Trains.com

Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

773388 views
7440 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 12:24 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The train ran from CUS to Savanna and was locally known as the "City of Savanna" or the "Lone Ranger".  It replaced the prior "City of Portland/City of Denver" schedule within Illinois.

 

As you say.  Most days the crew outnumbered the passengers.  The train was an intrastate remnant of UP/MILW's pre-"City of Everywhere" combinations.  From the late 1950s on the CofP and CofD ran on the CofD's number and timetable from Chicago to Denver with the CofP continuing to Portland via the Borie cutoff.  The CofLa and CofSF were the other combo.  From time to time int othe mid 1960s all of the "City" trains would run as separate trains, though usually as multiple sections.  The last "City" trains ran with the City of LA's numbers 103 and 104.

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 12,363 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 12:15 PM

The train ran from CUS to Savanna and was locally known as the "City of Savanna" or the "Lone Ranger".  It replaced the prior "City of Portland/City of Denver" schedule within Illinois.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Monday, February 15, 2021 6:18 AM

I'll toss out another Chicago-area train for ID.  After UP and Milwaukee consolidated the "City" trains into the "City of Everywhere" one additional schedule remained on MILW's west line that went beyond Elgin.  Usually just an FP7 and a reclining seat coach, it was locally known as a "City" train, though not called such in the timetable.  I'll lead with the train numbers, 111 and 112.  What was the train's local nickname, and which "City" train did it replace in the schedule?

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,524 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, February 15, 2021 5:07 AM

Glad to give the honors to rc if he wants them.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, February 13, 2021 4:23 PM

C&NW's trains 1 and 2 (except Sundays and Holidays) and 11 and 12 (Sundays and Holidays only) were the remnant of the Kate Shelley 400 between Chicago and Boone IA.  Cut back to Clinton IA around 1965, they ran out their years with a pair of 56-seat ex-400 coaches and one of two steam generator equipped C&NW E7s, 5012B or 5013B.  They were also the last C&NW trains that did not carry at least the occasional bilevel.  C&NW had retired all other E7s before the trains' last run, and all C&NW E8s had been converted to HEP for commuter or long-distance (with bilevels) service.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,524 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, February 13, 2021 4:02 PM

Whichever was the last passenfger train to operate beyond the suburban zone on the line to the west 1o Iowa.

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 12,363 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, February 12, 2021 1:57 PM

And on to the next question:  Which Chicago & North Western passenger train was the last on that railroad to operate with steam heat?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 3,326 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, February 11, 2021 5:07 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

I would say that we're looking for air-brake repeater cars.

Correct.  Their name varies from railroad to railroad but they all work the same, carrying their own diesel engine and air compressor and using radio signals from the lead engine to duplicate what its brake valve is doing.  

CN officially calls them "Distributed Braking Cars", but switch lists shorten that to "AirCar", which is their most common name out on the property.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 12,363 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, February 11, 2021 12:03 PM

I would say that we're looking for air-brake repeater cars.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,524 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, February 11, 2021 3:00 AM

Flame or other heating device to unclog ice- or snow-cloged switches and diamonds?

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 3,326 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, February 11, 2021 1:01 AM

Great Northern was the first to use this specialized type of rolling stock to combat cold-related problems.  

Several other railroads tried them over the years, but CN is their only current user.  

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,524 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, February 10, 2021 2:53 AM

Waiting for an SD&Dude question!

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Monday, February 1, 2021 12:57 PM

Well Done!  Unlike contemporary streamline trains, the Rebels were designed from the beginning as separate cars. Carbodies came from ACF's Berwick PA plant (as did all cars).  351-353 came in 1935, 354 followed a bit later.  Eventually used as far as East St. Louis after the M&O merger they were pulled from service in the early 1950s.

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 3,326 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, February 1, 2021 11:54 AM

Gulf, Mobile and Northern's "Rebels"?

Built by ACF with McIntosh & Seymour 531 engines (M&S being owned by ALCO by this time) and Westinghouse electrical equipment.  

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Monday, February 1, 2021 6:18 AM

So a great follow-on:  There was one Alco-Westinghouse diesel-electric collaboration (not including repowers) that went in carbodies not built by Alco.  Name the Railroad.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, January 31, 2021 3:05 PM

What I have ben able to find is a reference in "Our GM Scrapbook" that E E1 and E2 types were available with Westinghouse or GE electricals by customer preference.  I was also able to determine that both AT&SF and C&NW/UP/SP units had GE parts...so by process of elimination...  Note that B&O boxcab 50 which was assembled at Erie like the 511-512, had GE parts.

It's interesting to note that  Westinghouse motors used the same gear ratios later used with EMC's own equipment, but GE motors were normally set up with different gearing.  By 1937, there were probably no patents in the way of EMC copying motor designs for its own products...

GMC supplied the controls - an extension of the design developed for 511/512 in 1935.  It wouldn't really matter whose generators and motors were used.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,062 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, January 31, 2021 2:29 PM

rcdrye
If you're thinking of B&O EA #51 (EMC B/N 666)?  Recently refurbed for display at the B&O Museum...

I am indeed.  Some very lovely pictures of the restored unit are appearing now.

It's perfectly plausible that 51 had Westinghouse electricals (also used in some NC and NW versions) but I can't find a convincing source.

See here:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45229&sid=9a03b3f97d0ff8167a11ae14f831aead[/quote]

If you need a more convincing authority for the Westinghouse electricals than Preston Cook, you may be waiting a very long time.  I didn't ask him how he knows, but I suspect he can tell interesting stories about how he does...

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,062 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, January 31, 2021 2:28 PM

rcdrye
If you're thinking of B&O EA #51 (EMC B/N 666)?  Recently refurbed for display at the B&O Museum...

I am indeed. 

It's perfectly plausible that 51 had Westinghouse electricals (also used in some NC and NW versions) but I can't find a convincing source.[/quote]See here:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45229&sid=9a03b3f97d0ff8167a11ae14f831aead

If you need a more convincing authority for the Westinghouse electricals than Preston Cook, you may be waiting a very long time.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, January 31, 2021 2:08 PM

If you're thinking of B&O EA #51 (EMC B/N 666)?  Recently refurbed for display at the B&O Museum... 

Trying to determine electrical supplier for early EMCs is tough since many sources list EMC part numbers for generators (D4) and traction motors (D7).  Those weren't made until late 1938/early 1939.  E1 and E2 models definitely had GE parts.  It's perfectly plausible that 51 had Westinghouse electricals (also used in some NC and NW versions) but I can't find a convincing source.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,062 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, January 31, 2021 10:37 AM

Far more famous ... although just looking at the builder's plate wouldn't tell you why.

The railroad is still 'alive and kicking' although long merged, but the reason for the recent fame is not merged away...

Something I had never noticed until just now was the somewhat 'satanic' serial number (that will give it away to rc and perhaps others...)

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • 1,555 posts
Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, January 31, 2021 1:39 AM

Hmm, a class of locomotive that is far more famous than the Mark Twain Zephyr 9903; the railroad is still alive and kicking; early diesel in the 1930s... Let me take a wild guess: Union Pacific M10000? Built by Pullman, EMC, Winton Engine Corporation, and GE.

Please enlighten me if I am wrong.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,062 posts
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, January 30, 2021 11:15 PM

We most certainly are.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 30, 2021 7:33 PM

Are we talking 1930s?

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,062 posts
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, January 30, 2021 6:22 PM

rcdrye
I think you're looking for the Mark Twain Zephyr 9903, which is undergoing restoration at Wisconsin Great Northern.  9903 had a GE GT-534 main generator and a pair of GE 716 traction motors.

No; you're right about the Westinghouse.  And the class of locomotive is far more famous.  

The railroad name is essential -- as it is to why being in recent news is important.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,524 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, January 30, 2021 12:55 PM

Correction made, East of Gettys Square, not west!

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 29, 2021 5:46 PM

Zephyr cab units (except the General Pershing Zephyr) and EA-E2s had GE or Westinghouse electricals, according to customer preference (I haven't found a list of which had which...) Not a big jump from using GE parts for doodlebugs.  The first EMCs with EMC traction motors were Soo(WC) NW1A's 2100-2102 in late 1938 (still with GE generators), after which all EMCs/EMDs used EMC/EMD electrical equipment.

I think you're looking for the Mark Twain Zephyr 9903, which is undergoing restoration at Wisconsin Great Northern.  9903 had a GE GT-534 main generator and a pair of GE 716 traction motors.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,062 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 29, 2021 2:06 PM

You have just about everything needed except the answer to the question.  There's a specific famous locomotive type involved... more famous than switchers.  (And in the news recently...)

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,062 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 29, 2021 2:05 PM

You have just about everything needed except the answer to the question.  There's a specific famous locomotive type involved... more famous than switchers.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 29, 2021 1:56 PM

Some early EMC NW and NC switchers were equipped with Westingouse electricals, others with GE.  EMC started using its own electrical equipment in 1938. The first NW switchers (with Westinghouse gear) went to the Santa Fe.

Balwin experimental 62000, built for the Santa Fe, was the first VO-engined Baldwin, with Allis-Chalmers electrical equipment. Baldwin took it back from Santa Fe.

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter