British Railway Operations

[BR60103]

cogload: have I encountered you on the Railway Modelling Web? With a different name?

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Murphy - Tulyar will explain but yes it does.

In the UK - and indeed Europe generally - trains are bi-directional. We don't reverse trains on a "wye." If a train needs to go in the opposite direction there are two prinicipal options:-

1 - The driver (engineer) simply walks to the cab at the other end of the train and sets off using the controls there. This is almost universal in European, Japanese and Australasian passenger trains and is a methodology adopted in North American Commuter rail. Amtrak use this means of working with their "Cabbages", and on the Talgo trainsets in the Northwest.

2 - Either the loco uses a siding to "run round" it's train or a different loco is put on the opposite end. This method is used primarily on freight trains where the consist is not permanent.

The train pictured went to Barmouth, and is formed of older BR stock which is not cab-car compatible. There are no longer facilities for loco's to run round at Barmouth so a loco at each end was necessary to enable Tulyar to come back home again.

Not a dumb question, just a situation that you'll not experience every day in Sioux Falls! Hope I've answered it.

Simon: Thanks for the explanation. Would both locomotives be operating,perhaps one by remote control? Or, would the lead engine pull train, while the trailing engine idles?

[Simon Reed]

Tulyar, Cogload and Matt:-

It's a long time since I've done a railtour in the UK - 10 years plus - partially due to the stereotypes so lovingly described by Cogload.

I have, however, been to Pwhelli twice on railtours (2 x 25's and 2 x 31's) so I'm not sure that January 2005 was the first time a tour has been there.

I also went on a South Wales tour with lots of 37's one Sunday, which had a long pathing stop at Rhymny, in the afternoon.

The only thing that was open was a small corner shop and within 20 minutes it had virtually sold out of EVERYTHING! There were two old ladies running it and they did'nt know whether to laugh or cry. One guy bought a whole jar of jellybabies from behind the counter, and someone who might possibly answer to the name of Simon Reed bought the whole stock of Chocolate Buttons....

[Simon Reed]

Murphy - Tulyar will explain but yes it does.

In the UK - and indeed Europe generally - trains are bi-directional. We don't reverse trains on a "wye." If a train needs to go in the opposite direction there are two prinicipal options:-

1 - The driver (engineer) simply walks to the cab at the other end of the train and sets off using the controls there. This is almost universal in European, Japanese and Australasian passenger trains and is a methodology adopted in North American Commuter rail. Amtrak use this means of working with their "Cabbages", and on the Talgo trainsets in the Northwest.

2 - Either the loco uses a siding to "run round" it's train or a different loco is put on the opposite end. This method is used primarily on freight trains where the consist is not permanent.

The train pictured went to Barmouth, and is formed of older BR stock which is not cab-car compatible. There are no longer facilities for loco's to run round at Barmouth so a loco at each end was necessary to enable Tulyar to come back home again.

Not a dumb question, just a situation that you'll not experience every day in Sioux Falls! Hope I've answered it.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

Here's a pic of the tour I went on last Saturday, taken just after it emerged from the avalanche shelter near Fairbourne (Barmouth is visible in the distance). If you look carefully you might even be able to spot my head leaning out of the last car. At that precise moment I was filming with my video camera!


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=142769

I guarantee this is a dumb question. Does that train have a locomotive at both ends?
Thanks

[John Bakeer]

Tulyar,
A great pic. indeed. (Got the Cambrian coast route on my train sim. Took the V,irgin Voyager over it last night, I know it's not the real thing but it's the nearest I can get.)
I have been on the site and it seems interesting, covering a world of railroad activities.
Trouble is, like a lot of these sites, access is limited until you go thropugh a complicated registration rigmorole.
John B.

[daveklepper]

Thanks for the terrific photo!

[Tulyar15]

Here's a pic of the tour I went on last Saturday, taken just after it emerged from the avalanche shelter near Fairbourne (Barmouth is visible in the distance). If you look carefully you might even be able to spot my head leaning out of the last car. At that precise moment I was filming with my video camera!


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=142769

[Anonymous]

You can always tell the rare occasions when we have a railtour on the Heart of Wales line. The local supermarket sells out of all ready-made sandwiches and drinks, and the newsagents next to the station sells their entire stock of rail-related magazines within minutes. In terms of income it's like having an entire day's customers through the doors in two hours!

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Bakeer

Murphy,
It is possible under English law to own shares in non-profit making enterprises/charities, there are no dividends and the purchase of (a) share(s) is classed as an open ended loan which is in most cases not redeemable, unles the organisation is purchased by normal for prifits organisation. ie. A building society being bought by a bank. But this whole subject is a maze of rules and regulations, basically when investing in rail preservation you kiss your money goodby, but returns are not what it is about.
John B.

Aye! And Scottish law too! For my sins, I'm a shareholder in the Strathspey Railway and in a couple of their locos. Nearer to home I'm also a shareholder in the Dean Forest Railway.

Cogload may not like railtours but the people of Wales do. When the first railtour ran on the Cambrian Coast line to Pwllheli in January 2005 the shopkeepers etc of the town were sure glad of an influx of 400 people that day! Even the Welsh Weather behaved that day itself, even allowing the sun to come out! On last Saturday too we had beautiful weather. I even met Peter Watts, Managing Director of Pathfinder Tours on the beech at Barmouth!

[John Bakeer]

The more you dig, the bigger the hole! More effort, less substance. Add Inf.
John B.

[Anonymous]

The West Somerset issues shares; 10 pence each. It is basically a donation as 99.9999% of coampanies which issue shares will never pay a dividend and they are not listed anywhere as far as I can see (squints at the Financial Times). If it [the WSR] goes bust I will probabley end up getting 0.01pence or a chair from a sleeper as my contribution! HOWEVER, there is one exception which I think is the Paignton and Dartmouth SR or whatever it is called these days. This does pay a divi, as the company owns other bitsnpieces as well such as cruise ships and the like.

The Railtour company will ask an operator with a licence (usually EWS) to, in effect bid for a slot. The price will be agreed for TA, locomotive and stock hire and the like and then passed on to the punter.

There are regular slots in the tt for pullman trains etc. However charters are usually STP (Short Term Planning) and coded "Z". I do not like them. However I understand why they run.

[Murphy Siding]

John: I understand now. Thanks. Owning stock in a heritage railway would be a nice way of saying "I support this cause with a donation".[:)]

[John Bakeer]

Murphy,
It is possible under English law to own shares in non-profit making enterprises/charities, there are no dividends and the purchase of (a) share(s) is classed as an open ended loan which is in most cases not redeemable, unles the organisation is purchased by normal for prifits organisation. ie. A building society being bought by a bank. But this whole subject is a maze of rules and regulations, basically when investing in rail preservation you kiss your money goodby, but returns are not what it is about.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

cogload: What do you mean by being a shareholder? These aren't for-profit ventures, are they?

If I understand the system right (which I probably don't), The railtour company has to *bid* (?) for the slot on a rail line?

[Anonymous]

re: Beer. I did purchase an extremely expensive pint of Boddingtons in Victoria BC a few years ago on the basis that it was probabley the only drinkable stuff there. Apart from that there was a 4 pack of "American" Budweiser in the firdge which has mostly been demolished. If you want to taste proper Ale then Sharps Doombar can be recommended.

Murphy - enthusiasts specials can be pains to timetable, pains to run and have an unfortunate tendancy to fail. Once in a former life I managed to tie up one of the only 4 through platforms at Edinburgh Waverley for 4 hours by refusing to move a train hehehehehee... VSOE is a lot classier and therefore is excluded from this rant. There have also been times when trouble has broken out ....I am a shareholder in a heritage railway (the West Somerset) where top speed is 25MPH and all is very genteel. I personally dont care what is on the front as long as it gets me home.

However they do bring in a valuable source of revenue so they will be tolerated.

[martin.knoepfel]

As far as beer is cocerned, I recommend a trip to Belgium. And interesting train-action, too.

[malcolmyoung]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Bakeer

Sorry David,
My limited knowledge of the swig market west of the mid atlantic ridge is due to my health and not able to cross the pond, is only based on the experiences of other brits who can swim.
The feed back I get is that almost without exception all US/ Can. beer is completely undrinkable and has to be near frozen in order to paralise the taste buds.
Nevertheless my computer gives me the chance to drive N American trains as well as UK and some European. The management gives me stick for refusing to stop short of a signal (for lunch).
John B.

I have visited the U.S. and can confirm what you heard about American beer, as Monty Python once observed, "It's like having sex in a canoe, f**king close to water". They can even manage to ruin good English ale, I stayed a few days at the Dearborn Inn, near Detroit and was delighted when i went to the bar to see that they sold Bass on draught, so I ordered a pint, The barmaid had no idea what a pint was, so I ordered a glass, she then produced a frozen glass from the fridge and filled it with near frozen ale, I had to ask her to give it 10 seconds in the microwave to try to make it drinkable!
Malc, (real ale drinker).

[Murphy Siding]

Tulyar15 : Thanks for sharing. What can you see at 90 mph? I've ridden on 5 different, little American tourists trains. I doubt if any of them topped 15mph[:(]

Cogload: I do enjoy your posts, You do add a different perspective to things. I would guess that your dislike is caused by extra headaches for railroad operating people?

Thanks

[John Bakeer]

Sorry David,
My limited knowledge of the swig market west of the mid atlantic ridge is due to my health and not able to cross the pond, is only based on the experiences of other brits who can swim.
The feed back I get is that almost without exception all US/ Can. beer is completely undrinkable and has to be near frozen in order to paralise the taste buds.
Nevertheless my computer gives me the chance to drive N American trains as well as UK and some European. The management gives me stick for refusing to stop short of a signal (for lunch).
John B.

[BR60103]

John:
I believe the three you mentioned come from south of the border. However, I'll concede a point that Canadian beer may be the reason I never developed a taste for it.

[Anonymous]

Nedding specials are pains in the backsides IMHO. Sorry. I do not like them, if you wqant to ride behind funny locomotives, go on a heritage railway. There (stereotype and generalization alert) ypou can do Nazi style waves and shout "hellfire" to your hearts content.

However, they do bring the cash in and are a useful earner to the bottom line for some branches.

[Tulyar15]

Murphy - these days a typical day on a railtour usually involves an early start and a long day. The tour I went on yesterday, was due tostart from Taunton Somersety at 5:30 am. I joined it at Cheltenham, where the scheduled time was 7:20. Due to an hour late start it was more like 8:20. Fortunately because it was a tour where we had a couple of hours lay over at the destination we were able to return on time, and our return to Cheltenham was at the scheduled time of 20:40 (8:40pm). Some tours are run to do linrd that arent used by passenger trains. some in order to visit have a particular type of loco for haulage. Some of the longer tours, particularly those going to Scotland may start on a Friday night.

One of the problems scheduling these tours is most of the diesel locos than UK railfans want are limited to 90mph; with all the 125mph trains about these days it harder to schedule these tours.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

Meanwhile, getting back to railways, I'm going on a railtour to Barmouth tomorrow, hauled by two class 33 diesel locos. It's the first time these locos have been allowed to haul a passenger train over the viaduct over the Mawddach estuary ar Barmouth; indeed it'll be only the second time over the Mawwddach viaduct. I gather from MAchynlleth the train will be top'd and tailed; normally the procedure with railtours since the Mawddach viaduct was re-opened to locos last year is only one loco per train.

The trip's organised by Pathfinder Tours so I'll be able to get some 'warm' beer on the train too

Tulyar15: As a favor for us on this side of the Atlantic, whose train-riding ventures are very slim, can you tell us about what a "typical" day on a railtour would be like for you? I know that I, for one, would enjoy hearing about it. Thanks.

[John Bakeer]

Mr Jampton,
You are obviously a southerner where the beer is usually unpalletable, due to the inability of landlords and customers to tell the difference between beer and the nats-pee lager you all buy because an advert featuring a pnuematic blonde says it is good!!!!
Murphy,
Don't listen to the unenlightened, Frederick Robinson here in Stockport brews rhe finest and it has slaked the thirst of enginmen at Edgeley shed 9B for many years (in steam days). It's thanks to CAMRA that we can now drink real ale instead of the American style root beers they tried to fob us off with in the 60's. Watneys, Whitbread, Ind Coop etc, all based around London.
As for a person from outside the Uk knowing anything about beer?(BR60103) The mind boggles, Miller, Budweiser, Coors, Yukkk!!!
John B.

[Tulyar15]

Meanwhile, getting back to railways, I'm going on a railtour to Barmouth tomorrow, hauled by two class 33 diesel locos. It's the first time these locos have been allowed to haul a passenger train over the viaduct over the Mawddach estuary ar Barmouth; indeed it'll be only the second time over the Mawwddach viaduct. I gather from MAchynlleth the train will be top'd and tailed; normally the procedure with railtours since the Mawddach viaduct was re-opened to locos last year is only one loco per train.

The trip's organised by Pathfinder Tours so I'll be able to get some 'warm' beer on the train too

[Murphy Siding]

You had me interested, untill you said warm, flat beer.[xx(] Now, cold,dark beer, that's another subject.... Most railroad images that appear in advertizing images that I see, have to do with banking and mortgages. Mortgage express is one. I work 2 blocks down the street from "8th & Raiload Center". Both use caricatures of 1950's streamliner locomotives.[xx(]

[Hugh Jampton]

CAMpaign for Real Ale..
An organisation for people who love the warm flat beer they sell in this country.

http://www.camra.org.uk/ is their website.

[BR60103]

CAMRA is a bunch of guys that think one beer tastes different from another, and it tastes better if it's stirred by shepherds in bare feet.

[Murphy Siding]

What is CAMRA?