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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by henry6 on Friday, September 18, 2009 9:54 PM

AN ASIDE TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATE IN THESE QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSIONS:

Which railroad is most like wanswheel?

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, September 18, 2009 6:57 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
I will say that it's the "Jet Rocket", on RI, between Chicago and Peoria.

Yep, that would be the one I was looking for.  That might have been too easy.

 Your turn.
 

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Posted by henry6 on Friday, September 18, 2009 8:39 AM

Hmmmm....I was thinking RI's use of Aerotrain...but PRR, NYC and NH also used them.

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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, September 18, 2009 8:26 AM

How about the CNS&M "Electroliners" operated between Chicago and Milwaukee they fit all of the criteria in the question to a tee.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, September 18, 2009 7:46 AM

I will say that it's the "Jet Rocket", on RI, between Chicago and Peoria.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:58 PM

 Yup my turn.  I've been working very long days.... Ok, should be a simple one.

Name the train who's floor was only 26" above the rails, the cars of the train were 2' 8" lower than a normal coach, was 1/2 the weight of conventional equipment.  Chicago was one of its end points.

Looking for the train name, road, and other end point.  Any one of those gives away the other two.
 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:09 PM

AWP290

I think so, too, but to answer Al's question - No.  To my knowledge there is no question before the trivia list currently.

Bob Hanson

As I read what has gone before, it's Texas Zepher's question to ask.

Johnny

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Posted by AWP290 on Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:47 PM

I think so, too, but to answer Al's question - No.  To my knowledge there is no question before the trivia list currently.

Bob Hanson

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:55 PM

I think they all have been outstanding!  And interesting, too!  Some more thoughtful than others, but otherwise, top notch!

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:56 PM

Is there a question outstanding?   -   al-in-chgo

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM

thanks!

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:28 AM

I did remember after posting that that the Naragansett Beach, Pier, and River, were all in Rhode Island, not Masachusetts.  In fact. the branch line, whose electrification did not last very long, became one of the Pinsley New England short lines, the Narragansett Pier Railroad.   I rode it in the winter of 1949-1950.  It connected with the NEC at Kingston, which is southeast of Providence.   The passenger equipment at that time was  flanged wheel school bus painted a bright blue.  It ran backwards in one direction, without any backup controller.  There was also a GE 70-tonner for freight.  The only freight cars I remember seeing on line were coal hopper cars.   The shoolbus "train" made connection with several of the NY Boston trains that stopped at Kingston.   I think the line has been abandoned.   It had its own stub passenger track at Kingston which I think was still in place when I last rode the line some 14 years ago, befor NEC Boston electrification.

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:49 PM

When the GN operated the Empire Builder during the 1950's and 1960's each days eastbound train changed out dining cars , Lounge Cars and Ranch cars in St. Paul. Then a newly stocked Dining,  Lounge and Ranch car was cut in for the trip to Chicago and then ran all the way to Seattle and back to St. Paul. This continued in this manner even after the full Dome Lounge cars were added and right up to Amtrak. Additional items could be restocked in Chicago, St. Paul, Havre, and Seattle to top off anything necessary. The fresh seafood offerings were always put on in Seattle.  The same thing occurred with the Western Star. Trains such as the Internationals, Cascadian, and the GN pool train to Portland from Seattle were stocked up in Seattle although I only remember a cart for sandwiches and drinks on the Seattle - Portland pool train of the GN. Both the NP and UP offered full dining and lounge service on there Seattle - Poretland pool trains. For many years the UP provided there Seattle Portland pool train with Dome dining as the former GM Train of Tomorrow domes were assigned to the UP Seattle - Portland pool trains.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:14 AM

daveklepper
One is the Housatonic and the other is the Naragansett.  

Wikipedia tells us, "The Narragansett River, an old name for 1.) the Pawcatuck River [1] or 2.) what is now called the Blackstone River, Seekonk River, Providence River, and Narragansett Bay."

Narragansett, R. I., is on Rhode Island Sound; there may well be beaches there.

Dave, you must have missed the renaming of the river.Smile

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:33 AM

TZ and Dave,

I stand corrected. Your replies prompted me to recheck the route of the Nutmeg in my OG's. No's 128 & 129 did indeed run between Boston and Waterbury.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:18 AM

But by that time had not the Nutmeg been discontiniued, at least as a named passenger train?

 

Oh yes, it is the Naugatuck River, not Naragansett, as one of the two rivers west of the Connecticut River in Connecticut. 

 

I rode the Comet, the articulated Goodyear built New Haven streamliner, in this  service around 1951.  But the Comet referred to the equipment, not the train name.

 

The Naragansett was in Massachusetts, and I think it is a beach town, not a river!   Buyt maybe both.   Anyway, it was also on a New Haven branch line.   One of the NYNH&N's early electrification experiments.   If I remember correctly, third rail 600V DC with MU open-bench summer cars!   Three running boards to climb on each side, possibly 18 benches seating 90 people per car.

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:20 AM

Waterbury Union Station. I think trains to Hartford ceased in 1955 when a flood of the Naugatuck River ruined the tracks.

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2006051319084228982.jpg

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?200606281119041508.jpg

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=189082

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:36 AM

Are you sure it was Boston - Harford?  Through trains Boston - Hartford generally ran through to Waterbury.   Worth checking.  But perhaps train numbers were changed and the name dropped at Hartford.

 

Yes, Waterbury is a RIVER PORT.    Center of weapon manufacturering and copper items.   And, blast it, I am b locking on the name of the River.   Help!

No service today to Boston, and track missing in spots but land-banked in Connecticut.

Sevice to NY on Metro North - CDot.

 

Wait, just remembered, there are two rivers running north-south through Connecticut west of the Connecticiut River that linkes Old Saybrook and Hartford.   One is the Housatonic and the other is the Naragansett.   I THINK, but am not sure, that the Housatonic is the river through Danbury (still serrice to NY) and Lee and Great Bararington MA (tracks in, museum operations, freight service), and the Naaragansett is the river up to Waterbury.   Please correct me if I am mistaken.

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, September 14, 2009 11:07 PM

TZ,

You've got it so pour yourself a glass and ask the next question. It was the New Haven's Nutmeg which is a common ingredient of egg nog but a peculiar name for a train. According to my info the Nutmeg ran between Boston and Hartford.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, September 14, 2009 9:28 PM

KCSfan
What passenger train had the same name as an ingredient commonly found in a drink that is traditionally associated with the Christmas season? Name the train, the railroad which operated it and its end point terminals.

Hmmm, no idea.

Bay State, NH, NYC-Boston?  bay is usually NOT a christmas drink spice Clown.

Maple Leaf, VIA/Amtrak, NY-Toronto? 

Christmas drinks:
egg nog (eggs, milk, sugar, vanilla, nutmeg, rum)
hot spiced cider (apple cider, cinnamon, brown sugar, allspice, cloves, orange w/peel)
wassail (apple cider, red wine, ginger, cinnamon, orange juice, pineapple juice, cloves, honey)
candy cane cocoa (milk, chocolate, peppermint)
 

I'm not seeing anything to make a connection with. 

Orange Blossom Special, SAL, NYC-Miami?

Ah wait a minute. 

The Nutmeg,  NYNH&H,  Boston-Waterbury?  Is Waterbury a port?

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, September 14, 2009 7:37 PM

AWP290

Mark, I didn't say the diners were switched out, only provisioned and crews changed.  The diners were switched out and serviced mechanically at either end of the run.

 Bob

That makes a lot more sense. I misunderstood and couldn't think of any reason for the cars themselves to be swapped out.

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Posted by AWP290 on Monday, September 14, 2009 6:42 PM

Mark, I didn't say the diners were switched out, only provisioned and crews changed.  The diners were switched out and serviced mechanically at either end of the run.

The situation I laid out changed in 1957 (maybe '58) when the A&WP contracted with Southern Railway to service and operate its diners.  After that time the WPR diners were stocked and crews changed in Atlanta.  The West Point Route china was replaced with Southern's Piedmont pattern at the same time, although the West Point Route-marked silver remained on board.

Bob

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, September 14, 2009 5:42 PM

KCSfan
Until you asked this question I had no idea that different diners were switched in and out of the Crescent enroute as the train passed from one railroad to another. This seems a most unusual practice and I'm wondering why it was done this way. Unless I'm greatly mistaken I think it was far more normal for the diner(s) of long distance streamliners to remain in the consist for the train's entire run with dormitory cars provided for diner and lounge car personnel when they were not actually working. I'm thinking of trains such as the City of Miami, Southwind, Golden State Ltd, Empire Builder, California Zephyr, the City trains of the UP, CNW and Wabash, etc.

Mark, perhaps the Southern was different. And, I don't think that you can blame the L&N and A&WP wanting to take care of their own cars. I had not thought of changing their diners in Montgomery nor of restocking them in Mobile.

When I rode the City of Portland from Portland to Chicago in April of 1971, the Portland diner ran between Green River and Portland, of course, for there was not enough business to warrant two diners east of Green River. I had the impression that at least the crew changed in Omaha, for I have memory of a different steward (I think he was MILW), and I think the diner was also changed. That was my only experience with the UP's Cities Service.

Johnny

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, September 14, 2009 4:21 PM

Bob,

Until you asked this question I had no idea that different diners were switched in and out of the Crescent enroute as the train passed from one railroad to another. This seems a most unusual practice and I'm wondering why it was done this way. Unless I'm greatly mistaken I think it was far more normal for the diner(s) of long distance streamliners to remain in the consist for the train's entire run with dormitory cars provided for diner and lounge car personnel when they were not actually working. I'm thinking of trains such as the City of Miami, Southwind, Golden State Ltd, Empire Builder, California Zephyr, the City trains of the UP, CNW and Wabash, etc.

On to the next question. What passenger train had the same name as an ingredient commonly found in a drink that is traditionally associated with the Christmas season? Name the train, the railroad which operated it and its end point terminals.

Mark  

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Posted by AWP290 on Monday, September 14, 2009 5:24 AM

Mark -

You got it.  Montgomery on the West Point Route and Mobile on the L&N.  I always figured that WPR diners would be provisioned in Atlanta and the L&N in New Orleans, but I found out otherwise when I went through the operating file on Tr.s 37-38 in the NS archives several years ago.

A fifteen minute stop in Mobile doesn't sound like a lot, but if you wire ahead your requirements and have the supplies, and the personnel, on hand it doesn't take too long to load the diner.

Okay, Mark - your turn.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, September 14, 2009 1:10 AM

If not NO and Atl then I'd guess both the West Point Route and L&N diners must have been stocked at Montgomery and their crews headquartered there as well.

Southbound the Crescent left Atlanta at 8:35am and arrived Montgomery at 11:30 so only breakfast would be served. Going north it left at Montgomery at 7:40am and arrived Atlanta at 1:15pm so both breakfast and lunch would be served in the West Point car.

Heading south the train left Montgomery on the L&N at 11:30am and arrived NO at 6:45pm. Lunch would be served but I'll bet the dinner patrons were relatively few as most, particularly first class, passengers probably opted to wait and dine in one of NO's fine restaurants rather than eat on the train. Northbound the Crescent left NO at 8:00pm and arrived Montgomery at 7:15am so breakfast was probably the only meal served.

There was a 15 minute station stop at Mobile which was the only other place the L&N diner could be provisioned if not at Montgomery.

Mark

 

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Posted by AWP290 on Sunday, September 13, 2009 9:08 PM

After shooting from the hip in my earlier post, I did my homework.

After checking a December 1964 Official Guide I found that the Pan carried the cars for the Crescent out of New Orleans.  The cars for No. 34,  the Piedmont Limited were hauled by the Gulf Wind.

The trains were separated in Montgomery and Flomaton, AL, respectively.

All this is several years after the era of my question on the Crescent's diners, however.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

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Posted by AWP290 on Sunday, September 13, 2009 6:41 PM

The L&N had a number of "phantom" trains.  At one time, I believe, they operated one train out of New Orleans that carried cars for the Pan American, Gulf Wind, the Crescent, unless I'm mistaken.  They cut out the Wind at Flomaton, AL, the Crescent at Montgomery, and the Pan continued on its way.

It may have been the Humming Bird, not the Pan, but either way, they got three trains out of New Orleans for the price of one.

Trains had a piece on this practice in the February, 1964, issue, complete with car routing charts.

Deggesty

This is not in direct response to Bob's question, but does relate to the operation of the Crescent.

Since there were only four complete sets of lightweight equipment, and there was not much time to turn the train if it was late arriving in New Orleans even when it left at 11:00 pm, I wonder if the train that came in one day, except for the diner (they were changed out along the way, so the diner had to be turned the same day), went back north the next day. It seems to me that Pullman had a larger stock of replacement cars in New York than in New Orleans, so a train could be put together in New York to take the place of equipment that arrived too late to be turned.

By the way, Bob, welcome to the Trains and Classical Trains forums. It's always good to gain information from new members who are willing to share their knowledge with us all.

Southern Timetable 1/15/58: Crescent left NO at 11:00 pm, running as a separate train. Southern Timetable 5/11/58: Crescent is consolidated with Pan American from NO to Montgomery, leaving at 9:00 pm. At the same time, the southbound Pan American was consolidated with the Piedmont Limited from Montgomery to New Orleans. At one blow, the L&N eliminated a train between the two cities.

Johnny

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

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