lesser holidays (Mother's Day, Father's Day, Halloween, etc) and other non-holiday days (Superbowl, day after Thanksgiving, etc) under the heading as 'peak days?' Here's ours, took effect March 1. https://www.bletstlhub.org/files/TE%26Y%20Attendance%20Policy%20V10.pdf "...Even if you have a doctor's excuse, they do not have to accept it. They can still terminate someone over attendence even if you have valid documentation for the absence..." Jeff
zugmann Overmod "...Yet not enough to suspend these completely rediculous and draconian attendance policies* that were shoved down our throats..." *policies that were not agreed to in any contract, I might add.
Overmod
"...Yet not enough to suspend these completely rediculous and draconian attendance policies* that were shoved down our throats..."
*policies that were not agreed to in any contract, I might add.
Zug, does your company have the ability to include lesser holidays (Mother's Day, Father's Day, Halloween, etc) and other non-holiday days (Superbowl, day after Thanksgiving, etc) under the heading as 'peak days?'
Here's ours, took effect March 1.
https://www.bletstlhub.org/files/TE%26Y%20Attendance%20Policy%20V10.pdf
"...Even if you have a doctor's excuse, they do not have to accept it. They can still terminate someone over attendence even if you have valid documentation for the absence..."
Jeff
Talk about DRACONIAN attendance policies for an employee force that is not bound by leg irons or handcuffs in their workspaces...
Maybe, with the 'blessings' of the various craft's buisiness agents; the railroads might, or maybe, should bring back attendance measures such as keel-hauling. or possibly, even flogging; fhey might be more appropriate to insure cooperative attendance in the work place?
After all, they worked for hundreds of years to discipline British royal navy sailors, and even, in the younger, Continental navy, at times.
Not a technical report .. it's opinion. In addition I am a Mining Guy, from industry , not a teaching academic grad, Certainly do not claim to be a Professor. Just your friendly neighborhood Exploration Geologist and Undeground Grade and Ground Control Fella.
Over a period of 12 years now I have graduated well over a hundred Mining Technologists , 99% of them Aboriginal , all successful and all keep in touch with me.
Miningman daveklepper Listening to the advice of the best experts who have demonstrated competence and doing the best possible to follow their recommendations. And thank you for asking the question. What a load of garbage that statement is. There are any number of ex-spurts on numerous networks all blathering on with their own view. Cripes first it's no masks, then masks, then make your own masks. There is so much political noise mucking up the picture it's impossible to tell one ex-spurt from another ex-spurt. Back in the 80's we find Fauci yet again, blathering on about the AIDS epidemic and that everyone needs to carry paper showing they are free of the thing and renewed every 3 months. That AIDS was transmitted by kissing, scared the beejeezuz out of everyone. If you listened to ex-spurts in France you'd be dead, and if you're not they will assist with euthanasia. Our ex-spurts sold out manufacturing and the middle class and a lot of blue collar employment to MADE IN CHINA all for the benefit of the .1%, but golly gee all that defective crap sure is cheap. In the truest sense of the word. They say this is a war. Yeah with China, and guess what? They already won. You mean to actual accept that after 911 and Anthrax that we learned nothing, that a surge of 4,000 hospitalizations 'overwhelmed the system' ... in New York City! China is one move away from Checkmate. Replacing the US dollar as the worlds currency reserve is next. They actually think ahead. The Murderous Barbarian Chinese Communist Wuhan Coronavirus , ( or the MBCCWC, as we are fond of doing) ( Hebdo is in orbit, calm down) finds us in a suddenly un- churched world and a flattened one at that. As for up here in the GWN ( great white North, which it sure is this year) Trudeau's government of submissive boot licking of communism combined with cluelessness, pathological lies and imbecility has left us with very few tools left to fix the economy. There are your ex-spurts.
Listening to the advice of the best experts who have demonstrated competence and doing the best possible to follow their recommendations.
And thank you for asking the question.
And you claim to be a professor?
MiningmanOur ex-spurts sold out manufacturing and the middle class and a lot of blue collar employment to MADE IN CHINA all for the benefit of the .1%, but golly gee all that defective crap sure is cheap. In the truest sense of the word.
But just think about all the high paying logistics jobs that were created, not to mention construction jobs raising bridges, deepening harbors, and daylighting tunnels..
The Washington Post article is definitely blaming Trump for not doing enough to fight the virus. But I think their argument is bogus becasue the reason we do not have their recommented national program of testing/contatct tracing is not because Trump refused to create that system. Yet that is the impression the article conveys.
It was impossible to create and operate the test/trace system without years of development and eye popping cost. Our society has never seen such a system to be justified, and so the collective wisdon has never embraced it as an objective.
So when this virus came calling, we had no national system because our society never thought we needed one. Only now, with the virus here, do we suddenly see the national test/trace system as being essential. But it is still years off in development, and is bound to face fierce resistance from the people who will be constantly scrutinized. In no way is the lack of this system due to any decision by the President.
Expert, Dr. Fauci is today saying that if expert advice had been followed, we would see fewer deaths today from the virus. Yet in January, he was dismissing the threat as being nothing to worry about. Shortly after that, Trump restricted travel as Fauci downplayed the risk.
Euclid, both leaders made statements that contradicted warnings from medical experts. The Washington Post article made that clear in the case of Trump. Did you get a different impression from the article than I did? Or are you challenging the statements made in the article?
On another thread, it was suggested that if all New Yorkers had been required to wear face masks much ealier, the problelm would not be so severe there. Others have suggested that "social distanfing" should have been practsed earlier.
Anyway, if you have facts that indicate that either Trump or Netenyahu consulted with medical experts having experience in controling viruses, before making their first statements concerning the virus, tell us about it, and we can all learn from you. My memory is that Trump first dismissed the virus as unimportant and that Netenyahu indicated that normal medical procedures with nothing like face-masks or social distancing would have things under control. Am I wrong?
daveklepper Listening to the advice of the best experts who have demonstrated competence and doing the best possible to follow their recommendations. And thank you for asking the question.
How do you find the best experts, and how do you know they are best? Are the best experts in perfect agreement about the approach to the problem? What will the best experts say is the proper time to lift the stay home orders? Would it be defying the best experts to lift the orders on 5/1/20?
Never mind.....
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