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2008 [PART 2] and the Coffee Pot is still on and now 4 years old. Here we gather as friends with trains. Sweet ice tea too.

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Posted by dwiemer on Friday, December 5, 2008 2:27 PM

Chief, As Sen Shelby from Alabama has said, "gee, our auto industry seems to be doing well".  Ours here in Georgia is doing well too.  I don't want to get in a P***ing match with anyone, but where do we stop....The NYTimes, LA Times are suffering too.  Their one sided reporting and management have them hemorraging readership and the profits have plummeted.  Should they be bailed out too?  What about the little mom and pop stores that are suffering?

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Posted by dbaker48 on Friday, December 5, 2008 3:26 PM

 Hey,  I got a train car from MD today, I think it is definetly a collector item.  Here it is FROM Maryland, in a MTH box, and lo and behold a Lionel box and car inside.  Imagine that!!!

 

Not wanting to start a range war either,  but I've watched a little of the begging going on in DC., and it is just another "show", there is NO doubt the bailout will happen, its now just trying to develop the window dressing to make it look politically correct.

Really if this was true, wouldn't a question like, What are the primary factors causing you to be where you are?  And what is going to happen to illiminate THOSE problems.?

- Excessive gov't regulation ?

- Excessive overhead, in terms of BURDENED Labor costs

- Aggressive Competition

- Non responsive mgmt to current market conditions

The old parkinsen law would probably apply, 80% of the problem due to 20% of the cause

Don

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Posted by jonadel on Friday, December 5, 2008 3:43 PM

Don--box just arrived, cowardly FedX driver left it down at the mailbox, guess he didn't like the little bit of  ice on the driveway Tongue   My wife has it in the back of the 4 Runner and it's headed north, I'll catch up if DirecTV EVER shows up for the install Angry

I have lots of thoughts about the bail outs but I have resolved to keep 'em to myself as I value friendships too much.  Besides that, our little princess only wants Grandpa to read to her and not espouse political opinions Smile and I'm good with that!

 And one more thing--our state newspaper (which used to be locally owned but now owned by Gannett) is really hurting--"what goes around comes around", it certainly does not represent the views of the general populace and now my former favorite radio station has gone the other way, talk about polar opposites.  In a perfect world the radio, TV and newspapers would only report the news, I could care less about their opinions.
 

Jon

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Posted by A&Y Ry on Friday, December 5, 2008 4:27 PM

The "Asian Economic Tigers" born in the '60s have whupped us in making Shoes, Textiles, Apparel,Foundry Castings[look at yankee and rebel manhole covers], Machine Tools,Consumer Electronics,Autos and------guess what, Model Trains! If you work at a port, or on a cross country train and so forth, importing, your job is more secure. If you are an Infantry grunt in Iraq, Korea, Germany, Japan, etc, your job if not your life is much more secure. More problematic in Afgahanstan  where job security may become too "permanent".

We pay to defend the world and and finance new industry thru AID [U.S.Agency For International Development] in "developing" countries--see Sri lanka, Pakistan, Thailand,sub-Sahara Africa, Mexico, Central and South American Countries, now Vietnam and many years back [began in'51] Korea, Japan, Hong Kong,Taiwan [the 4 original "Tigers"]and ---low cost financing of Ag products for China. Its all in the Congressional Record and National Budgets for one to add up over 45 years and then compare with its creation via "Free Trade"--- the massive U.S. Trade Deficit. Ronald Reagan said, "we will produce our way out of the deficits--trade and fiscal". Well he was right when we produced!. But today we have no strong manufacturing to supplement the Service Industries and sick Financial complex that were supposed to replace manufacturing as a generator of our economic salvation.

Not a rant, just a sad commentary!  I am selling my mountain house to bail myself out--already dismantled the layout. My grandchildren will someday grow to hate my generation and the boomers and gen "X" folks who trashed their standard of living.

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Posted by dbaker48 on Friday, December 5, 2008 4:40 PM

 Sounds right to me !

Don

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Posted by Ole Timer on Friday, December 5, 2008 4:57 PM

Totally agree with Chief ... the auto industry knew YEARS ago this was coming ... they have  tens of thousands of autos and trucks sitting now no one wants . They're pumping out more everyday ! The typical hourly wage is $ 45.00 - $ 65.00 an hour for line employees not counting overblown retirement and other benefits ... those jokers need to face reality if they think the common taxpayer and millions of them barely making or slightly above minimum wage should pay their wages ! Current production of these dinosaurs must stop immediatly and wage negotiations done NOW ! My nephew works for GM and I told him just that ... he stated to me they will not work for less than $60.00 an hour and will never take a rate decline . Like I told him "guess what pal ... we're not going to pay it ... and somebody else will do it for for less . He scoffed when I said $40.00 an hour was more than enough .... the arrogant little chump . It's not the credit crunch ... it's inferior - gas guzzling junk no one will buy . Those phoney scare tactics won't work ... they need to do like Chrysler did years ago ... but they refuse . And if you disagree tell me where the billions will come from next year for them ... they'll waste and blow this money as they have so far .  Thumbs Down  I'm a UAW member and say this !

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Posted by Ole Timer on Friday, December 5, 2008 5:09 PM

On the lighter side ... which is why I came here until reading bailout posts ... every single item I received from that ebay deal was pristine/mint ! The lady threw in 3 infrared controllers as a bonus ! I thought they were brand new - never used top of the line Lionel mostly and MTH's diecast high end signals when I opened the box  .  I now know how I felt when I was 10 years old again on Xmas morning ... LOL  ... WOW !!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by Blueberryhill RR on Friday, December 5, 2008 5:41 PM

ChiefEagles

kpolak

RockIsland52
  If this auto industry loan guarantee is denied, the amount of the requested guarantee will seem like a grain of sand in the desert compared to the devastating and immediate negative tax revenue impact, both Federal and State, that the loss of these manufacturing jobs will create. 

Chief:  You better get involved in this one...If they go under, they'll close Michigan.  Almost all business here is related to the Auto companies.  I'll be moving to Rosiville!  (pronounced rosee-villee)

All kidding aside, if you work for the big 3, you can't get money from a bank...They simply won't give you credit.  If you don't have cash to make payroll, you're done.  Look for more related businesses to go under soon.

Doug:  The afternoon freight stopped by....Looks like the MOW is going to be up to something on the Christmas Line.

Don:  I've been watching the jobless claims...Previous week was at 475,000...That means jobless claims doubled in one month.

Kurt

You might not like my answer.  Poor upper management [over blown salaries and "big shotiness"] and the UAW are the cause of the US Auto Manufacturers problems.  The foreign manufacturers have loses in sales but still keep going.  Unions are good but that one pushed it too far.  As far as you moving to Roseyville.  Can't get any worse. We have folks here from OHIZO. Disapprove 

Check your information source, Chief....Japan has bailed out Toyota and Honda has dropped out of racing. Germany has also bailed out some car companies. GM will drop out of Nascar.

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, December 5, 2008 5:49 PM

Well the pain in my back the doc ran the normal lab test and nothing showed up so he says I might have a strain muscle in there and when I sit or stand a certain way it aggravates it so he gave me some anti-inflammatory pills. glad it wasn't stones againSmile

Not much happening here tonight watching some ebay sales going off hope I get some more bids lol ( don't we all when we are selling )

Well think this cold is starting to leave still feel congested in the chest some but not as bad as it has been.

I agree with old timer as I heard years ago that the retirement that the 3 auto makers agreed to is why the cost of a car is what it is today, and the salary is 3 times what it should be. Now with that said thou if they brought wages down to say $20.00 to $30.00 an hour and all and say the cost of a car got cut just by 1/3 the value of used cars would drop about 50% so for this to happen we all must understand what the final out come could be. Not that we really have any choice . And old Timer you might mention to your son he has 2 ways of looking at this take $35.00 an hour or join the unemployment line. Most of america is tired of this one and that one needing a hand out to keep going lets get back to basics. I fight to make ends meet But I'm looking to do what I must to get thru this. I don't have the answer but some how this has to work out.

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Posted by ChiefEagles on Friday, December 5, 2008 5:55 PM

dwiemer

Chief, As Sen Shelby from Alabama has said, "gee, our auto industry seems to be doing well".  Ours here in Georgia is doing well too.  I don't want to get in a P***ing match with anyone, but where do we stop....The NYTimes, LA Times are suffering too.  Their one sided reporting and management have them hemorraging readership and the profits have plummeted.  Should they be bailed out too?  What about the little mom and pop stores that are suffering?

Dennis

Right Dennis.  I've bought a Lake House.  Used equity on the Rolesville house.  Now I don't want to make the payments.  Hey Congress, send me a "bail out" check.  Whistling  Lets get the real K-Line back and running.  Hey Congress, send Kline a bail out check.  Seems like the Government owned, ran and paid for everything in a place named the Soviet Union. 

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Posted by A&Y Ry on Friday, December 5, 2008 5:57 PM

Macarthur was the original bailout guru for Toyota when as "King of Japan"  he insisted on Toyota having the contract for runing gear under the FWD Weapons Carriers that populated the penninsula during the Korean War. Dodge raised hell to no avail!

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Posted by Blueberryhill RR on Friday, December 5, 2008 6:43 PM

Ole Timer

Totally agree with Chief ... the auto industry knew YEARS ago this was coming ... they have  tens of thousands of autos and trucks sitting now no one wants . They're pumping out more everyday ! The typical hourly wage is $ 45.00 - $ 65.00 an hour for line employees not counting overblown retirement and other benefits ... those jokers need to face reality if they think the common taxpayer and millions of them barely making or slightly above minimum wage should pay their wages ! Current production of these dinosaurs must stop immediatly and wage negotiations done NOW ! My nephew works for GM and I told him just that ... he stated to me they will not work for less than $60.00 an hour and will never take a rate decline . Like I told him "guess what pal ... we're not going to pay it ... and somebody else will do it for for less . He scoffed when I said $40.00 an hour was more than enough .... the arrogant little chump . It's not the credit crunch ... it's inferior - gas guzzling junk no one will buy . Those phoney scare tactics won't work ... they need to do like Chrysler did years ago ... but they refuse . And if you disagree tell me where the billions will come from next year for them ... they'll waste and blow this money as they have so far .  Thumbs Down  I'm a UAW member and say this !

10 years ago...The 45 hourly employees working for me at Chevy were making $24.00 an hour. Plus overtime and benefits. This means that they have gotten a big raise since then. I don't believe it.

Chuck

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Posted by dbaker48 on Friday, December 5, 2008 7:11 PM

Been thinking about Christmas gifts,

Anyone know where I can buy an  Air Guitar??

Don

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Posted by dougdagrump on Friday, December 5, 2008 9:00 PM

dbaker48

Been thinking about Christmas gifts,

Anyone know where I can buy an  Air Guitar??

Don, I got one that was autographed by Elvis before he left the building. It's available for the right price. Whistling

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Posted by sir james I on Friday, December 5, 2008 9:16 PM

Yea and senator Shelby from Alabama didn't mention that the four foriegn auto companys in his state were given millions of dollars in free land, buildings, and tax breaks either. plus they are all being subsidized by their goverments in their home countries. And I don't know one assembly line person that makes $50.00 an hour plus benifits. More like 1/2 of that at best. If you think the price of gas gave this country a down skid wait and see whats left if the auto companys fail.

Its cold here 18 degrees, but no snow. Talked to brutus this morning and he was going away till sunday so I guess I get the banilla tonite...S.J.

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Posted by cnw1995 on Friday, December 5, 2008 9:53 PM

 Brutus left me the keys, S. J. I've got the Tardis on the way at low altitude looking for beacons. Yeeeeeeeeee Ha!

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Posted by dwiemer on Friday, December 5, 2008 9:56 PM

I think there are a number of valid points on many different views expressed here.  One thing I have trouble with regarding the government involvement in private enterprise.  Beyond the military, I can't think of anything the government does better than private corporations do.  I think of the banking industry..., they place all these regulations on banks to loan money to those who can't afford it, then form organizations to "buy" these loans while political types get wealthy.  And when it comes to a head, the tax payers are forced to pay up.  Like Ronald Reagan said, " the scariest words a person can here: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help".  It sounds funny, but is worrisom. 

On a much lighter note, we had pre-bought a "Prince Caspian" DVD at a local Christian store.  Kids stayed in the other room to watch a few kid type shows and the bride and I watched PC.  Neat flick, but I liked the first one better.  CS Lewis was very profound in his writings.

I came home to find a package at the front door....(Jon, no ice here, it's 60 degrees out).  Anyway, it was a "Lackawanna" box car from K-Line.  One of the die cast trucks was broken.  I will try to find a replacement.  Also won a auction on ChooChoo.  I got a Lionel Christmas sounds box car.  Just another thing to run around the tree.

Well, I hope that everyone has a great weekend.  We have a Christmas Parade in our town in the morning.  Then I have that party for the heart team.  We have a new vascular surgeon starting with the group.  He and his wife are to be in town visiting, so they may come by too.

God Bless,

Dennis

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Posted by dougdagrump on Friday, December 5, 2008 10:02 PM

Evenin' All,

Tonite is the kick off of "Christmas On The Prado", at least that is what it used to be called pre-PC times, in Balboa Park. I used to enjoy it but I haven't signed-up for some time now, parking for the museum has turned into a nightmare. Besides, all the big budget guys like to run their stuff on special events days. The museums will be open much later than normal and free admission, so it will be elbow to elbow all nite.

Spent the day playing with the munchkin, we were supposed to work on the outside lights and make cookies for his mother's classroom but spent most the day playing with trains. Started the day with grampa's 3rail, then the Brio stuff and finished off the day with the battery powered Thomas and ALL his friends. Dead I swear, where do they get all that energy....... 

Brrrr, it's cold here. No snow and 60*. Clown  Laugh

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Posted by dwiemer on Friday, December 5, 2008 10:12 PM

Sir James, down here, the average critical care nurse makes between $15 to $19 per hour.  This is a person who has gone to school, albeit with varying levels (AS, BSN, MSN, etc).  They often work 12 hour shifts, which really work out to 14 hour shifts as they have to give report, etc., which tends to keep them over.  And, for many, they are the primary money earner in the family.  When a hospital fails, they lose everything.  No job, income, retirement, nothing.  As for the incentives the foreign companies that have built factories here, have not the big three received grants and aid from the government for quite some time?   As I mentioned earlier, I think there are valid points on both sides of the issue, but I also think both sides have problems.  We will all suffer from the demise of the economy, I hate to see anyone lose their jobs, but I just don't think Government is  the solution.

We may see it from different sides, but please, don't take my opinions as an insult.  I think we are all friends here and this is the same type conversation I'd have with you across the kitchen table over a cup of joe.  I also think that when reasonable people openly discuss such weighted subjects, in better shapes our own opinions and at some levels, solutions to problems.

Dennis

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Posted by ChiefEagles on Friday, December 5, 2008 10:15 PM

I know how to handle this.  Lets make the OIL COMPANIES bail out the auto industry.  Their high prices caused the whole problem.  They've got the money to do it.  When the Tobacco Program was bought out, Congress made the Tobacco Companies pay into a trust fund.  Now we get a check each Jan for 10 years.  Only problem with tobacco farmers is we only got 1/3 of what our allotment was worth.   To compound on that, IRS is making us pay Capital Gains taxes on it and income tax on the interest we are not getting.   Yes, we were told we got $7 per pound.  Now they say that included interest over 10 years.  Oil Companies have caused the whole mess.  Lets make them pay.  No one wants to see anyone loose their jobs.  If they do loose their jobs, the taxpayers and government will have to support them.

Change subject.  Good night.  Sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite.

 

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Posted by jefelectric on Friday, December 5, 2008 10:28 PM

 Good evening,

It was a beautiful day here today, clear and cold, but then it's almost Winter.  No political comments from me, after 70 years I have concluded that I really don't have any answers.

Jean and I spent the day shopping and didn't get any train time in today.

Have a great weekend.

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Posted by cnw1995 on Friday, December 5, 2008 10:48 PM

Dennis, thought of you the other day - there's a nice live adaption of Lewis' Screwtape Letters playing in Chicago.

This is a weekend of theatre for us - a special treat - saw a nice clean improv group as part of a church volunteer celebration tonight. Going to see an O gauge club I've never heard of run a spectacular modular layout at our local library tomorrow, and a holiday open house at the oldest home in town (1839), finally A Christmas Carol with the family at the Woodstock Opera House Sun. night. That's the building Bill Murray jumped off in Groundhog Day . . .

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Posted by dbaker48 on Saturday, December 6, 2008 12:48 AM

 I'm sure noone would think that I would have any opinion on this subject, but here's a solution;

- Gov't adminstered Bankruptcy for the Big 3, that way all contracts can be negated.

- Then rehire all the workers at established national rates as dictated by the Dept of Labor.  (Which will begin an aggressive program to ensure that all other industries comply)

- Since the UAW will not be influential, simply make that a dept within the Dept of Labor, to assist OSHA in ensuring worker safety. 

- Have all medical plans transferred to and administered by the new National Health Plan Agency, that will go into affect in 2009/10.

- All medical practicioners that are currently in place, offer them a consulting and advisory role, In a new branch of the FDA, which will now report to the Surgeon General.  (advisory roles only, not allowed to administer directly)

- All new medical personnel will be trained by new dept within the Homeland Security Department, specifically reporting to Customs and Immigration.  And will be the front line medical support function.  (This may have a secondary benefit of population reduction as well)

- All retirement programs will be administered by Social Securty Admin., when the accumulated individual account has been depleted, then WalMart will provide employment opportunities for those individuals.  (All retail outlets will be merged into MegaCenters, under the management of Walmart. 

- Acquire EBay into the Treasury dept., and then we can backup all Visa and MC accounts with PayPall, and if that becomes overextended we can easily resort to a Barter system.  With this system we will not have a need for other financial institutions.  Anyway, the NYSE has just been to fickle to deal with, and the others are just a bunch of followers, so they don't matter.

- Other changes that may be necessary;

Repeal all gun laws, they are just to hard to enforce.

Sell Hawaii, and Alaska,

Alaska is too close to Russia, and its too cold anyway.  (Kevin has to move)

Hawaii, is just too far away and noone will be able afford to go there, so we don't need it.

Forget about the left coast, there are too many liberals out here, nothing will help, and in time it will just fall away or burn up anyway.  Just put a fence up along the west side of the Mississippi, and leave it at that.  Texas will have Bush, so no effort required there.  And the rest of the area is either Corn Fields, Dust Bowl, or Bovine Farms, .

May want to move Congress and the Administration to Ellis Island, and then let them begin a Zero Based Budget  Planning Process.

Oh, regarding housing, if you have one keep it.  If you want one build it.  

And finally, and probably most significant appoint Chief as the Southern Magistrate, and Buckeye as Northern Magistrate.  Both of whom has primary activity of keeping the other guy preoccupied on non-essential issues.  (Short term according to the news, Buckeye better head down to NC immediately it seems there is bridge building trouble.)

I think that should take care of just about everything.

 

Don

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Posted by John Bakeer on Saturday, December 6, 2008 4:28 AM

Just realised it's 4 years since I joined the lads around the coffee pot (4 Dec 2004). (good)

Starting a cold, so I'm going to the off-licence for a bottle of cooking whisky to cool my tea and my fevered brow.(bad)

My niece has got me satellite TV for my 70th [comes Wednesday].(good)

Interest rates down to 2%, saving and shares now worth bugger all.(bad)

Dear lady is taking us to The Summer Garden, a superb chinese restaurant for a great big oriental nosh-up.[good]

Vet put me on Statins end Oct. Poorly all through Nov. (bad)

Stopped taking the stuff, now feeling better.(good)

Now the bads exceed the goods and the best way to even the score would be for all those fat cat bankers in London, Zurich and Wall Street to imitate Icharus by taking flight from the very highest available place.

John Baker

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Posted by kpolak on Saturday, December 6, 2008 5:39 AM

Morning all!

I think Don should be Secretary of State!  Go get 'em.  Except, I think they manufacture air guitars in Hawaii.  I guess they'll sent those to China too.

I started re-reading the Screwtape letters.  That crazy Wormwood.  Great book!  Sounds like an interesting play.

Well the Christmas Line is up and running.  Managed to get the buffalo snow in place, and the trains and accessories wired up.  Buildings to be constructed today.  Almost 4-yo was killing me with her excitement!  I ran the 2025, with 5700 reefer cars, as a test, and she blew the whistle shack wistle to wake up the passengers (which was pretty much all the time).  She told me when to stop the train to pick people up, and when to let them off.  This lasted about 30-minutes!  Bride told me I need more operating accessories that the kids can push buttons to operate...Whistling  This was on the heels of the "you need to stop buying trains" talk.  We added a Mr. Christmas carousel this year!

Kurt

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Posted by ChiefEagles on Saturday, December 6, 2008 6:36 AM

Out the door to lake.  Property Owners Assoc. work day.  Later.

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Posted by fifedog on Saturday, December 6, 2008 7:25 AM

Mornin' boys.  Mornin' English.  Clear and 23 here in the Mid-Atlantic region.  S'posed to shoot all the way up to 35!

You all have some very valid arguments into the economy.  And our legislators in nearby Washington D.C are really interested in your input.  Now, kindly place your wallets in the basket as it's passed by.

Thank you.

jonadel - I took up watching BBC news.

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Posted by cnw1995 on Saturday, December 6, 2008 8:57 AM

Morning all. Snowing here. Back from church where I shoveled the walks before leading the men's group. Boy, that sounds holy - it was more the only way I could get to the door. Boy, I am so impressed with Don's acumen I plan to vote for him for President. Drat, I'm too late. Kurt, the enthusiasm of the youngsters is sure wonderful - my youngest just wants to get outside and make snow angels. . . We're going to see the modular layout at the library later - I think the club is in Libertyville which is about an hour away. .

Congratulations on John Baker's little-over-four-year anniversary on the forum. He'll stand a round of good English beer...

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Posted by sir james I on Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:17 AM

Good Morning All

I agree with the chief on two main issues about the auto LOANS. I think the greedy oil companys did cause this problem, not only here but world wide. And that most of the auto workers are overpaid. However in recennt years, new employees have been hired at a lower pay scale. BUT how putting up to half a million taxpayers on unemployement and later many onto welfare is going to help the U.S.  economy is beyond me. And Dennis hospitols close because unemployed people can't pay their bills. If they have to choose between paying a medical bill or buy milk for their kids there is no contest. I'm done.

We have cold air and snow this morning. A good day to stay inside and read OGR or run some trains. It's only suppose to be about two inch's of snow, but staying in still sounds like a good idea. No train show till next Saturday so I guess all I can do is wait till then. Or maybe go now and be the first in line.  S.J.

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Posted by jonadel on Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:25 AM

Good morning from north east Iowa where the boss and I are taking care of the princess all day until bedtime, it's a WONDERFUL job Smile  I've already read 3 books this morning to her and now it's just about time to head to Caboose Stop Hobby store Thumbs Up  I'd really like to help out the economy today, if that Standard Gauge is still there I just might............... Whistling

I was stood up again by DirecTV yesterday, 2nd day in a row, talk about frustrating.  Sharyl had taken the afternoon off yesterday so we could leave early and get up here but I was told they would appear at our home between 12:00 PM -- 4:00 PM so I waited and she left, at least gas is cheap.  I finally left at 5:15 PM and spent most of the two hour drive on my cell phone trying to find out what the heck is going on.  Got cut off twice after waiting 15 minutes Angry  Almost everyone was apologetic but problem solving seemed less important.  Here are the states I talked with on my drive:  California--dispatch call center, TN- DirecTV, Georgia-DirecTV, CA-again and finally OHIO another dispatch call center.  The DirecTV folks are trying to help but it's the 3rd party vendors that are the problem, probably over stretched and under paid--crummy work conditions at this time of year.  I'm determined to stay at this but if nothing is resolved by Tuesday I'm going to go with my own independent installer, very frustrating.

Even though the afternoon was frustrating I got an email just before I left with the results of the kids I have been working with since Sept., TREMENDOUS results so I felt a lot better, I need to worry less about things I have no control over.

 Off to the Train Store!!!!!!!

Jon

So many roads, so little time. 

 

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