British Railway Operations

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

If it's on the control desk it's the thrash handle - or to put it more prosaically the power controller.

If it's elsewhere it's the handbrake although our ALCo S1 has a handbrake control that would'nt be out of place as the ship's wheel on a Mississippee tug.

During the '80's in Britain there was a TV gameshow with the catchphrase "Spin that wheel" which was misappropriated en masse by British lovers of Iri***raction at the time and regularly shouted at the engineers on "A" class loco's...we've already discussed the British phenomenon of "Bashing" on these pages which may explain this peculiar behaviour....

[(-D][(-D] Sometimes, I have to laugh at this English language we share. In my part of the world, bashing means heavy-duty insulting. To thrash, means roughly,to ride your skateboard on someone's private propert with careless disregard.

[Simon Reed]

If it's on the control desk it's the thrash handle - or to put it more prosaically the power controller.

If it's elsewhere it's the handbrake although our ALCo S1 has a handbrake control that would'nt be out of place as the ship's wheel on a Mississippee tug.

During the '80's in Britain there was a TV gameshow with the catchphrase "Spin that wheel" which was misappropriated en masse by British lovers of Iri***raction at the time and regularly shouted at the engineers on "A" class loco's...we've already discussed the British phenomenon of "Bashing" on these pages which may explain this peculiar behaviour....

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

This may be the dumb question of the week:
What is the purpose of the "steering wheel" I see in the cab shots of European railroads?

Maybe they haven't invented the flange yet![:D]

I was wondering who the smarty-pants would be that gave an answer like that! [:D]
They have the flange; it's just on the outside of the wheel.[;)]

Railroading Brit,
I thought it might be a throttle-type thingy. In the videos I've seen, the driver is usually seen making minute adjustments to the 'wheel', and I could not see anything that resembled a control stand. My other guess is that is was a sort of dead-man device.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

This may be the dumb question of the week:
What is the purpose of the "steering wheel" I see in the cab shots of European railroads?

Maybe they haven't invented the flange yet![:D]

[Anonymous]

It's usually the power controller, at least, a lot of mainland European locos have that arrangement. I think on some of them it may also operate the dynamic brakes if you turn it to zero and then turn a little more, this is based on the old DR "Ludmilla" add-on for MS Train Sim though so it's quite possibly wrong!

[zardoz]

This may be the dumb question of the week:
What is the purpose of the "steering wheel" I see in the cab shots of European railroads?

[Anonymous]

I've not been keeping up with these pages lately but was reading about one man opperation a few pages ago. a few nights ago i went to a lecture on Japanese railways. It mainly delt with the Shin-Kansen network, but touched on the railways 3'6 gauge network and mentioned that many branch lines are one man operation with the driver selling tickets. This would be a usefull cost reduceing measure that could be applied to the Far North Line and the West Highland Line. And id does show it can work on major railways.

[John Bakeer]

Hugh,
Being of advancing years myself, the thought of Jarvis getting hold of my bones fills me with trepidation.
John B.
Lurking in Stockport Greater Manchester.the home of the real LERT.

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

It seems to have been a worldwide thing during steam days that many drivers (engineers) considered themselves to be an elite who would have as little as possible to do with firemen (stokers) both on and off the job.

I have a book by a Southern (UK) driver who rose through the ranks and recalls instances where the only conversation he had during out-and-back turns as a fireman took the form of grunts!

Didn't most engineers during steam days work their way up.....from being firemen? You would think that a fireman who wasn't being treated well could make an engineer look bad?

Yes they did work their way up.
It's also possible for a driver to make the fireman look bad, but in the event of a problem both were hauled up on the rug.

Well, yes. May I chime in here. I'm at least of British heritage. Last name is Strawbridge. I keep wondering if I'm related to your foriegn secretary - or whatever his official title is. You know, that guy named "Straw" that keeps running around the world with Congi Rice. Do you think there's something "going on" between those two?

Anyway, I had an uncle who was absolutely fascinated with steam power. He wasn't a railroader, he was a farmer. But he grew up working on, and running, steam traction engines that were used to power farm equipment.

He told me a story about a friend of his who was a fireman (stoker) on the C&NW. (which ran left handed, to further the Briti***ie in.) So his friend was working with a driver (engineer) who was one mean S.O.B. The engineer (driver) would deliberatly try to set farmers' fields on fire by "cracking" the throttle (regulator?) in an effort to get embers out the stack and into the dry fields. Of course, he just wrecked the carefully laid and tended fire by doing this.

So aparently my uncle's friend grew weary of rebuilding his fire. He grabbed a pick ax out of the tender (I don't know - coal van?) and told the driver (engineer) "You S.O.B., if you do that one more time, I'll put this through you." and then the friend added: "And I would have too, I don't know what 'they'd' have done to me, but I would have."

The trip was uneventful after that point. And the fire undisturbed.

[Hugh Jampton]

And they administerate old folks homes as well or some such.

The whole thing was hideaously complicated. Netwrok Rail 'own' the tracks, but they employed contractors to do the maintenance, of which Jarvis was one. Although there's a distinct difference between maintenance and renewals (which Jarvis is good at). Due to the poor performance of many of these Infrastructure Maintenence Companys (IMCs) NR has taken all of the maintenance back in house. They were getiin ripped off seriously before this.

[John Bakeer]

Welcome to the fold Murphy. I share your confusion about Jarvis, they also build schools!
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

Can you explain the difference between an infrastucture controller, and a maintenance company? Does Jarvis do maintenance contract work for an infrastructure co.? If it sounds like I'm confused, I am. Thanks

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15


Meanwhile Futuremodal will no doubt be delighted to hear that yet another OA operator has now got the go-ahead to haul coal down from Scotland. The infrastructure co Jarvis have now got an operating licence to run trains and will be running coal trains as well as maintenance trains.

Does this mean Jarvis is both an infrastructure co, and a train operating co, on the same line? I thought they were supposed to be seperated?

That was how it was supposed to be , although EWS and the other OA companies make a lot of money from infrastructure contracts. I suppose we're progressing back towards a vertically integrated set up. Stagecoach the bus company owns Porterbrook, the Rolling Stock co. To be fair Porterbrook is the only ROSCO that has taken speculative risks by order trains before it has found a user for them. The other two ROSCO's are owned by the banks and just act like profit maximizing monopolists (but in the longer term they will face competition from manufacturers leasing stock to train operators).

I agree with John B's comments about the foreign coal. On the Avon Valley Railway (which I am a volunteer worker on) we had a duff batch a couple of weeks ago. Ironically it blocked the tubes of our Polish "Ferrum" 0-6-0T.

John B - you are quite correct about "Tulyar" - it was (is!) the name of my favourite "Deltic" diesel loco.

I have no problem with a certain amount of vertical operations within the open access structure. The whole point of open access is to make sure willing transporters are not barred from using the ROW. If the infrastructure owner also wants to run trains to take advantage of a transporting opportunity, so be it. Could result in a conflict though if another transporter wants a piece of that action.

The only problem is that Jarvis are not an infrastructure controller.. They are a maintenance company (and a p**s poor one and all) so there's no conflict of intrest if they want to operate trains. They were always a sort of train operating company anyway if you caount their on track machinery, such as tampers and the like.

[mhurley87f]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Bakeer

Hi Murphy,
There were only twenty-odd Deltics Built and as far as I can work out they were named and re-named on a whim from above (Marilibone) as were some of the A4's.
John B.

IIRC 22 were bought, the names depended on the BR Region where they were nominally based. Eastern Region's were named after some post WW2 Classic Flat Race Winners (Derby, Oaks, etc) , whereas Both Scottish Region's and North Eastern Region's were named after the famous Regiments whose recruitment areas were Scotland and NE England.

Martin

[John Bakeer]

Hi Murphy,
There were only twenty-odd Deltics Built and as far as I can work out they were named and re-named on a whim from above (Marilibone) as were some of the A4's.
John B.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15


Meanwhile Futuremodal will no doubt be delighted to hear that yet another OA operator has now got the go-ahead to haul coal down from Scotland. The infrastructure co Jarvis have now got an operating licence to run trains and will be running coal trains as well as maintenance trains.

Does this mean Jarvis is both an infrastructure co, and a train operating co, on the same line? I thought they were supposed to be seperated?

That was how it was supposed to be , although EWS and the other OA companies make a lot of money from infrastructure contracts. I suppose we're progressing back towards a vertically integrated set up. Stagecoach the bus company owns Porterbrook, the Rolling Stock co. To be fair Porterbrook is the only ROSCO that has taken speculative risks by order trains before it has found a user for them. The other two ROSCO's are owned by the banks and just act like profit maximizing monopolists (but in the longer term they will face competition from manufacturers leasing stock to train operators).

I agree with John B's comments about the foreign coal. On the Avon Valley Railway (which I am a volunteer worker on) we had a duff batch a couple of weeks ago. Ironically it blocked the tubes of our Polish "Ferrum" 0-6-0T.

John B - you are quite correct about "Tulyar" - it was (is!) the name of my favourite "Deltic" diesel loco.

I have no problem with a certain amount of vertical operations within the open access structure. The whole point of open access is to make sure willing transporters are not barred from using the ROW. If the infrastructure owner also wants to run trains to take advantage of a transporting opportunity, so be it. Could result in a conflict though if another transporter wants a piece of that action.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

John B - you are quite correct about "Tulyar" - it was (is!) the name of my favourite "Deltic" diesel loco.

I notice that a lot of "classes" of British locomotives have sort of a *theme*. You've got your "Battle of Britain" class, I believe, and you "Castle "class. Is there a group of deltics named after horses???[:0] Any named after american horses?(Like Mr. Ed/[:o)]))
John B- Murphy Siding was just that- a siding on the Milwaukee Road, near Rapid City, South Dakota.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

It seems to have been a worldwide thing during steam days that many drivers (engineers) considered themselves to be an elite who would have as little as possible to do with firemen (stokers) both on and off the job.

I have a book by a Southern (UK) driver who rose through the ranks and recalls instances where the only conversation he had during out-and-back turns as a fireman took the form of grunts!

Didn't most engineers during steam days work their way up.....from being firemen? You would think that a fireman who wasn't being treated well could make an engineer look bad?

Yes they did work their way up.
It's also possible for a driver to make the fireman look bad, but in the event of a problem both were hauled up on the rug.

[John Bakeer]

Hi Tulyar,
Just loaded No 55015 onto my Train Sim. and I am going to give it a run on the ECML from Peterborough to Welling.
John B.

[John Bakeer]

Hi Murphy, Simon,
This gets worse! I've just found an HO model by Mantua of a Philidelphia camel back 4-6-0 froim the 1890's. How did they manage to communicate?
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

It seems to have been a worldwide thing during steam days that many drivers (engineers) considered themselves to be an elite who would have as little as possible to do with firemen (stokers) both on and off the job.

I have a book by a Southern (UK) driver who rose through the ranks and recalls instances where the only conversation he had during out-and-back turns as a fireman took the form of grunts!

Didn't most engineers during steam days work their way up.....from being firemen? You would think that a fireman who wasn't being treated well could make an engineer look bad?

[Simon Reed]

It seems to have been a worldwide thing during steam days that many drivers (engineers) considered themselves to be an elite who would have as little as possible to do with firemen (stokers) both on and off the job.

I have a book by a Southern (UK) driver who rose through the ranks and recalls instances where the only conversation he had during out-and-back turns as a fireman took the form of grunts!

[John Bakeer]

Re. Leader communications,
I recently reaad a book by a retired locomotive engineer (driver, my father was a member of the institute of locomotive engineers-he designed them!) where he refered to many instances of crews not being on speaking terms and working many trips without uttering a word, but they were in the same cab where a gesture would suffice.
John B.

[John Bakeer]

Isambard,
Re. Buggatti nose.
Buggatti built an experimental high speed railcar for the FS (Italian Federal Railways).
I saw an item on TV a couple of nights ago about Buggatti showing it in a museum somewhere.
Whether it was coincidence, or one copying the other? I do not know.
Perhaps enlightenment is out there?
John B.

[John Bakeer]

Hi Tulyar,
That's true, The Deltic was named after the Dobbin.
John B.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15


Meanwhile Futuremodal will no doubt be delighted to hear that yet another OA operator has now got the go-ahead to haul coal down from Scotland. The infrastructure co Jarvis have now got an operating licence to run trains and will be running coal trains as well as maintenance trains.

Does this mean Jarvis is both an infrastructure co, and a train operating co, on the same line? I thought they were supposed to be seperated?

That was how it was supposed to be , although EWS and the other OA companies make a lot of money from infrastructure contracts. I suppose we're progressing back towards a vertically integrated set up. Stagecoach the bus company owns Porterbrook, the Rolling Stock co. To be fair Porterbrook is the only ROSCO that has taken speculative risks by order trains before it has found a user for them. The other two ROSCO's are owned by the banks and just act like profit maximizing monopolists (but in the longer term they will face competition from manufacturers leasing stock to train operators).

I agree with John B's comments about the foreign coal. On the Avon Valley Railway (which I am a volunteer worker on) we had a duff batch a couple of weeks ago. Ironically it blocked the tubes of our Polish "Ferrum" 0-6-0T.

John B - you are quite correct about "Tulyar" - it was (is!) the name of my favourite "Deltic" diesel loco.

[John Bakeer]

Tulyar was a race horse, it's also part of an underfeed stoker.
Just wondered where some of you guys get your handles.
John B

[John Bakeer]

I lived in the south of Yorkshire through the 80's & Early 90's and witnessed the wholesale destruction of a modern, viable coal industry, just to satisfy blind political dogma. I can tell you the imported stuff is rubbish, it cakes, forms bridges in the bunkers and burns unevenly; therefore driving frustrated users into the oil/gas camp which proceeds to rip them off with high prices & unreliable supply. I could go on, but how do you give a dinosaur a headache? Kick it in the butt, because that's where its brain is.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15


Meanwhile Futuremodal will no doubt be delighted to hear that yet another OA operator has now got the go-ahead to haul coal down from Scotland. The infrastructure co Jarvis have now got an operating licence to run trains and will be running coal trains as well as maintenance trains.

Does this mean Jarvis is both an infrastructure co, and a train operating co, on the same line? I thought they were supposed to be seperated?

[mhurley87f]

Tulyar,

Thanks for the reply - it was indeed 6024, and she (or should it be he??) certainly looked good on the day.

The down run lost some time and, because priority hade to be given to service trains over the singled section between Cockett West and Dyffryn Crossing, she was about 45 to 50 minutes late passing Llandeilo Junction, Llanelli, and by then I was soaked to the skin.

To appease her indoors, and in a shameless attempt to regain Brownie Points, I offered to get the shopping that afternoon from our local Tesco Extra, totally forgetting that the Car Park that purports to serve that out of town shopping area is the nearest thing to the Bermuda Triangle - you can get in, but you never come out again.

It took me an hour and a quarter to get out of the car park (i.e. about 200 yards distance) and missed the return run by about 5 minutes !!!

Martin