ACY,
I don't have access to Amtrak's books. Therefore, without it, I don't have a basis for making any practicable suggests on how to reduce the losses on the Company's food and beverage services. Neither do any of the other participants in these forums.
The key to participation in these forums is not to take them too seriously. That is not to say that you should not state your opinions robustly. You should. But it is important to recognize that no one participating in these forums, as far as I know, is associated with Amtrak's accounting and finance functions or is a member of Amtrak's senior management team. They would have the information regarding the Company's food and beverage operations and what improvements might be possible.
Accordingly, what we have is a lot of opinions (that's OK), some information from Amtrak's public documents, including the IG reports, and heaps of conjecture.
I appreciate your participation. You have give us some very valuable insights. Hopefully, you could encourage some of your co-workers to participate in these forums. I would love to hear from some car attendants, conductors, engine personnel, etc.
Dakotafred ---
Yes. The "Delphos Bullet" never had a diner, though. There are others who probably have a stronger claim to the use of those letters than I do, but it was the first thing that came to mind when I signed up. Born in Akron shortly before the road committed to dieselization, but have lived a lot of places since. Now in Maryland, but a charter member of the AC&Y Society (member no. 009) and still active. Involved in several articles for the Society's magazine, as well as Sunshine's HO Mather boxcar kit.
Thanks for injecting the lighter note. Sometimes I'm not interested in shop talk.
Tom
Sam1 ---
For most onboard service employees I know, they are working on the train to support themselves and their families. I believe many have the railroad in their veins but won't admit it. Most really enjoy the train, the passengers, and their coworkers, just as I do. But at the end of a trip, everybody is tired and unwilling to devote their free time to discussing --- or even thinking about --- that "great silver snake" that made them so tired. For me, I was interested in railroads and railroad history long before I hired out. If my color vision hadn't been an issue, I might have gone into one of the Operating crafts, but you have to accept what you have to accept, and do what you need to do. For most of the employees, they don't want to get involved in this type of thing. Much as I love the train, I have recently had reason to wonder whether it was worth the effort, as you have seen. So I doubt that I can talk any of them into joining us on the forum.
If there are any practicing onboard service people out there who want to prove me wrong, please be my guest!
ACY Dakotafred --- Yes. The "Delphos Bullet" never had a diner, though. There are others who probably have a stronger claim to the use of those letters than I do, but it was the first thing that came to mind when I signed up. Born in Akron shortly before the road committed to dieselization, but have lived a lot of places since. Now in Maryland, but a charter member of the AC&Y Society (member no. 009) and still active. Involved in several articles for the Society's magazine, as well as Sunshine's HO Mather boxcar kit. Thanks for injecting the lighter note. Sometimes I'm not interested in shop talk. Tom
Thanks, ACY -- always a pleasure to meet another Buckeye. I was born and raised in Cleveland, but like you have strayed far, since. You drive me back to the Classic Trains of an issue or two ago that, I believe, had a piece on the AC&Y. I must give it a closer reading this time.
ACYTo CMStPnP, I have to ask if the animosity began when I corrected your notions of crew basing on the Capitol Limited on Sept. 29 at 1:44am (discussion "Removing Passengers From Trains")?
It's a pretty one sided argument as I haven't engaged that much and I am not going to waste my time.
No animosity on my end. It's mostly your interpretations. You staged the drama about being insulted and not posting anymore.........which I have seen on other websites when someone doesn't get his way in a forum (certainly not my issue). Discussion forums are give and take. If you don't agree with someone just say so and leave the drama at home.
I already have my answer I was seeking on how much you knew or were willing to find out. Also, have my answer on how you view a passenger. I am sure schlimm does too. As I said before we will have to agree to disagree and we are carrying on the discussion. Not sure why that offends you so much but I am not going to stop posting because one poster is upset with my point of view and disagrees with me. It would not be a free and open discussion if I did.
Sam1 ACY, I don't have access to Amtrak's books. Therefore, without it, I don't have a basis for making any practicable suggests on how to reduce the losses on the Company's food and beverage services. Neither do any of the other participants in these forums. The key to participation in these forums is not to take them too seriously. That is not to say that you should not state your opinions robustly. You should. But it is important to recognize that no one participating in these forums, as far as I know, is associated with Amtrak's accounting and finance functions or is a member of Amtrak's senior management team. They would have the information regarding the Company's food and beverage operations and what improvements might be possible. Accordingly, what we have is a lot of opinions (that's OK), some information from Amtrak's public documents, including the IG reports, and heaps of conjecture. I appreciate your participation. You have give us some very valuable insights. Hopefully, you could encourage some of your co-workers to participate in these forums. I would love to hear from some car attendants, conductors, engine personnel, etc.
In other words, it is an opinion forum not an Auditors Report from a Big 5 Accounting Firm. Which I presume most people know already. In your direction I don't necessarily agree with your point of view that a person has to be a CPA and have access to the numbers all the time to make and educated decision. No matter what size business...........just doesn't operate that way. My Father was a CPA and he would only refer to the books on complex problems in which he could not see the issue standing on his feet. When I worked in support of GM top mangement, they were never audited by the IRS, in fact the IRS would negotiate with GM over what taxes they would pay because in the 1990's the company was too large to effectively audit and arrive upon a number to get taxed.
So in my view, your view that you always must have access to the books to make an educated decision is not always the case in the real world. I realize that is your point of view though and I respect it as your point of view. I just do not agree with it.
A person does not have to be a CPA to understand finance. Nor a mathematician to understand business mathematics. Nor a statistician to understand business statistics. But modern managers understand how these disciplines impact decision making and importance of beginning with quantitative analysis. Without a quantified, verifiable baseline, they are flying blind.
Even marketing people use quantitative analysis and sophisticated statistics to assess the market potential for the company's outputs and how to price them.
Anyone can lodge an opinion about any subject. But whether it is properly supported is another matter.
At the Fortune 250 company where I spent most of my working career, the IRS camped out in dedicated offices. That GM was not audited by the IRS is suspect. The IRS would need to have the numbers for any negotiations that it participated in.
The Classic Trains item was pretty good, although a couple errors crept in. Watch for a significantly larger publication of interest, some time next year. I'm heavily involved in that.
To analyze the Amtrak "food service" two key metrics would be: 1. labor cost per customer served on a specific route and compare them with other routes along with restaurant chains offering similar menus; and 2. Average time for patron service at a table, from sitting to leaving.
Why does Amtrak feel it is necessary to provide service in scheduled 1.5 to 2.0 hour "seatings?" Given the nature of limited preparation, why not use a come and go system with reservation slots every 30 minutes?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I finally got hold of a copy of the O.I.G.'s report on Amtrak food service and was appalled at the shoddy, incomplete research that was done, and some of the utterly ridiculous recommendations in the report. I first smelled a rat when I saw that the report ignores a significant fact that will probably always be with us: Dining cars are expensive to build, operate, and maintain. They have all the complexity of any other passenger car, plus extra plumbing, freezers, refrigerators, food warmers, steam tables, grills, convection ovens, dishwashing machines, etc. I believe the report reflects a political bias; and the O.I.G. seems to be of the opinion that those of us working in onboard service should be paid minimum wage. It's still a democracy, so I'm entitled to the opinion that the report contains so much misleading info that it is of almost no value at all and they don't deserve to be paid at all for their "efforts". Some may be surprised to hear that I think there are actually a few areas where they do make some worthwhile points, so maybe they should be paid something. Maybe $7.25 an hour (minimum wage).
They are right to address the failure of Amtrak to implement a useful point of sale accounting process. The cumbersome, byzantine 896 form, with its confusing format, should have been consigned to the trash can many years ago. A week or two ago, I mentioned that a point of sale system was proposed almost 20 years ago. The newest Superliners were only about a year or two old (mid '90's) when table 10 in the new diners was removed to make space for installation of equipment to facilitate this. Then the plan was dropped without much explanation. A better and more timely system of accounting would probably help a lot.
I found it interesting to read that the investigators visited several Amtrak sites, one of which was Lorton, VA. Absent from the list of visited sites was Sanford, FL. To me, this means they confined their Auto Train research to the Lorton operations and did not actually ride the Auto Train. If they had, they'd have found themselves in Sanford at the end of the trip. Nevertheless, they believe they are competent to comment on the delivery of service on that train. They are perfectly welcome to come aboard that train and shadow me as I work round trip. They can be on duty for the same hours I'm on duty; they can get as much rest as I get; they can eat when I eat; and they are welcome to keep up with me if they can. But they'll have to stay out of my way because I won't have time to play nursemaid to them.
On page 17 of their report, they say "Sleeper car passengers' transportation and meals are included in their ticket price." As long as I've worked on the Auto Train, I have understood that the same rule applied to coach passengers ON THAT TRAIN because the run is about 17 hours, overnight, and it's understood that there are no short hauls, so everybody needs meals. LSAD's keep careful account of all meals served to both coach and sleeper passengers, and submit that information with their paperwork at the end of the trip. At that point, onboard service personnel fall out of the loop. What is done with that info is out of our hands, and we have to presume that the separation of funds into separate "piles" for meal money and transportation money is done by somebody with garters on his sleeves & a pocket protector on his shirt & a green shade over his eyes. The funds for "complimentary" wine and cheese are also accounted for at our level in the same way. Nevertheless, on page 15 of the report, they say "...complimentary wine and cheese are offered to passengers on the Auto Train." The suggestion is that the passenger does not pay for it IN ANY WAY. Since those of us in onboard service have to account for these items in the same way as we account for the food, we have always understood that the passenger's ticket price was providing the money for the wine and cheese. We have never understood any of this to be a free gift to people who were not paying for it, although the payments have always been indirect. You can't have it both ways. Either the food & wine cost comes out of a portion of the ticket price, or it's free. I submit that it is misleading to suggest that it is free.
Actually, if you ask a sample group of Auto Train employees, many will say they would rather dispense with a lot of these complimentary extras, while retaining the idea of providing meals as part of the total experience on the train. I personally think every drop of alcohol consumed on the train should be paid for, separately from the ticket price. But that decision is made by folks considerably above my pay grade, so I do what I'm told to do.
Followers of this thread will not be surprised when I say again that I do not apologize for making a living wage in 2013, nor for anticipating a reasonably secure retirement next year, so I won't belabor that point. However, the actual pay for onboard service employees is not fairly represented in the report. I won't repeat the details of our work schedule, but I will remind everybody that the "hours worked" is not at all the same as the hours when we are on the road, away from friends and family, and subject to being called to duty at any time. In a normal month, I am paid for 180 hours' work. I make 6 round trips, or 12 one-way trips per month. For each round trip, I report to work at 11:30 A.M. on day 1 and sign out at 9:30 A.M. on day 3. That's 46 hours per round trip, or 276 hours per month when my time is Amtrak's and not my own. They have my body for 96 more hours per month than they are paying me. So I am actually paid for only 65.22% (rounded) of the hours that I am tied to that train. This discrepancy has always been discussed (never in print) as a "generous" wage that is being given because there is no other way to compensate us for those hours of being held away from home without pay.The figures cited by the O.I.G. indicate that onboard service employees receive $41.19 per hour in full benefits. To arrive at this figure, they used a formula that, strangely, does not factor in Auto Train or Palmetto Service figures. According to their own footnote, this $41.19 is the total of hourly wages plus medical insurance, railroad retirement, post-employment benefits (which are unspecified), dental insurance, disability insurance, life insurance, unemployment, railroad workers compensation, and administrative fees (I wonder how it is that an administrator has to justify his paycheck by charging his pay against mine). Take-home pay is considerably less. Many of these things are legally mandated anyway, so it's not up to me or the O.I.G. to challenge the validity of these extra benefits. However, the O.I.G. (pages 19-23) suggests that smart lawyers might find a way to get around these inconvenient benefits to which all workers should be entitled (my opinion, of course).
The report is unabashedly biased against the notion that ordinary people should be able to make a decent living. They actually suggest that the $7.75 per hour (with no benefits) that is paid to contract workers on the Downeaster (and other similar operations) could provide a model for future o.b.s. pay scales. I have a different view. I think it is scandalous that anybody, in 2013, could actually suggest that anybody can live on such a paltry sum, and it is absurd to think a stable, reliable, committed work force can be maintained that way. Workers who are forced to get by on wages like that are just going to qualify for money from the federal government in other ways, such as food stamps etc. Either way, the money has to be provided. I suggest it's better to do it with programs that allow people to maintain some shred of their pride and dignity.
Just ask yourself one simple question: Could you live on that?
I could say a lot more, but I think maybe I've made a point or two.
http://www.goerie.com/article/20131115/NEWS02/311159852/Authorities-probe-reported-hanging-at-GE-plant
ACY The report is unabashedly biased against the notion that ordinary people should be able to make a decent living. They actually suggest that the $7.75 per hour (with no benefits) that is paid to contract workers on the Downeaster (and other similar operations) could provide a model for future o.b.s. pay scales. I have a different view. I think it is scandalous that anybody, in 2013, could actually suggest that anybody can live on such a paltry sum, and it is absurd to think a stable, reliable, committed work force can be maintained that way. Workers who are forced to get by on wages like that are just going to qualify for money from the federal government in other ways, such as food stamps etc. Either way, the money has to be provided. I suggest it's better to do it with programs that allow people to maintain some shred of their pride and dignity. Just ask yourself one simple question: Could you live on that?
Sorry to say it looks like your country will be made up of a few billionaires and a majority making that minimum wage before long. They are making a big deal of this on certain Canadian boards (we have previously been affected by the EMD shutdown in London). My understanding is that it was a woman at the GE locomotive factory in Erie who found out her job was being moved to a non-union factory in the US south. It seems to be a sorry state for the majority of Americans.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-14/amtrak-serving-free-wine-to-steak-loses-millions-on-food.html
Yep. Saw that one, too. I give both reports about the same credence. It's true that economies can and should be realized. But these reports just don't show the way to do it.
"For every complex question, there is a simple solution .........which is wrong."
I would not look at it that Amtrak onboard employees are paid too much, quite the contrary. Agree that is the wrong way to approach the issue. If it were me I would look at more onboard revenue services that onboard employees could use to help close the gap. I would not eliminate all freebies either, I think that's stupid. For example, popcorn on movie night? That should be complimentary, the cost of making popcorn is so cheap, cost for cleanup of course because nobody can eat it without tracking it all over the damn carpeting. Wine and Cheese? Yeah not sure the Wine is of the quality where that would be a real money loser for Amtrak, if it is just a tasting the question is though.........does Amtrak sell bottles of wine at these events to passengers to take home with them? Maybe they should try to sell the wine after the tasting? The real business purpose of most wine tastings are to sell the wine..........not just to have the event for pleasure, IMO.
However, still stand firm on Amtrak getting rid of the food commissaries entirely where train frequency does not financially support them via economies of scale. I don't know how those commissaries can ever break even supporting just one or two long distance trains as some of them do. I would expect the commissaries are a large part of the loss but again I don't have any financial breakdown.
CMStPnP:
It's good to see that we've found areas where we can agree.
As you say, "the real business purpose of most wine tastings are to sell wine." Our lounge cars and diners don't have a means of selling the wines at the tastings because the only wines that can be actually sold are the usual splits, which are not the same product as the one being tasted. When the wine tastings started, the wineries of the Commonwealth of Virginia provided the wines at little or no cost to Amtrak, so that people might want to stop in the Lorton area and buy some locally produced wine at the end of their trip. The arrangement with the Virginia wineries ended for some reason that was never explained to me, and the wines we now provide may be from any State or country that produces wine. As far as I know, these are paid for through ticket revenue. So the original plan has probably been changed so much that it probably isn't practical or prudent to continue it.
It is more than three years since I rode the Coast Starlight, but full bottles of wine were sold at the wine tastings, and the wine was from West Coast wineries, and it was bottled for Amtrak.
Johnny
Didn't know that. It sounds good for the Starlight because it presents an opportunity for revenue. It probably wouldn't work on the Auto Train because the legal dept. says we can't sell liquor on the A-T in the morning because the Company obviously knows people are going to claim their cars in the morning and drive. They want to be sure we don't give any passenger an excuse for suing us for contributing to their misuse of alcohol in the morning, The logical conclusion seems to be that we shouldn't be selling full bottles because they might keep it overnight and drink it in the morning. Yes, I know lots of stores sell full bottles of wine to people who get in their cars and drive away with it and MIGHT drink it on the way home; and there was a time when a bottle of wine was given to the owner of the last car unloaded, as a consolation prize of sorts. But I think the current thinking of the legal dept. would be to avoid the legal risk, with the attendant bad publicity. It's pretty stupid, but that's the kind of litigious society we live in.
In our current wine tastings, wine is dispensed one glass at a time, between 3pm and 4pm, while the boarding process is finishing up, and the auto carriers are being attached. One of the sleeper diner staff conducts the tasting, then closes it at 4pm to start dinner preparations. Actual sale of wine splits in the lounge car is not a very big business, but it possibly could be.
ACYIn our current wine tastings, wine is dispensed one glass at a time, between 3pm and 4pm, while the boarding process is finishing up, and the auto carriers are being attached.
A really good idea that works really well! You get more customer good will from doing this than it could possibly cost.
The wine served is similar to what you can get for $10 for the 1.5 L bottle at supermarket, and is served as "house wine" at $5-7 a glass at restaurants. Cheap to do. Has high value. Can it be done elsewhere?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
CMStPnP I don't know how those commissaries can ever break even supporting just one or two long distance trains as some of them do. I would expect the commissaries are a large part of the loss but again I don't have any financial breakdown.
I don't know how those commissaries can ever break even supporting just one or two long distance trains as some of them do. I would expect the commissaries are a large part of the loss but again I don't have any financial breakdown.
According to the GAO report (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg75420/pdf/CHRG-112hhrg75420.pdf) the commissaries have been operated by contractors (Dobbs, Gate Gourmet, and now Aramark) since 1999. Aramark is an enormous company which presumably realizes substantial economies of scale. Their corporate web site talks about customers who wouldn't appear to do a large volume at any one site (company cafeterias, "senior living" facilities, etc.) Amtrak wouldn't seem to differ from such customers in volume, although Amtrak obviously differs in other ways.
ecoli CMStPnP I don't know how those commissaries can ever break even supporting just one or two long distance trains as some of them do. I would expect the commissaries are a large part of the loss but again I don't have any financial breakdown. According to the GAO report (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg75420/pdf/CHRG-112hhrg75420.pdf) the commissaries have been operated by contractors (Dobbs, Gate Gourmet, and now Aramark) since 1999. Aramark is an enormous company which presumably realizes substantial economies of scale. Their corporate web site talks about customers who wouldn't appear to do a large volume at any one site (company cafeterias, "senior living" facilities, etc.) Amtrak wouldn't seem to differ from such customers in volume, although Amtrak obviously differs in other ways.
Is it just me, or is it unnerving to see someone with the handle "ecoli" commenting on food service. J/K
I think you should read the fine print in the report. The commissaries are owned by Amtrak, Amtrak pays a contractor to manage them, which only frees up a few Amtrak Management positions. That does not mean they are making money or that there is no expense to Amtrak beyond the contract to manage fee. The losses from operation are passed back to Amtrak.
Its the same type of deal if you hire a contractor to manage an apartment building you own. You are asked to pay the expenses and upkeep, the contractor just manages the maintenence and renters that apply for a lease. You swallow the annual loss if the contractor cannot find enough people to rent.
Amtrak needs to sell the commissaries, lock stock and barrel. Perhaps this contract to manage is a first step. If it was me though I would have sold these commissaries back in the 1980's. No idea why Amtrak is hanging onto them.
Look at the $6 cost to produce a hot dog that it costs Amtrak and the $4 Amtrak gets from selling it. Where is that $6 cost comming from? It's not the cost of the Chef popping it into the oven............it's the cost of production from the commissary primarily.
CMStPnP I think you should read the fine print in the report. The commissaries are owned by Amtrak, Amtrak pays a contractor to manage them, which only frees up a few Amtrak Management positions. That does not mean they are making money or that there is no expense to Amtrak beyond the contract to manage fee. The losses from operation are passed back to Amtrak.
Many of Aramark's customers (corporate cafeterias, universities, senior living facilities, etc) own their own facilities, so Amtrak is not unusual in that regard. Could you cite a source for your statement that contracting out the commissaries "only frees up a few Amtrak Management positions"? The Amtrak inspector general report (http://www.amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/oig-a-2014-001_0.pdf) states that when the contracting began in 1999, Amtrak paid severance to 330 union members who were laid off.
This thread has gone on for 20 pages now, and I have found it interesting. However, if the thread title was changed to "Railroad to End Food Losses" it could have been started anytime in the last 100 years, and I suspect that situation will prevail so long as trains are operated for more than commuter distances.
ecoli CMStPnP I think you should read the fine print in the report. The commissaries are owned by Amtrak, Amtrak pays a contractor to manage them, which only frees up a few Amtrak Management positions. That does not mean they are making money or that there is no expense to Amtrak beyond the contract to manage fee. The losses from operation are passed back to Amtrak. Many of Aramark's customers (corporate cafeterias, universities, senior living facilities, etc) own their own facilities, so Amtrak is not unusual in that regard. Could you cite a source for your statement that contracting out the commissaries "only frees up a few Amtrak Management positions"? The Amtrak inspector general report (http://www.amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/oig-a-2014-001_0.pdf) states that when the contracting began in 1999, Amtrak paid severance to 330 union members who were laid off.
Actually, Amtrak is unusual in that regard in that the commissaries are operated apart from the trains in seperate facilities. The examples you cite, most are operated out of a integrated with the rest of the facilities.......onsite cafeteria in which subsidized food service is considered a benefit or perk the facilities are part of a larger facility and most of the overhead is covered by the other uses. In Amtraks case it is a "for profit" service line as mandated by Congress. These are stand alone commissaries which have no other use than to prepare food and Amtrak pays the overhead. It's great they cut staff by 330, it still does not mean they are not losing their shirts on the operation or contracting out of the service. Still don't know how you get a $2 loss on a $6 hot dog just via onboard service personell...............do you? I could hand carry the ingredients and get a better return than that. Obviously that is comming from the Commissary operation primarily.
Follow the money.
Others have the same perspective on LD dining services, including Boardman. Here is a Fred Frailey article. Note that almost ALL of the food service $74 mil. loss is on the LD trains.
A hurrah for the Republican congressman from suburban Orlando and frequent Amtrak critic. Maybe I need to revise my opinion of the man (for what I said about Mica in July, go here). Amtrak has pledged to end its food service losses, which amounted to $74 million in fiscal 2013, within the next five years. And you can thank Mica for prodding Amtrak toward this announcement.
Mica, chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure until this term, has been on Amtrak’s case for a couple of years to reduce its food service losses. He’s held hearings and, frankly, been downright ugly and obnoxious about it. I attributed his behavior to grandstanding for the folks back in his district (he was seriously challenged for the Republican nomination by a tea party candidate in 2012). And frankly, I thought the food service loss was a cost of doing business and that the economics of it couldn’t be improved much more.
It turns out, according to Amtrak president Joe Boardman, that the dining cars on long-distance trains account for virtually all of that $74 million loss. The cafe cars used on short-distance trains virtually break even. So if you can eliminate that loss, you have lowered the deficits of the long distance trains by $74 million. What’s not to like about that?
Left unsaid is how that loss will be erased. Yes, the press release listed a few initiatives, but the only one that impresses me as having much potential is for cashless sales in the dining and cafe cars; I’ve heard that when airlines went to payment for food and beverage by credit or debit card only, receipts went up typically by 15 percent. Figure that one out.
More likely, Amtrak will have to rethink its whole dining car service. The model it already has for this is the meal service in the Acela first class cars. The first class passenger has a choice of four entrees at each meal. All are precooked and reheated in the galley of the car—no cooks, no spoilage. Turn up your nose at it, but the meals (if a bit on the skimpy side) taste fine to me and not like they’d just been microwaved to death. These dishes on the Acela, by the way, are referred to by Mica as gourmet dining.— Fred W. Frailey
Maybe we can get together on this. I again asked ACY to sample Acela first class. I agree with Fred. I had experience (lots of it) with both regular 1st class Metroliner meals and with special Kosher both on Metroliner and LD trains, and I definitely agree with Fred on this.
At the same time, ACY showed that dining cars cannot come close to breaking even unless they have multiple servings with reasonably full seating at each. So I propose the coach passengers as well as sleeper passengers have meals as part of the ticket on long distance trains. This may raise the price of coach tickets, but actually may raise patronage when people figiure in the total cost of the trip, if at the same time the costs to privde the meals can be reduced while quality is retained. If people don't like Amtrak service, there is always the bus. Corridor Amtrak service has a responsibility to reduce congrestion, but the mission of LD trains is varied and different, promoting tourism, giving handicapped and elderly adequate access to the country, providing backup and emergency travel, and serving isolated communities, particulary in winter, that lack other passenger service. Except for possibly the last mission, there is no need for Amrak to offer the lowest cost ground transportation, but rather provide a high quality service that is priced reasonably for the service offered. To me, hgh quality service includes providing appetizing and nuitricious meals, not necessary five star gourmet.
daveklepperAt the same time, ACY showed that dining cars cannot come close to breaking even unless they have multiple servings with reasonably full seating at each. So I propose the coach passengers as well as sleeper passengers have meals as part of the ticket on long distance trains. This may raise the price of coach tickets, but actually may raise patronage when people figiure in the total cost of the trip, if at the same time the costs to privde the meals can be reduced while quality is retained.
Disagree with you on the point of making the meals included in everyones fare. I think it has to stay pay for meal in addition to the ticket. Once you make it automatic then Amtrak has no reason to monitor quality because they get the money regardless of quality of the meal. Additionally, Passengers have no way to measure value because they cannot see the price breakout of the meals.
Modified: Thursday, Nov. 28, 20
RALEIGH, N.C. The Rail Division of the N.C. Department of Transportation is touting a move which feeds passengers on its Raleigh-to-Charlotte train while saving money.
Until 2002, NCDOT offered traditional café-style food and beverage service on its Piedmont train, including a café car with lounge and booth seating and a fully-equipped galley.
However, that arrangement cost NCDOT approximately $350,000 per year after sales revenues were applied to total labor, product and maintenance costs.
Research and passenger surveys led NCDOT to switch to self-service vending machines for food and beverage service. Based on recent analysis, vending machine revenue averages about $2,700 per month, while the average monthly bill for supplies, maintenance and depreciation totals around $2,000 per month.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
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