Yes, Paul, perhaps we should all go back to the original post and re-read it, for it does not posit a change in what is served, though, as some have mentioned, there could be improvement there.
I am looking forward to a trip I have planned for early next year--up to Canada, and ride the Canadian from Vancouver to Edmonton to Jasper and back to Vancouver, with a side trip to Prince Rupert. VIA used to post the Canadian menus (a different one for each day) on its website; now it only tells us that we can enjoy good food on this train.
Johnny
"Hello Chilli's of Annsiton? This Amtrak train 19. We'd like to order 10 Chicken Caesar Salads, 25 Chicken Fajitas, 15 Beef Fajitas, 17 Shrimp Fajitas, 10 bacon cheeseburgers (etc. etc.) . We'll be in Anniston at 10:00 AM. Roger, that! Yes, we're on time today. Invoice Amtrak as usual. Bring the food in the usual racks. We have three from last night's dinner to leave with you. Tell the Meridian Chilli's we'll be giving them a call about 3 PM. Thanks. See you at the station! Amtrak train 19 out! What? Yes, I know this is a cell phone - old habits die hard."
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd But, if the passenger experience is equal or better and the cost is less, how can it not help rather than hurt? There HAVE been many suggestions by many people of plausible ways to improve both the cost and quality of the food and service. For starters, don't cook on the train! It reduces the throughput in the diner as people have to sit and wait for their meal to be cooked, instead of being served. The meals aren't any better than what you get at Applebees, and I've had food served to me on the train that's been tepid. I'd be hard pressed to say that the meals I've had on the CZ, Autotrain and Crescent were much better than the ones I've had on Lufthansa. Go to self-serve as much as possible. I don't need an attendant to get me a can of soda, a bag of chips, a pack of M&Ms and a pre-packaged deli sandwich. I can do that myself. Let the attendant do higher value work. Automating the sales and inventory system is one think Amtrak is trying. That will allow sal4th es to start before the train departs and continue right to when it stops....without a leaky cash drawer!
But, if the passenger experience is equal or better and the cost is less, how can it not help rather than hurt?
There HAVE been many suggestions by many people of plausible ways to improve both the cost and quality of the food and service.
For starters, don't cook on the train! It reduces the throughput in the diner as people have to sit and wait for their meal to be cooked, instead of being served. The meals aren't any better than what you get at Applebees, and I've had food served to me on the train that's been tepid. I'd be hard pressed to say that the meals I've had on the CZ, Autotrain and Crescent were much better than the ones I've had on Lufthansa.
Go to self-serve as much as possible. I don't need an attendant to get me a can of soda, a bag of chips, a pack of M&Ms and a pre-packaged deli sandwich. I can do that myself. Let the attendant do higher value work.
Automating the sales and inventory system is one think Amtrak is trying. That will allow sal4th es to start before the train departs and continue right to when it stops....without a leaky cash drawer!
All very good points. But just isolating the food losses without knowing what increased passengers loads will do is a 4th level study. None of us know what the food looses if any are on auto train ? Since auto train almost meets all operating costs that might be a place to study ? Do the coach passengers pay for meals on Auto train ?
blue streak 1 Do the coach passengers pay for meals on Auto train ?
But, I think I see your point. Since food is "required" on Autotrain, they probably have high productivity of the labor force in the diners.
oltmannd I'd be hard pressed to say that the meals I've had on the CZ, Autotrain and Crescent were much better than the ones I've had on Lufthansa.
I'd be hard pressed to say that the meals I've had on the CZ, Autotrain and Crescent were much better than the ones I've had on Lufthansa.
I flew Lufthansa in coach last month, and the meal I remember centered on a dish full of gravy. From beneath the waves of gravy I fished out a white mass of chicken or pork (it was advertised as chicken, so I'll assume that was true) and a handful of green beans. In one corner was another mass, the color of the chicken but the consistency of the gravy, which I decided must be mashed potatoes. The dessert was a microscopic square of some sort of cobbler, and although the identity of the fruit was ambiguous, it might have been tasty had it only contained some trace of sugar.
By contrast, on the Coast Starlight a year and a half ago I had a steak indistinguishable in quality (to me) from one I would get at a shopping-mall-chain steak restaurant, plus some artisanal dessert pastries to die for.
I don't mean to say that Amtrak shouldn't be trying a lot harder to operate efficiently, or that there isn't a clever solution out there to be found for trains outside the NEC. But I think you're overselling the idea of how trivial it is to find that solution. In particular, I don't think the airlines offer proof that it's easy. Consider that almost all US carriers except Southwest have been through bankruptcy in the past decade or two, and have mostly eliminated meals on routes where they don't compete with foreign carriers. Why are we assuming they didn't lose as much money on food as Amtrak does?
Does anybody have info about the food on Amtrak California? The menus (http://www.amtrakcalifornia.com/index.cfm/travel-info/food-and-beverages/) look only a little less attractive then the ones for the Acela cafe, but I haven't had the opportunity to try them out myself. I'd be curious to know whether California contracts for food service independently of Amtrak, and what the profit/loss is.
oltmannd blue streak 1 Do the coach passengers pay for meals on Auto train ? I don't think so, but they don't get the "free" wine and cheese after boarding! Autotrain typically runs three diners. Two for coach and one for first class. But, I think I see your point. Since food is "required" on Autotrain, they probably have high productivity of the labor force in the diners.
It's is quite easy to find out what differences there are between sleeper and coach class travelers on Auto Train. Go to Amtrak's site, go to Meals and Dining under Rider's Guide, then to Meal Choices and Menus at a Glance under Meal Offerings and Menus, and you will find a dinner menu for coach class and a dinner menu for sleeping car class. The traveler in each class pays for his meal when he buys his ticket. I do not know what difference there may be in the breakfasts offered.
ecoliI flew Lufthansa in coach last month, and the meal I remember centered on a dish full of gravy. From beneath the waves of gravy I fished out a white mass of chicken or pork (it was advertised as chicken, so I'll assume that was true) and a handful of green beans. In one corner was another mass, the color of the chicken but the consistency of the gravy, which I decided must be mashed potatoes. The dessert was a microscopic square of some sort of cobbler, and although the identity of the fruit was ambiguous, it might have been tasty had it only contained some trace of sugar.
Sounds like the meal I had on British Air. The Lufthansa meal was a cut above. Could be the source of meal varies from hub to hub.
ecoliBy contrast, on the Coast Starlight a year and a half ago I had a steak indistinguishable in quality (to me) from one I would get at a shopping-mall-chain steak restaurant, plus some artisanal dessert pastries to die for.
I've never had a steak on Amtrak as good as the small filet from Outback or Longhorn. The dinner salad Amtrak serves is pretty poor - not even up to fast food quality.
The point is, if the food on Amtrak isn't quite up to mass market restaurant quality, why not just get the food from them? They are everywhere!
I could not disagree more. My wife and I have travelled Amtrak in sleepers for many years, and have always eaten in the dining car. I always order the steak on the first night and have gotten great meals. My only complaint is that all of the trains in the country have the same menu. After going from New York to the west coast, one can get tired of the same menu every night. The desserts have always been great. Ice cream does melt you know. If it is hard now, wait five minutes.
Poco Valley
pocovalleyI could not disagree more. My wife and I have travelled Amtrak in sleepers for many years, and have always eaten in the dining car. I always order the steak on the first night and have gotten great meals.
Tell me about the salad....
More to the point, how would you compair your great steak with whatever you ate first class on Acela?
The issue should revolve more around the kind of food service that the market demands. Many in the advocacy community demand no less than a full-service dining car with white linen tablecloths, attentive and obsequious waiters and a fully-equipped kitchen. This kind of operation appears to always have been a red-ink entry, even in the pre-Amtrak era. After years of the type of food service that used to be provided by the airlines, the market no longer expects a dining experience comparable to a two or three star restaurant. Amtrak needs to address the needs of the market in terms of what it wants and expects, which is probably not a full-service dining car. Snack bars and cafeteria-type arrangements may be better attuned to current needs for food service.
oltmanndTell me about the salad....
Amtrak:
Chic-fil-A
McDonalds
Amtrak has a nicer bowl....that's it.
McDonald's is on their dollar menu - and also serves "Newman's Own" salad dressing in the same packets.
Sam1 Muralist0221 In 45 years of flying, have had one good meal on airlines, even during the "golden age" of flight (old Frontier). Feel Amtrak foor is 6-7 on a scales of 10. Then. of course, there's the great Southwest with its offering of 30 peanuts. Southwest figured it out. Most people don't want an airplane meal; they want low fares and frequent service. Peanuts will do just fine. Southwest has turned a profit nearly every year since its inception. Amtrak offers meals of dubious quality served up by a wait staff that in too many instances has an attitude problem. Since its inception, which was around the time that Southwest lifted off, it has lost more than $40 billion when adjusted for constant dollars.
Muralist0221 In 45 years of flying, have had one good meal on airlines, even during the "golden age" of flight (old Frontier). Feel Amtrak foor is 6-7 on a scales of 10. Then. of course, there's the great Southwest with its offering of 30 peanuts.
In 45 years of flying, have had one good meal on airlines, even during the "golden age" of flight (old Frontier). Feel Amtrak foor is 6-7 on a scales of 10. Then. of course, there's the great Southwest with its offering of 30 peanuts.
Southwest figured it out. Most people don't want an airplane meal; they want low fares and frequent service. Peanuts will do just fine. Southwest has turned a profit nearly every year since its inception.
Amtrak offers meals of dubious quality served up by a wait staff that in too many instances has an attitude problem. Since its inception, which was around the time that Southwest lifted off, it has lost more than $40 billion when adjusted for constant dollars.
I dare you to go via Amtrak from LA to Chicago on 30 peanuts
Have fun with your trains
oltmannd The point is, if the food on Amtrak isn't quite up to mass market restaurant quality, why not just get the food from them? They are everywhere!
Nice pictures that show the differences in the salads, Don. The Amtrak picture reminded that even if you do not get a large salad, you should have quite of variety of Paul Newman's salad dressings to choose from. Does any other eatery provide such a variety?
ecoliEverywhere?
El Paso would work.
ecoliMaybe you can pay Applebee's to package everything specially so the hot stuff goes into the fridge on the train and gets reheated later, and the dinners get reassembled by Amtrak.
Sure, why not? Why not leave it to the provider to figure it out?
ecoliSome time ago, you were offering us visions of sleeper service by Hilton or Cunard if Amtrak would simply outsource it.
For what the fares are, it should be close, no? Is Amtrak providing that? You don't paint a very rosy picture with your own remarks. In fact, you make is seem that Amtrak is failing the food service game - they are doing you the favor serving you. I always wondered where the PC charm school graduates went.
Is any of this simple. Heck no. What Amtrak does every day is not simple. So, "not simple" is a good excuse for "lousy product"? Building automobiles is not simple. Anyone want a Yugo? (BTW, I have it first hand we got the "good" ones!)
If you give the provider some incentive to "do good", you might just get good.
The Xanterra analogy is interesting. I have had mixed experience. The campground they ran at the Grand Canyon was run-down, but functional - that in 2004. I don't know if they would or even could improve it or if they were just the operator. I wonder if most of the ills of NP lodging are the result of budget woes - lack of capital. Xanterra doesn't own them.
The Gift Shop and Cafeteria they ran in RNMP was first rate, however.
Deggesty Nice pictures that show the differences in the salads, Don. The Amtrak picture reminded that even if you do not get a large salad, you should have quite of variety of Paul Newman's salad dressings to choose from. Does any other eatery provide such a variety?
Most fast food joints have 6 or more varieties on the menu. If memory serves, Amtrak has some variety - pretty much the standards...
ecoli"this is so straightforward and obviously superior that those guys at Amtrak must be idiots for not having done it years ago".
They are not idiots. But, what they are doing isn't working well - and they have little incentive to do anything different. But, why should that be an excuse for us to not demand better...in every way.
I'm not saying I have all the answers and every detail nailed. Far from it. But, it's not my job to do their job. It's their job. We just need to demand that they do it! (or our trains might finish vanishing)
blue streak 1 There has not been a single post IMHO that can show that a change in the food service to a no loss position would not cause an increase in the total loss of a route by the loss of certain passengers ? That includes the NEC ? What is needed is a cost analysis of each route of food cost losses that then are translated into number of passenger or more accurate RPMs needed to cover those losses ? SAM1 ?
There has not been a single post IMHO that can show that a change in the food service to a no loss position would not cause an increase in the total loss of a route by the loss of certain passengers ? That includes the NEC ? What is needed is a cost analysis of each route of food cost losses that then are translated into number of passenger or more accurate RPMs needed to cover those losses ?
SAM1 ?
Without access to Amtrak's books, as well as its incremental pricing and costing models, which probably came from a consultant, it is impossible to know what impact pricing on-board meals to cover their full cost would have on passengers.
Some people might not travel by train if the price of on-board food is perceived to be too high. However, a significant percentage of the dining car patrons appear to be from the sleepers. The cost of their meal is baked into their first class ticket. They don't know how much meals are costing them and, therefore, as long as the price (cost) of the meals is included in the first class ticket, increasing it may have little if any impact on them.
ecoli Sam1 Five years to eliminate the losses on its food and beverage services? Wow! It is a good thing Amtrak does not have to play in a competitive market. Can you image McDonald's or Chili's saying that it will eliminate the losses on its restaurants in five years? A business, especially a so-called established business, does not get that much time to turn around its losses. I thought I'd check the veracity of the last sentence of that paragraph. The financial press releases from American Airlines are available at http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=117098&p=quarterlyearnings. They show annual losses for 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012, at which point American declared bankruptcy and (probably thanks to the ability to apply cramdowns to its vendors, creditors, and employees courtesy of the bankruptcy laws) started showing a profit. (For one of those years, the press release trumpets an annual "net profit" excluding "special items" but a loss overall. I'm going to be a curmudgeon and say that a loss is a loss.) Yet American Airlines is still around, and is still considered valuable enough that US Airways is fighting the US Justice department in court to be allowed to merge with American. So I would say that contrary to the assertion above, an established business does get 5 years to turn around its losses. I don't contend this should make us happy that Amtrak's timeline is so long, just that there's a disconnect between reality and slogans about the invariable wonderfulness of private corporations.
Sam1 Five years to eliminate the losses on its food and beverage services? Wow! It is a good thing Amtrak does not have to play in a competitive market. Can you image McDonald's or Chili's saying that it will eliminate the losses on its restaurants in five years? A business, especially a so-called established business, does not get that much time to turn around its losses.
Five years to eliminate the losses on its food and beverage services? Wow! It is a good thing Amtrak does not have to play in a competitive market. Can you image McDonald's or Chili's saying that it will eliminate the losses on its restaurants in five years? A business, especially a so-called established business, does not get that much time to turn around its losses.
I thought I'd check the veracity of the last sentence of that paragraph. The financial press releases from American Airlines are available at http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=117098&p=quarterlyearnings. They show annual losses for 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012, at which point American declared bankruptcy and (probably thanks to the ability to apply cramdowns to its vendors, creditors, and employees courtesy of the bankruptcy laws) started showing a profit. (For one of those years, the press release trumpets an annual "net profit" excluding "special items" but a loss overall. I'm going to be a curmudgeon and say that a loss is a loss.)
Yet American Airlines is still around, and is still considered valuable enough that US Airways is fighting the US Justice department in court to be allowed to merge with American. So I would say that contrary to the assertion above, an established business does get 5 years to turn around its losses.
I don't contend this should make us happy that Amtrak's timeline is so long, just that there's a disconnect between reality and slogans about the invariable wonderfulness of private corporations.
You have taken one example and generalized it. Bad logic.
Food service is an ancillary line. It is not a core competency for Amtrak or the airlines. Comparing food service to the corporation as a whole is not a good match. Bankruptcy has nothing to do with food service on Amtrak.
The beauty of the competitive market place lies in the reality that businesses that continually stuff it up go belly up, and society stops wasting resources on them. It is what Joseph Schumpeter called creative destruction. The business graveyard is full of examples, including Eastern Airlines, Northeastern Airlines, People Air Express, etc. The list goes on and on. On the other hand, once a government agency or activity is locked in to place, getting rid of it is nearly impossible. It continually drains taxpayer dollars.
While I'm unfamiliar with Texas, it looks like the Chili's/Applebee's strategy is even more problematic earlier in the day on the westbound Sunset Limited. El Paso arrival is 1:22pm mountain time, which is a bit late for lunch, considering that the train might be running late, and also considering that the passenger stomachs have recently made the transition from central time, so they're growling like it's 2:22pm. The previous stop is Alpine at 10:38am central, but Google says no Chili's/Applebee's category restaurants there. Prior to that is Sanderson at 8:24am, where Google lists only 2 obscure restaurants, though one of them does have a review recommending it during mule deer season. Prior to that is Del Rio at 5:49am, where we do have both Chili's and Applebee's, but they don't open till 10:45am and 11am respectively.
Maybe lunch has to come from Pizza Hut or Subway in Alpine--or, of course, McDonald's.
Next I was going to explore breakfast, but I'm thinking it requires a different strategy anyway, because it's not served at the class of chain restaurants we're looking at. San Antonio at 2:45am has a 24-hour Denny's, but I'm not sure I would want to confront at 6am the eggs-over-easy portion of a Grand Slam that was cooked at 2:30am. Maybe breakfast has to be a buffet a la Best Western or Fairfield. Let's forget the make-your-own waffle machine, though; the combination of batter, hot iron, and UP roadbed quality isn't a pretty picture.
The appeal of the Chili's/Applebee's strategy is that the price/performance is attractive in the restaurants, so maybe it would be only a little less so on the train. But the odds seem to be against it: in the west, anyway, the rail routes are too remote, and there's a good chance the restaurants won't be willing to change their fine-tuned food-prep operations to facilitate delayed serving, or that the changes will ruin the price/performance.
That leads us back to SkyChef, or Xanterra. While physical plant may account for some of the problems with NPS outsourcing, it doesn't explain why the coffee machines in the convenience store in Yosemite (DNC is the concessionaire) were all out of service, or why there was only one kind of sandwich stocked in the cooler whose shelf tags showed it was meant for a half dozen, or why the veggie meals at the Grand Canyon had run out a year in advance. My belief is that advocates of the free market get confused about what makes it work well (when it does.) The magic isn't in "private" vs "public"; the magic is in "choice" vs "no choice". If I ran the NPS, I would make sure that the hotels and restaurants at the Grand Canyon were split among at least two different concessioners.
If I were asked to outsource Amtrak food service, I would at least make sure the lounge food and the diner food came from different vendors, and that the lounge vendor was encouraged to offer some menu items that could plausibly compete with the simpler diner offerings. Then I'd hope to get bids from somebody who never operated in a national park. :-)
ecoliWhile I'm unfamiliar with Texas, it looks like the Chili's/Applebee's strategy is even more problematic earlier in the day on the westbound Sunset Limited. El Paso arrival is 1:22pm mountain time, which is a bit late for lunch, considering that the train might be running late, and also considering that the passenger stomachs have recently made the transition from central time, so they're growling like it's 2:22pm. The previous stop is Alpine at 10:38am central, but Google says no Chili's/Applebee's category restaurants there. Prior to that is Sanderson at 8:24am, where Google lists only 2 obscure restaurants, though one of them does have a review recommending it during mule deer season. Prior to that is Del Rio at 5:49am, where we do have both Chili's and Applebee's, but they don't open till 10:45am and 11am respectively.
Is the current schedule optimum for today's population and potential ridership? Or, is it still an historical vestige from the 1950s?
Sam1 You have taken one example and generalized it. Bad logic. Food service is an ancillary line. It is not a core competency for Amtrak or the airlines. Comparing food service to the corporation as a whole is not a good match. Bankruptcy has nothing to do with food service on Amtrak.
First you compared Amtrak's food service operation to a pair of corporations whose entire business is food service ("Can you image McDonald's or Chili's saying that it will eliminate the losses on its restaurants in five years?") Now you say "Comparing [Amtrak] food service to the corporation as a whole is not a good match." I think you have it right the second time.
If you like, we can discuss more examples of surviving corporations that have taken more than 5 years to turn around their businesses. Next up: GM. After that, some more airlines. Some corporations are subsidized by the government directly, others by being allowed to stiff their creditors and stockholders in bankruptcy court.
ecoli Sam1 Five years to eliminate the losses on its food and beverage services? Wow! It is a good thing Amtrak does not have to play in a competitive market. Can you image McDonald's or Chili's saying that it will eliminate the losses on its restaurants in five years? A business, especially a so-called established business, does not get that much time to turn around its losses. Sam1 You have taken one example and generalized it. Bad logic. Food service is an ancillary line. It is not a core competency for Amtrak or the airlines. Comparing food service to the corporation as a whole is not a good match. Bankruptcy has nothing to do with food service on Amtrak. First you compared Amtrak's food service operation to a pair of corporations whose entire business is food service ("Can you image McDonald's or Chili's saying that it will eliminate the losses on its restaurants in five years?") Now you say "Comparing [Amtrak] food service to the corporation as a whole is not a good match." I think you have it right the second time. If you like, we can discuss more examples of surviving corporations that have taken more than 5 years to turn around their businesses. Next up: GM. After that, some more airlines. Some corporations are subsidized by the government directly, others by being allowed to stiff their creditors and stockholders in bankruptcy court.
A food service line, which is an ancillary service, and a corporation workout are not comparable. They are not even close.
oltmannd ecoliWhile I'm unfamiliar with Texas, it looks like the Chili's/Applebee's strategy is even more problematic earlier in the day on the westbound Sunset Limited. El Paso arrival is 1:22pm mountain time, which is a bit late for lunch, considering that the train might be running late, and also considering that the passenger stomachs have recently made the transition from central time, so they're growling like it's 2:22pm. The previous stop is Alpine at 10:38am central, but Google says no Chili's/Applebee's category restaurants there. Prior to that is Sanderson at 8:24am, where Google lists only 2 obscure restaurants, though one of them does have a review recommending it during mule deer season. Prior to that is Del Rio at 5:49am, where we do have both Chili's and Applebee's, but they don't open till 10:45am and 11am respectively. Is the current schedule optimum for today's population and potential ridership? Or, is it still an historical vestige from the 1950s?
I just looked it up. It's roughly the same schedule EB, but the WB is flipped. This train serves three purposes, generally. One is the corridor from NOL to San Antonio. The other is Tuscon to LA. The third purpose would be people going between these populated ends.
So, best schedule would be daylight on the ends and overnight between. A couple of problems with this. One is that the tri-weekly schedule means it's pretty useless for day travel at the ends. You just have to happen to have trip timing that fits the train's schedule. Another is that, at current speeds (which are pretty close to 1957 speeds) you have to choose one end or the other - the timing just doesn't work for both. On the eastern end, the route looks good in terms of population centers, but the train's avg speed boarders on "why even bother".
I have to agree, if you are looking for anything - food included, between San Antonio and Tuscon, it's slim pickings. You certainly don't want to optimize the schedule to fit your food service scheme and you'll likely have the same issues, perhaps to a lesser extent, with the other western LD trains. So, you may need different strategies for eastern vs. western LD trains. Perhaps the new route managers will have some freedom in this regard.
oltmannd Is the current schedule optimum for today's population and potential ridership? Or, is it still an historical vestige from the 1950s?
Unfortunately I think we have to go back much earlier than the 1950s to find a time when the Sunset route was optimum. I realize it's less of a handicap for freight, some of which doesn't mind detouring and backing up and wasting time to get where it wants to go, but it's still got to be a negative factor that our rail routes favor the places that made sense in 1910 and reach only awkwardly many places that make sense today. As I thread my way through the semis on I-10 between Tucson and Phoenix, I console myself that the parallel UP tracks are reasonably busy, and it never pays to argue with Warren Buffett when he talks about things like the bright future of railroading.
Thank you, NKP Guy. I've been off line for some time due to technical problems and the demands of my Amtrak work schedule. I'm now trying to catch up by reading through this whole thing, and my reactions have sent me through more emotional ups and downs than I'd experience in a month of Shakespearean dramas. I've noticed that privatization has been cited as a sure-fire solution, even though privatization is what we had before Amtrak was established to replace it. I've heard that "professionals in the food industry" will know more about food service IN THE ONBOARD ENVIRONMENT than will those of us who provide such service every day. I've heard that Amtrak chefs only know how to operate microwave ovens. Tell that to one of our chefs who is busy cleaning his grill at eleven p.m., anticipating a five o'clock wakeup time so that he can be ready to open the diner for breakfast at 6 a.m. I've also read how lazy dining car servers are. Good thing I read it here, because I was too tired to notice when I finished my most recent round trip.
The fact is, the work is about as difficult as the work of any restaurant employee EXCEPT for the fact that you're constantly on your feet, working your muscles against the motion of the train, and EXCEPT for the long hours with minimal layover time and minimal time for sleep enroute at night.
If it weren't for the protection we get from the union, and the higher wages and security that union membership provides, there aren't many of us who would stay.
Now I'll go back to reading this stuff. Some of it is pretty good, but there's a lot of fiction.
Good to hear from one of the soldiers, ACY.
In my recent 5,245-mile Amtrak trip, I ran into one poor dining-car crew. All the others were super stars ... and in personality, besides in the performance of their duties.
Virtue will prevail! Keep up the good work.
Well, I finally got through the whole thing, although I have to admit I skimmed some of it. After all, it's 12 pages of postings now, and seems to be growing. I did think it was curious that it took 11 pages before anybody brought up the Auto train model. For the record, ALL Auto Train passengers get dinner and breakfast as a matter of course. There are no short-hauls. Everybody is going the entire 850+ miles overnight, so they have to eat. The breakfast is nearly the same for coach passengers and sleeper passengers. It's an Amtrak version of a Continental breakfast, with a selection of cold cereals, warmed bagels and corn muffins, juice, fruit, and coffee, tea, or decaf. Considering our 9:30 a.m. scheduled arrival (we are often earlier), and our passenger load of 400 passengers, it's a practical thing. If we gave passengers a cooked, sit-down breakfast, we might get half of the passengers served before arrival. What would we say to the rest?
For dinner, the sleeper diner features the passenger's choice of steak, one seafood entrée, one poultry entrée, one vegetarian entrée, or a children's meal of chicken tenders, followed by dessert. The coach menu is similar, except that the entrees tend to be of a slightly lower grade. For example, sleeper passengers are offered a steak, while coach passengers may be offered short ribs of beef. Salads are provided in the sleeper diner, but not in the coach diner because there is nobody available to prepare them in the coach section. Coach attendants board their cars, then serve as wait staff in the coach diner. Wine is available on a complimentary basis in both coach and sleeper diners, although the quality and selection is commensurate with the fare differential. Other differences, such as vinyl or linen table cloths reflect the higher prices paid by sleeping car passengers.
The Lead Service Attendant (LSA) in each diner has to account for everything, and must report all food used. While there are dollar figures attached to the paperwork, I don't really know how this breaks down because I'm not the LSA. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that economies could be realized just by simplifying the paperwork. This has been discussed for the entire 26+ years that I have worked for Amtrak. Hopefully it will become a reality some day.
As for an Amtrak exception that frees it from local health codes, the fact is that Amtrak, as an Interstate carrier, is not regulated by any State or local health agency. It is regulated directly by the Food & Drug Administration. I have discussed this with a retired State restaurant inspector, and I understand that the standards of the FDA are far more stringent than those of any State agency. This might present legal problems for a restaurant that puts food aboard in Texas, to be consumed in New Mexico.
I think I know ways that our service could be delivered at lower cost, but I'm not in a policy-making position, so it's not for me to say. In any case, I am not writing as a representative of Amtrak, but as a private individual. My opinions are my own and should not be construed to represent Amtrak policy.
I do believe that the idea of eliminating the Union is a major factor in certain politicians' positions on this issue. However, it should be remembered that onboard service personnel do a lot more than the job you see them doing. Our training is heavily focused on safety in the onboard environment, and it involves extensive knowledge of the equipment. In another forum, I recently mentioned a medical emergency that occurred aboard the Auto Train. Without going into detail, I will say that o.b.s. employees were the first responders in that case, and I think the passenger has reason to be grateful that he was not at the mercy of a teenaged burger-flipper at a fast food joint.
Maybe I'm thin skinned about this, but a few posters have implied a disdain for o.b.s. employees, particularly dining car staff. Some have stated it openly. Well, I don't apologize for my job, and I don't apologize for earning a decent wage for it. I'm 67 years old and getting ready to retire, and after all these years I think I deserve to retire with a pension, modest though that pension may be.
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