...........and Dakotafred, THANKS.
Tom
ACY, I respect your opinion, and agree with what you wrote. However, I still have to ask the question:
Would not a change to the kinds of service provided on Acxela preserve quality, make work easier, and resullt in less of a monitary loss?
DAVEKLEPPER:
I was careful to disassociate myself from Amtrak policy because I'm not a policy maker and I'm not an official spokesman, and I don't claim to know all I would need to know in order to be those things. My relatively brief experience working on the NE Corridor was over 20 years ago, way before Acela was even thought of. I see no reason that quality should be a problem for a well-trained, experienced dining car crew, provided they are given the proper food to prepare and the proper equipment to use. That being said, no chef can do much with a pre-prepared meal that is packaged in such a way that the chef isn't allowed to do anything except follow the directions printed on the label. For example, Kosher meals are set up that way. They are placed, unopened, in a convection oven (NO, NOT A MICROWAVE) and taken out at the designated time. The chef is absolutely forbidden to deviate from the printed instructions. If the passenger doesn't like it, then blaming the chef is like shooting the messenger (Our diner's microwave oven is mostly used for thawing, by the way).
Pre-prepared meals might eliminate some of the work. I don't know whether it would make the chef's work easier because the Company would cut a job if they could, and the chef would probably have to do more tasks that were previously done by others. I'm also not so sure about saving money. Think of it this way: You could go to the store and buy a bunch of TV dinners and live on them for an indefinite time. On the other hand, you could go to the same store and buy some beef, some chicken, some turkey, some seafood, some pork, plus bread, vegetables, etc. Then you could prepare your meals one at a time. The second option probably gives you better meals, better balance and nutrition, and better economies. The difference is in whether it's worth paying for the labor to do it the second way. Also, is it cheaper for Amtrak to wash dishes every evening after serving 200 sleeper passengers, or is it cheaper to replace 200 place settings IN EACH DIRECTION with disposable plastic every day, 365 days a year? (Coach passengers already eat on plastic). I don't know the answer.
For passengers travelling short distances, abbreviated meal service makes sense. On an overnight train (17-1/2 hrs. on the Auto Train), people are not going to be satisfied with a simple sandwich. On "two night" trains to the West Coast (which I have not worked), passengers will not want to eat the same thing tonight that they had last night. Many years ago I had the misfortune to travel by Greyhound from the S.F. bay area to New York City by Greyhound. Greyhound had recently shut down a lot of the old Post Houses and contracted with Burger King to provide enroute meal stops. After that trip, it was several years before I could stand to pass by a Burger King, much less eat there. I don't think we want to do that to our passengers.
Many of our passengers have special dietary needs. If they have sensitivities to milk, wheat, etc., then we can prepare their meal without sauce, or make some other appropriate adjustment. Your options are more limited when you're serving pre-prepared meals.
One of the reasons for the Auto Train's success, I think, is simply volume. We carry four Superliner coaches and six Superliner sleepers. At this time of the year, the southbound train tends to run full. That's over 400 passengers and over 200 automobiles that aren't contributing to the crowding on I-95. In the spring, those snowbirds will be going back north. Of course, we have some empty seats in the reverse direction. During the summer, northern families are going round trip to see Mickey Mouse in Florida, and Florida families are taking round trips to DC, NYC, etc. College students go back and forth to schools between terms and for holidays. Many of our older folks are of an advanced age, and many can't fly for medical reasons. I say this to emphasize the fact that what works on the Auto Train won't NECESSARILY work on all other long distance trains.
I can think of some ways we can economize, and have shared these ideas with my supervisors, and will continue to do so as long as I work there. So have a lot of my coworkers. Whether these ideas will be (or should be) implemented is out of our control.
These are complicated issues, and deserve serious consideration. I don't claim to have all the answers, but some of the comments have reminded me of the Bard, who said "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." (Maybe that's too strong, but I couldn't resist).
I began riding trains solo at age 10, 1942, and dining car meals were always a highlight of the trip. My memories are too many to even be summarized here. But around 1970, age 28, I began a path to become an Orthodox Jew. At first this meant avoiding pork and shellfish, then, from about 1980 to moving to Jerusalem in 1996, avoiding meat altogether. I insisted, for example, on continuing to enjoy the Rocky Mountain Trout on the RGZ. But much of the time I preordered Kosher meals, for dinner Kosher-fish-vegetarian, which Amtrak had (has?) as an option. I believe from personal experience that Amtrak used and may still use Wilton Caterers, who did and may still supply El Al, including first class on their planes. I found Amtrak's Kosher meals up to the then high standard of regular dining car meals, which at times I still enjoyed, because not all trips could be planned sufficiently in advance and because there were last-minute changes. Even when there was nothing vegetarian on the menue, the dining car staff was always able to improvise something good. I have nothing but good to say about any of the dining cars I used, regarding both food and service. (Obviously the period of Amtrak's "cafateria service" on the Florida trains was a mercifully-short low-point, but not really bad, only substandard compared to before and after.) My only bad experiences were with New York Central and Penn Central snack cars, which I learned to avoid.
Based on my experiences with prepackaged Kosher meals, and good reports, both on this website and corresponance from friends, about the food on Acela, I think it should be possible to have equivalent quality with prepackaged meals. No reason the menue cannot be varied.
When you were on the job, did you get complaints about any of the Kosher meals or other prepackaged special diet meals? How often and as compared with regular meals?
Have you sampled what Acela provides, especially in first class?
Your further comments will be appreciated and should be valuable.
More questions for you. If you never experienced Acela (I have not either, just relying on others' reports) perhaps you, like I did, experience Metroliner 1st Class? I considered the food very good, but the portions a bit small.
Have you ever taken long international flights? I have not for the last 17-1/2 years, but before that a lot. With the exception of a flight to and one returning from South America, Caracas, I thought the food served me ranged from good to excellent. My very first international flight was on an Air France jet to Paris in 1960. The longest was 15 hours South African Airways to Johannasburg. (A seatmate on one SAA flight was Alexander Hamilton III, and some readers may have known Alex, one of the founders of the Seashore Trolley Museum, among other railfan activities, including involvement in the Mt. Washington Cog at one point. On another flight a famous black jazz performer.) I will admit that I always investigated the food reputation of the airline before deciding, but the experiences did show me that prepackaged meals can be better than the "TV dinners" you mention.
Boy, Dave, you sure get up early in the morning! I do too when I'm working, but not on my days off. Currently I'm taking some personal business days. Otherwise I'd be on the road now.
I haven't ever been on Acela, and haven't been on any trains in the electrified territory in a long time, so I can't give any up to date info on those services. I agree that it would be good to hear from somebody who has done that work, but I'm hesitant to discuss what I don't know.
I don't remember the name of our Kosher provider. As to cost, I don't have the numbers available right now, but I seem to recall that the price of the Kosher meals that Amtrak provides is not much cheaper (if at all) than the meals prepared by the chef. This is according to the paperwork that the LSAD (Lead Service Attendant - Diner) works with. Now, these are the figures that the accountants work with. They include amortization, operation, and maintenance of the equipment, in addition to the cost of labor and the cost of the food itself. Remember, we are talking about the amortization of cars that cost a couple million to build, plus maintenance. And the newest Superliners are about 20 years old, so maintenance costs must be pretty significant. If you ignore these expenditures, then you can't run the diner at all. Somewhere along the line, somebody mentioned the combining of lounge and diner service on the Capitol Limited. It was suggested that crew size remained the same, so the elimination of one car didn't save any money. I was under the impression that at least one job was eliminated, although I'm not sure. In any event, it saves money if you're hauling one less 100-ton car from Washington to Chicago and back.
I'm glad you enjoyed the Kosher meals, but I don't think I've ever heard any passenger rave about how good a Kosher meal was. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever heard a really serious complaint about them either. I have frequently been told to thank the chef for grilling a (non-Kosher) steak just right. Occasionally a passenger will receive the Kosher meal that he ordered, and decide that the steak being served to the guy across the aisle looks better. So he decides he'd rather have the steak (or chicken, or fish, or whatever). The cynic in me sometimes asks if I've just witnessed a religious conversion, but that's not for me to judge. You have to find humor where you can if you want to stay sane.
For anybody who doesn't know, Amtrak can provide Kosher meals and some other special meals WITH ADVANCE NOTICE. We usually have only enough of those supplies aboard to cover the needs of those who have pre-ordered them.
Oh --- I should add that my previous comment about sound & fury & signifying nothing applies mostly to the bloviation we get from Congress. I won't name names.
Sent my last one before I saw yours.
My experience with Metroliners and airlines is pretty limited. I haven't flown in years, and it's been a long time since I've been in electrified territory. I suspect the purchase price of a really high quality pre-prepared meal may not be a lot higher than the price of a lousy one. Let's pull some numbers out of thin air for an illustration, since I don't know what the real numbers are. Let's say the cost of amortization, maintenance, and operation of the diner is 50% of what we have to charge to break even. The cost of the food is 25%, and the cost of labor is 25%. I'm certain that these figures are wrong, but they will serve to illustrate the issue. Maybe Amtrak could buy a cheaper product and reduce the food cost to 23 or 24%. Or they could buy a superior product and increase the percentage to 26 or 27%. Would that provide enough savings to solve the problem? Probably not.
However, long distance trains need some kind of food service, and some of these costs are unavoidable.
Somebody mentioned vending machines. That feels to me a lot like Greyhound's Burger King solution. I can imagine serious problems with operation of vending machines that are subject to the constant jostling on the train. Back in the days when the Auto Train used Heritage cars, we had electric pianos in the ex-GN Great Dome lounge cars. There were three cars in the pool: one southbound, one northbound, and one in reserve. One car had a terrific piano; one had a piano with several keys that didn't work; and one had a piano that didn't work at all. The contract piano repair man never seemed to be able to be available when the car was. So that situation persisted until we got the Superliners. I suspect we would have the same problem with vending machines. Imagine a car full of hungry passengers who can see the food in the machine, but can't get to it because the machine is out of order. And the repair man is 500 miles away.
I'm no guru. I don't have all the answers.
Also, I don't think we could get away with selling alcoholic beverages via vending machines. I'm not much of a drinker myself, but I recognize the plain fact that a lot of people want to drink when they travel. I don't even want to think about what wine goes best with a tuna salad sandwich from the vending machine.
ecoliI flew Lufthansa in coach last month, and the meal I remember centered on a dish full of gravy. From beneath the waves of gravy I fished out a white mass of chicken or pork (it was advertised as chicken, so I'll assume that was true) and a handful of green beans. In one corner was another mass, the color of the chicken but the consistency of the gravy, which I decided must be mashed potatoes. The dessert was a microscopic square of some sort of cobbler, and although the identity of the fruit was ambiguous, it might have been tasty had it only contained some trace of sugar.
Yeah you know you have to make a fair comparison here. Schlim referenced meals he paid for in a DB restaurant car. We are all talking about meals in an Amtrak diner for sale to coach passengers but included in First Class fare.
Your bringing up an example of the cheapest fare on Lufhansa in which your not paying for the meal but it is given to you for free..............how is this even on the same level as the rest of the discussion here? Why not discuss the quality of food you got in a homeless shelter somewhere to Amtrak.....that would be a close analogy of what your doing comparing cut-rate Lufthansa Coach complimentary meals to what is served by Amtrak and CHARGED to coach passengers. Apples and Oranges.
Now if you flew Business Class or First Class then maybe you might have had a point. Still until you do a First Class to First Class comparison OR you actually pay for the meal. Your not comparing on the same level.
CMStPnPYour bringing up an example of the cheapest fare on Lufhansa in which your not paying for the meal but it is given to you for free..............how is this even on the same level as the rest of the discussion here?
I am not at all sure the report from "ecoli" is factual. I fly Lufthansa usually 3-4 RT's annually, on coach and i have never been served a meal remotely like the one he referenced.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
If you know people who regularly fly or even just have flown once on El Al, which is the international carrier I used most often, I think you may hear complaints about crowding, not enough leg room for a very tall person, etc, noisy chidren, etc., but never about the food. It has always been delicious for me, regardless of which class i had. I would say the same about South African Airlines, and I also had good experiences with Air France and Delta's international flights, and Hungarian Airlines, and I would say reasonably good experience with old TWA, British Airways and its predicessor BOAC. I won't mention which carrier I used to and from Caracas, and I did not choose the airline, and it was not the "local national flag". I have heard that the differences between food services on Lufthansa in the different classes are greater than they are on most airlines, but I never have flown on Lufthansa. (My South African friends always called it the Luftwaff, and also complained about the meals they had when they flew on it, coach class.)
Regarding Kosher passengers opting at the last moment for a non-Kosher steak. I can say with certainty that a Kosher steak is less tastey than a non-Kosher one. The blood is drained from Kosher meat. That is a requirement, an Observant Jew is not allowed to drink blood of any type. But I am also a vegetarian. And Kosher fish is just as appatizing and tastey as non-Kosher fish. This is true of eggs and just about everything else. Indeed, one doesn't have to (or didn't have to) order in advance to be assured of Tropicana orange juice and Philadelphia bagels in Amtrak cafe cars, and those have the OU (Orthodox Union) label for Kosher certification. So, incidenally do a lot of Scotch wiskeys and Bourbons! (My health regimine at 81 prevents me from enjoying that fact, however..)
If traditional dining service can be kept on Long Distance trains, I am all for it. But I would not wish to see the end of LD service simply because food costs cannot be controled, or for that reason along with others.
Dave ---
Absolutely! As I said, I'll be retiring in a few months, so I wouldn't be directly affected by the staff reductions implicit in many of these comments. But I hope to do more Amtrak traveling after I retire. Also, I have a lot of very hard working friends who would be affected.
But none of this is free. There are no free meals on airlines, buses, cruise ships, or anywhere else. Our Auto Train passengers may not pay a separate bill for their dinner, but the cost is included in the price of their ticket. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
schlimm CMStPnPYour bringing up an example of the cheapest fare on Lufhansa in which your not paying for the meal but it is given to you for free..............how is this even on the same level as the rest of the discussion here? I am not at all sure the report from "ecoli" is factual. I fly Lufthansa usually 3-4 RT's annually, on coach and i have never been served a meal remotely like the one he referenced.
I could likewise say that I am not at all sure your statement is factual. But rather than question each other's integrity, wouldn't it be more civil to agree that our experiences have been different, and that we simply disagree?
As for the comparison between Amtrak and Lufthansa, I offered it as a response to a statement by oltmannd ("For starters, don't cook on the train! It reduces the throughput in the diner as people have to sit and wait for their meal to be cooked, instead of being served. The meals aren't any better than what you get at Applebees, and I've had food served to me on the train that's been tepid. I'd be hard pressed to say that the meals I've had on the CZ, Autotrain and Crescent were much better than the ones I've had on Lufthansa.") I thought it relevant to say that my experience of Lufthansa was different from his.
I hope that when you retire and get experience in riding Amtrak trains, that you will "make the necessary noise" to try to get some of your better ideas implemented, without fear of "not using the chain of command." (Yes, all railroads have similarities to the military.)
Further comment on Lufthansa. My South African friends complained about the food and called it The Luftwhaff, but they continued to use it on their European trips because of a low fare.
Kosher cooking of meat is of course a fine art. I don't eat meat, but at the Yeshiva and as a guest in Rabbis' homes with their wives excellent cooks I see chicken and shnitzel and chopped liver with onions and turkey and kreplach, dough pastry with groung meat filling, etc. Steak is not the only way to prepare meat by a long shot.
In my long distance riding Amtrak days, I would vary the ordered Kosher meal: Kosher fish, Kosher strict vegetarian, Kosher eggs, Kosher dairy. Never went hungry and never was boared. All seemed good quality to me . But I always made an exception for the Rio Grande Zephyr and never asked Leonard Bernstein to have a Kosher meal on that train. That train was far too close to my heart to not sample its regular fine cuisine. I always had Rocky Mountain Trout for dinner, French Toast and cereal for breakfast, and I think either a pasta and tomato sauce or a Welsh Rarrebit lunch.
It was not tough giving up riding or driving on the Sabbath (Saturday). Or seeing movies on that day or handling money. What was really felt as a hardship was giving up the steak dinner on the Broadway Limited. That was the only real hardship.
Good memories, Dave. As for me, I'll never forget the baked apple dessert on the old B&O Capitol Limited.
ecoliI thought it relevant to say that my experience of Lufthansa was different from his.
And your experiences on Amtrak different from mine....
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
...the PRR cookbook is on line, here: http://prr.railfan.net/documents/PRRDiningCarDept_CookingInstructions.pdf
It's fun to peruse.
Oltmannd:
Those railroad cookbooks are neat, & it's fun to try to replicate the recipes at home. Following a recipe may be a skill, but grilling Dave's steak to perfection at 70 mph or more is an art. I can't do it, but we've got Amtrak chefs who can.
Terrific cookbook. But I see that in my transition period when I began by avoiding pork and shellfiish products but still ate non-Kosher meat, that I was fooled when I had chicken on PRR diners, even on the Senator between NY and Boston, because the stuffing and gravy they used did have ham or bacon elements. Didn't know that and enjoyed the chicken. Too late to worry now. (PRR dining car crew worked the Senator, NYNH&H the Colonial.)
ACY: I like the way you are proud of your colleagues in the dining car, and I especially appreciate your kind words about the chefs cooking those mouth-watering steaks at 79 mph. Whenever I eat in The Lake Shore Limited's dining cars I go out of my way to say a kind word to the chefs as well as you waiters. I hope you know how much all your efforts and services are appreciated.
Now, when are those trains on the Water Level Route again going to serve Lobster Newburgh?
Well, NKP Guy, I sure can't answer that one. Those decisions would probably be made by someone at the Amtrak test kitchen in Wilmington. I don't think we've ever had the Lobster Newburgh on my train. I'd probably remember if we had, because I'm allergic to Lobster. I could serve it, but you don't want to know the consequences if I ate it! It's a minor inconvenience. Better to be allergic to the expensive stuff. I really feel sorry for the folks who can't tolerate wheat or dairy products. They have it rough!
As for my coworkers, they're like everybody else. Not necessarily perfect, but mostly nice, down-to-earth folks who are just trying to do a good job, sometimes under difficult conditions. It's easy to respect people who deserve respect.
Just curious in relation to the Auto Train, or any overnight schedule that roughly mirrors itself in each direction, could you keep the crew bases or each end and have a point where the dinning crew got off very late at night to go to a hotel, to reboard very early in the morning? It would require a dedicated crew van or two, but one of the crew could be paid to drive it with a supplement. The savings from crew sleeper dorm space sold to passengers would offset the hotel bill quite substaintially.
The alternative would be to move the crew bases so that you got on very early in the morning, worked till arrival serving breakfast, took a break, helped clean and turn, took a break, started dinner preparations, and then worked back to a very late evening arrival back at the home base. It would also require a crew van so the crew could catch a late train at another station. The paid hours would pile up pretty quickly such that only three trips a week would be full employment.
Hello, V.Payne:
I'll have to think about this one. At first thought, I think it would mean even less sleep than we currently get (and that's not much) or way too much time wasted at the rest location. Assuming 3 dinner seatings on a full southbound train, it would mean finishing the last seating at 11:00, getting off the train at Florence SC around 11:30 PM, then catching a van to a hotel, checking in, getting to the room, and getting to bed around 12:00, assuming I don't take the time for a shower. Then what would I do in the morning? I couldn't catch the northbound train because it passed Florence around 1:00-1:30 AM, while I was sleeping. What if the train is late? I'd sit around on the train from 11:00 PM till arrival at the rest point (for argument's sake, let's say 3:30 AM). In any case, who works breakfast on the northbound trip? And after I do the evening shift described, when do I work again? Also, there is no "very late evening arrival" on the Auto Train unless we are obscenely late. As a veteran of Hurricanes Fran, Hugo, Danny, and others, I can tell you that kind of lateness is no fun for us or the passengers.
Here's how it works: There are 5 onboard service (o.b.s.) crews, and each one spends 3 calendar days on the road, with 2 days off between trips. All are based at the north end. Shifts start at different times, depending on the job. In general, everybody reports between 11:00 AM and 1:00PM. Crew 1 picks up the train from Crew 4 at Lorton while the train is being serviced by the Mechanical & Cleaning crew. Crew 4 has done an inventory before they went off duty, and has ordered the supplies Crew 1 will need, based on ridership estimates. The Commissary truck arrives with the order and the crew takes on the stock and sets up the train: 3 dining cars with 2 working kitchens; 2 lounges; 4 coaches; and 6 sleepers, 2 of which are unique to the train (no economy rooms upstairs; ten bedrooms instead) The sleeper attendants have rooms in their own cars, but the chefs, food specialists, lounge attendants, wait staff, and coach attendants have rooms in the Crew car. It may be the only Amtrak train where the entire transition sleeper is needed for the o.b.s.crew. Set-up activity is interrupted at 1:00 for a general crew briefing to discuss safety and any necessary issues. This usually takes 30 minutes or so.
Setup of the train continues. Boarding of passengers begins at 2:30 and is usually concluded by about 3:00 - 3:15 or so when doors are secured. The train is assembled with auto carriers on the rear. Maximum length is 50 units (2 P40's; 16 passenger cars, and 32 auto carriers). We don't always have that many auto carriers, but we often approach that length.
Late afternoon, cooking begins in the diners. First dinner seating is at 5:00; second is at 7:00; and third is at 9:00. We can usually finish about 11:00 PM and go to the crew car for rest. That's 10 - 12 hours on duty. We eat whenever we get the chance.
Train arrives Florence around 11:30 and the Lorton - Florence T&E crew is replaced with a Florence - Sanford T&E crew. Hopefully, I'm asleep by then, but there are always SOME members of the crew available for passenger needs. Engines refueled; diner water tanks replenished; trash removed; service animals walked; smokers get to take a smoke break IF CSX puts us on a station track where it's safe (not always).
5:00 AM on Day 2: Get up & have the diner ready to begin breakfast service at 6:00. I'm often up before 5:00. Serve continuously until around 8:00 - 8:30, then prepare for arrival. Try to have everything put away before the cleaning crew boards. The train often arrives early. 8:00 isn't unusual. This can be a problem (we don't make passenger stops along the way, so we never have to hold at a station waiting for time).
Assuming an on time arrival (nominally 9:30) on Day 2, we can be released upon arrival UNLESS we have to cut out a car for routine (or unexpected) maintenance work. If that happens, the time needed to swap all contents of the car is taken out of our layover time. With all crew members pitching in, we can usually accomplish this in a half hour to 45 minutes.
We're free till 2:00 PM. Time for a shower, a shave, maybe a nap, and maybe a meal cooked by somebody else.
Then we report back at 2:00 and do the same thing on the return trip. We leave with a fresh T&E crew, but at Florence SC, there is a T&E crew change, and Crew 1 picks up the T&E crew they started out with, and arrives home on the morning of Day 3, after finishing breakfast service. Note that this schedule never has a full 8-hour uninterrupted rest period for o.b.s. personnel. That is legal because the Federal Hours OF Service Law applies only to operating employees, and not to the o.b.s. staff, who do not operate the train.
While Crew 1 is in Sanford, Crew 2 is picking the train up from Crew 5 in Lorton. Crew 1 makes out an order for Crew 3, who will pick up the consist and repeat the process. Crew 1 is off for 2 calendar days, and will pick up from Crew 4 when they get back from their next trip.
Since the diner crew is responsible for every bit of stock in their inventory, and since that stock must be inventoried each time there is a crew change, it is not practical to change diner crews enroute. We spend enough time checking inventory as it is.
So it's not as simple as it may seem. If you have a good idea, I'd love to hear it and I'm sure Amtrak would too. But there are a lot more factors at work than most casual observers realize.
Hope this was instructive. Sorry it took so much space, but anything less wouldn't have given a clear picture.
V.Payne:
Another way to look at is to simply remember that an A-T diner crew's sleep period is roughly from Florence, SC to Nahunta GA southbound; but northbound it's from somewhere north of Charleston SC to about Rocky Mount or Weldon, NC. There's no location where we could get off, go to a hotel, and get on a return train in time to serve breakfast. And again, what happens if one train or the other is late? Under the current scheme, we're on board and available no matter whether the train is late late or not. Also, CSX doesn't want us to stop for anything at any location other than the service stop in Florence, unless the DS says so. They wouldn't want to add a scheduled stop or two to put the dining car crew on or off.
Thanks, Tom, for the summary of a work tour for the dining car staff. Are the car attendants on the same schedule as you are--two days on and two days off?
Certainly, few of us who are not directly involved in the work know all the requirements and the limitations of your work.
Incidentally, I was in Florence one evening last month, waiting for #98 when the southbound Auto Train came in. At first, I did not realize what it was, and did not note the arrival time, and I also did not note the departure time, which was before #98 came in, a few minutes late.
Your description of your schedule reminded me of the passenger train crews on the IC between Canton, Mississippi and New Orleans, when the IC had four trains each way. They changed in McComb, Mississippi, and each crew would be gone for twenty-four hours, and have one day off before going out again. Except for the City of New Orleans, the crews changed southbound, and all ran about 400 miles before getting home. Incidentally, the conductors on the Panama Limited were brothers, so unless one took a trip off, they saw one another only when relieving one another. The City crews worked that train only; the other assignments were Southern Express southbound and Louisiane northbound, and Louisiane southbound and Creole northbound. The engine crews always in changed in McComb, so each had a run of about 100 miles;. I never did learn their schedule.
Johnny
Johnny ---
I just wrote a pretty good explanation, then the computer ate it. It seems to have vanished in the ether. I'm your basic Luddite, it you didn't guess. Anyway, let's try again.
It's not a 4-day rotation. It's 5 days. Each crew has all the service people the train needs. The schedule is 3 days on; 2 off. We depart home on day 1; arrive Sanford and turn around on day 2, then start back for Lorton late on day 2, arriving in Lorton in the morning on day 3. Then we get 2 days off, then we do it again. A 5 day rotation means it takes 5 full crews to cover the schedule, plus an extra board to cover for sickness, vacations, etc. I'm a member of Crew 5 & I generally work with the same people all the time. This means the same sleeper attendants (Don't call them Porters!), coach attendants (who double as servers in the coach diner), lounge attendants, chefs, Lead Service Attendants, etc. All-night positions are covered by the coach attendants. Jobs are bid twice a year. We can bid on the job we want, with seniority being the coin of the realm. Many years ago I worked on the extra board, then worked up from the less desirable jobs (like the all-night jobs) and now I can pretty much get my first choice when we bid. Some of the younger folks have asked me, "Hey Tom, when are you going to retire so I can move up in seniority?" Subtle, eh? Over the years I've also worked the sleepers. You haven't lived till you've made 43 beds on a southbound Superliner, then made the same 43 beds northbound the next night. This is in addition to the meals you have to serve in the rooms for passengers who aren't able to make it to the diner. Remember, we serve A LOT of elderly snowbirds.
Day 3 may seem like light duty because there aren't as many hours worked, but remember that it follows a very busy Day 1, and a very busy day 2 (usually about 12 hours and 13 - 14 hours respectively), with no sleep/rest period longer than about 6 hours. My friends know not to call me when I get home on Day 3. If I feel like going out for a meal at Bob Evans', I'LL CALL THEM. Lead Service Attendants in the diners and lounges work more hours on Day 3 because they have to stay and go over the paper work and turn their remaining stock over to the person who is taking their place for the next southbound run. Assuming an on time train, each of us usually racks up a little under 30 hours for each round trip.
I can't address the work schedules of the folks who worked the trains you referenced because I don't know enough about the schedules, the work rules in operation at the time, etc. You mentioned Conductors' schedules, and that's a whole 'nother thing. T&E (Train & Engine) Crews are covered by the Federal Hours Of Service Law, so they can't work over 12 hours at a time no matter what. O.B.S. crews are not covered by that law because we don't have a direct role in operating the train over the rails. There is no legal limit to the number of hours we can be required to work continuously, and no legal minimum amount of rest between shifts. This gets interesting and extremely challenging when the train is extremely late. Thank goodness, that's not too frequent.
Maybe this seems like complaining. In the 1970's, I lived in Chicago and had the great privilege of seeing & hearing Steve Goodman perform many times. One of his songs was called THIS HOTEL ROOM. He would introduce it by saying it's not a complaint about being on the road and sleeping in a strange motel every night. He said it's a privilege to be able to travel and perform for appreciative audiences, and the hotel-hopping was just something that came along with that. That's the same thing I'm doing here. I dearly love my fellow crew members and I really enjoy most of the passengers. I always say 95% of the passengers are wonderful people. We see the same faces year after year. About 3 to 5% of the passengers have problems that I don't know anything about: divorces; death or illness in the family; financial or legal trouble; problem kids -- you name it. Those things affect the way they behave & I know better than to take it personally. Then there's the other group, generally less than 1%, who were put on earth because God has a peculiar sense of humor.
But the fact is, the schedule can be brutal, and I'm not so young any more. Soon I'll be leaving to turn it over to the next generation.
Tom, I was not thinking when I wrote of two days on; thanks for making it clear to all.
As to the IC train crews, the actual time spent working depended upon the assignment, with the Panama and the City having less time on board that the Louisiane-Creole assignment, and much less than the Southern Express-Louisiane assignment. And, the time spent in Canton or New Orleans varied quite a bit.
Tom,
Thanks, I enjoyed hearing the Auto Train schedule from a operations standpoint and you clearly put a lot of time into composing a good explanation. I am on the infrastructure side of transportation but did a quick intern with rail freight operations. Has the schedule always been such where the OBS crew performs a lot of work before and after arrival even back into the days of Auto-Train Corp? Seems like a good use of employes that are already there.
As you pointed out the occasional Auto Train late arrivals and city-time mismatches would probably jinx any idea of making the end point crew base-hotel-return trip idea work.
Appart from the Auto Train, conceivably on trains like the Crescent say between Atlanta-Washington the through OBS staff might be supplemented with a crew base about five hours out from the arrival cities (maybe Lynchburg and Greenville), such that they started a day at 4:00 AM worked till 11 AM (schedule change to old pre-lunch arrival time into NYC) got off, rested, got back on, and then worked back to 11 PM. Those crew members are home every night, with a full day or two off between, and several sleeper spaces ($300-$400 a room a night) in the Viewliner are freed up for revenue generation. South of there crews would exchange in a short stop when the trains pass each other, having started from New Orleans and Anniston.
I can't address questions about the old Auto train under Mr. Garfield. But don't forget, they went bust. Whatever they did probably wasn't any more cost effective than what we do. I think they also had a lot of their meals catered (by Marriott, I think). I've been told we saved money because we assumed the responsibilities that Marriott had previously assumed, and Marriott's profits reverted to Amtrak. Several years later, Amtrak's commissary functions were contracted out, and they still are. I honestly have no idea which is the more cost effective model. All the old veterans of the private Auto Train are retired, I think, so there's nobody left that I can ask about that service. I started working on the Auto train in September, 1987, a couple years after Amtrak restarted the service. I'm sure Amtrak has always done it this way.
I'm kind of curious. If you and others didn't think we were responsible for taking on stock, stowing it away, and setting up our cars, who did you guys think did these things? I suspect you just never thought about it. That's not a real criticism; there are lots of things we all take for granted every day.
The responsibility of the LSAD (and his or her staff) to maintain a careful accounting is something a lot of folks seem not to understand. If there are shortages, they MUST be paid for. Guess who pays? Many years ago I was assigned to work the ex-GN "Great Dome" lounge. We were coming north. I was tired and got careless and left my cash unattended. Somebody swiped over 400 bucks and I had to make up the difference out of my own pocket. People who steal the attendant's money are not stealing from Amtrak. They are stealing from the attendant.
This being the case, you can probably forget about any scheme wherein an LSAD turns over stock to another LSAD without BOTH LSAD's being present to inventory whatever stock is being turned over. And don't forget, this takes some time to do. It can't be a quick "Hellohowareyouhaveanicetripgoodbye".
Now, if Amtrak institutes a whole new accounting system, it might be possible to do things differently. But who knows what form that new system will take? Who knows whether it will be better, or if it would allow some of the suggested changes? I have no idea what the chances are; I'm not a betting man.
To simplify the task of selling foods and beverages, many airlines have gone to a policy of accepting credit cards exclusively -- no cash sales. This simplifies the task of charging the customer as well as eliminating the security/accounting/currency conversion problems inherent in having a cash change fund.
Wouldn't Amtrak be better off by adopting such a system?
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