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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:03 PM
Well I can find lots of SAL streamliners for which Amtrak used their names but no heavyweights.
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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, October 10, 2009 3:17 PM

OK - here's the question:

A train name that was used by Amtrak was also used on a heavyweight Seaboard Air Line train several decades earlier.  Name the SAL train and endpoints.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, October 8, 2009 8:54 PM

 

ZephyrOverland

 

Texas Zepher

 Between 1941 (start of WWII) and February 1964 the NYC consolidated named passenger trains out of New York City from 21 to 9.  Seven of the 9 remaining in 1964 trains were in the original 21.  Name the two that were not. 

The Chicagoan and the World's Fair Special.

Those would be the two!  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York NYC 1941 

 No. Time  Train
43    2:00  Express to Chicago
 9     4:45  Local to Buffalo  (oops I said they were all named trains)
51   9:00   Empire State Express to Cleveland
 5   9:30   Mohawk to Chicago
39 12:30  North Shore to Chicago via Detroit
41   2:30  Knickerbocker to St. Louis
15   4:15  Ohio State Limited to Cincinnati
37   4:20  Advance Commodore to Chicago
67   4:30  Commodore to Chicago
 3    5:30  Pacemaker to Chicago
25   6:00  20th Century Limited to Chicago
17   6:05 Wolverine Chicago via Detroit
19   6:40 Lake Shore to Chicago
47   7:00 Detroiter to Detroit
11   8:00 Southwestern to Cleveland
21   8:05 Lake Erie to Cleveland
29   9:00 Niagra to Chicago via Detroit
35 10:40 Fast Mail to Buffalo
59 11:30 Iroquois to Chicago
63 11:50 Genesee to Buffalo

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York City - 1964

95   6:40  Express to Buffalo
51   8:45  Empire State Express to Cleveland
39 12:00  World's Fair Special to Chicago via Detroit
15  3:00  Ohio State Limited to Cincinnati
25  6:00  20th Century Limited to Chicago
17  6:15  Wolverine to Chicago via Detroit
57  7:00  Cleveland Limited to Cleveland
35 10:30  Iroquois to Chicago
59 11:15 Chicagoan to Chicago 
------------------------------------------------------

Your turn. 

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, October 8, 2009 6:26 PM

 

Texas Zepher

 Between 1941 (start of WWII) and February 1964 the NYC consolidated named passenger trains out of New York City from 21 to 9.  Seven of the 9 remaining in 1964 trains were in the original 21.  Name the two that were not. 

 

The Chicagoan and the World's Fair Special.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:29 AM

Texas Zepher
Between 1941 (start of WWII) and February 1964 the NYC consolidated named passenger trains out of New York City from 21 to 9.  Seven of the 9 remaining in 1964 trains were in the original 21.  Name the two that were not. 

Hint #1 - One was what we would consider a "normal" named train - one was a "specially" named train.
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, October 5, 2009 9:07 PM

 Between 1941 (start of WWII) and February 1964 the NYC consolidated named passenger trains out of New York City from 21 to 9.  Seven of the 9 remaining in 1964 trains were in the original 21.  Name the two that were not. 

 

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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, October 5, 2009 2:31 PM

ZephyrOverland

passengerfan

Your Question Zephyr Overland

 

I think you meant Texas Zepher.  

I think you are right Sorry. My excuse is I am busy with taxes for all of those on extension that waited until the last fifteen days to complete them.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, October 5, 2009 1:03 PM

passengerfan

Your Question Zephyr Overland

 

I think you meant Texas Zepher.  

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Posted by passengerfan on Sunday, October 4, 2009 7:23 AM

You got it right. Many people miss the 1950 Glacier series cars or simply overlook them. These additional Glacier cars made it possible for the Western Star to operate via Great Falls, MT. The Western Star was the actual workhorse of the GN before it was combined with the Fast Mail. It was the train that carried off-line sleepers during the summer months to and from Glacier National Park. They often carried SP sleepers from both Portland and Seattle to Glacier Park where the cars were used as the hotel space while there. From Chicago the Western Star carried eastern roads sleepers to Glacier National Park. Often the Western Star in summer months ran twenty cars. It must have really been something for the counter car and a 36 seat dining car to cope with. I believe that the Western Star dining cars were later increased to 40 seat cars. I have seen the Western Star travel in sections when it was combined with the Fast Mail at Christmas times. I read somewhere once where the Western Star was called the fastest freight in America. That was after it received SDP40s for power. Later the SDP40s and SDP45s could be found on either the Empire Builder or Western Star. I liked the Western Star yet probably rode the Builder three or four times as much. Summer in the 1950's found both trains operating full. Over on the NP the Mainstreeter never came close to the Western Star in passenger loads or as classy a train. One experience on the Mainstreeter was enough for me. The North Coast Limited was a class act and enjoyed it especially the way they placed the domes in the consist with a flat top car separating them. Once had the Navy travel office at Pier 91 in Seattle book my trip from Seattle to Chicago and they booked space on the North Coast Limited. From Chicago I rode the old North Shore to Great Lakes Naval base. I was there less than a month and was transferred once again to Boston Naval Shipyard. Had the opportunity to take the NYC New England States to Boston from Chicago.

Your Question Zephyr Overland

Al - in - Stockton  

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Saturday, October 3, 2009 3:54 PM

passengerfan
My question is name the GN lightweight streamlined Glacier series sleeping cars?

Delivered in 1947 for the first light weight Empire Builder:
#1170 Blackfoot Glacier
#1171 Ahern Glacier
#1172 Grinnell Glacier
#1173 Hanging Glacier
#1174 Many Glacier
#1175 Oberlin Glacier
#1176 Sexton Glacier
#1177 Harrison Glacier
#1178 Sperry Glacier - CB&Q car pooled to Empire Builder service
#1179 Siyeh Glacier - CB&Q
 

Then there was new equipment delivered in 1950 for the Western Star.  These were needed for a 6th set of trains needed for the new slower schedule.  These sleepers were in addition to the ones handed down from the Empire Builder when they outfitted the Mid-Century Builder:

#1181 Kintla Glacier
#1182 Agassiz Glacier
#1183 Hudson Glacier
#1184 Chaney Glacier
#1185 Paradise Glacier
#1186 Pumpelly Glacier
#1187 Tahoma Glacier
#1188 Two Ocean Glaicer

I have no idea what happened to #1180 and how it ended up being a different floor plan ("Pass" series) very confusing.
 

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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, October 2, 2009 8:07 PM

Deggesty

passengerfan
The UP brought a through Chicago - Seattle sleeping car from the City of Portland north from Portland as well as four SP sleeping cars from the Cascade. Once in Seattle the four SP sleeping cars were moved from Union Station to King St. Station under the Fourth Ave viaduct where they taken to the GN / NP coach yard for departure the next day on the NP pool train to Portland and the connection with that days southbound SP Cascade. Tickets were interchangeable from any of the three RRs that operated the pool trains.  

Al, the Seattle-Chicago car had to go back to Portland on the NP day train, along with the Seattle-San Francisco cars, since UP 458 came into Portland about nine in the evening. So this car also had to be moved to the GN/NP coach yard.

In 1950, the GN said that its train (459 & 460) had a diner, and the NP said that its day train, (407 & 408) had a restaurant car. All of the day trains had parlor cars then.

Johnny

Only remember the GN train having an attendant selling sandwiches, and drinks at ones seat on there pool train. Remember the NP had a full dining car a half lounge half Parlor car guess that would be about 1954 or 1955. If memory serves me right there was also an overnight pool train operated by each road for about three months at a time. Never rode the night train. The southbound UP train made connections with the Portland Rose out of Portland.

My question is name the GN lightweight streamlined Glacier series sleeping cars?

Al in Stockton 

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, October 2, 2009 5:48 PM

passengerfan
The UP brought a through Chicago - Seattle sleeping car from the City of Portland north from Portland as well as four SP sleeping cars from the Cascade. Once in Seattle the four SP sleeping cars were moved from Union Station to King St. Station under the Fourth Ave viaduct where they taken to the GN / NP coach yard for departure the next day on the NP pool train to Portland and the connection with that days southbound SP Cascade. Tickets were interchangeable from any of the three RRs that operated the pool trains.  

Al, the Seattle-Chicago car had to go back to Portland on the NP day train, along with the Seattle-San Francisco cars, since UP 458 came into Portland about nine in the evening. So this car also had to be moved to the GN/NP coach yard.

In 1950, the GN said that its train (459 & 460) had a diner, and the NP said that its day train, (407 & 408) had a restaurant car. All of the day trains had parlor cars then.

Johnny

Johnny

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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, October 2, 2009 5:16 PM

Texas Zepher

The UP purchased the equipment for the pool, but it was a pool service.  All three would have operated the equipment.   I never thought about it before but I wonder if that included the locomotive....

The UP purchased the E7 as well and originally assigned it to there pool train between Portland and Seattle. But the UP always charged a premium to ride the dome cars on there pool train except for the dome dining car. Rode the train many times when the domes were operated. The NP and the UP were the big guns of the Seattle - Portland pool the GN never even operated a full dining car as did the others. The UP brought a through Chicago - Seattle sleeping car from the City of Portland north from Portland as well as four SP sleeping cars from the Cascade. Once in Seattle the four SP sleeping cars were moved from Union Station to King St. Station under the Fourth Ave viaduct where they taken to the GN / NP coach yard for departure the next day on the NP pool train to Portland and the connection with that days southbound SP Cascade. Tickets were interchangeable from any of the three RRs that operated the pool trains.  

Al - in - Stockton

Will have a question ready in a couple of hours. Have to get a couple of clients taxes done first.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, October 2, 2009 12:36 PM

The UP purchased the equipment for the pool, but it was a pool service.  All three would have operated the equipment.   I never thought about it before but I wonder if that included the locomotive....

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 2, 2009 1:40 AM

Before we leave the Train of Tomorrow, I believe its eventual assignment, where I rode it, was in Seattle - Portland pool service.  Which railroad actually operated it?   NP. UP, or GN?

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:36 PM

Al, yes the Monon, 278 miles Chicago Dearborn to French Lick Springs Hotel, May 26, 1947. Return trip the next day. Your turn.

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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, October 1, 2009 7:18 PM

I believe it traveled on the MONON from Chicago to French Lick and back.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:01 AM

Or was it the NYO&W?

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 1, 2009 9:46 AM

The Baltimore and Ohio according to my somewhat dim memory.

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, October 1, 2009 9:40 AM

Where on what railroad did the Train of Tomorrow go on its inaugural run?

Mike

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:15 PM

If he doesn't have pics, then they don't exist!

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:49 PM
wanswheel

Happy B-Day  Mark, good luck at your new address: 77 Sunset Strip

Johnny, is this the route?

UP - West Yellowstone to Kansas City

Wabash - Kansas City to St. Louis

L&N - St. Louis to Nashville

NC&SL - Nashville to Atlanta

C of G - Atlanta to Albany

ACL - Albany to Jacksonville

Mike

That's it, Mike. Would you be able to find a picture of one of the cars on its way to or from West Yellowstone? Peter Maiken, in his Night Trains, did not tell us what accommodations the car had; he simply said that it ran that summer.

You, of of course now have the obligation to ask us a question.

As an aside, are you following the discussion of "Gasoline Powered Loco" in General Discussion in the Trains Magazine Forum?

Johnny

 

 

Johnny

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:34 PM

Happy B-Day  Mark, good luck at your new address: 77 Sunset Strip

Johnny, is this the route?

UP - West Yellowstone to Kansas City

Wabash - Kansas City to St. Louis

L&N - St. Louis to Nashville

NC&SL - Nashville to Atlanta

C of G - Atlanta to Albany

ACL - Albany to Jacksonville

Mike

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:32 AM

AWP290

No need to toss a coin, Johnny was first in with the answer, no question about it.

According to an AAR booklet dated 1948, both the Flyer and the Limited ran through to Miami via the route mentioned. (C&EI/L&N/NC&StL/CofG/ACL/FEC)

The Flagler, by this time (1948) ran via C&EI/NC&StL/L&N/ACL/FEC.

Go to it, Johnny!

 Bob

I had my doubts about the Dixie Flyer and Dixie Limited running through as separate trains to Miami--but, there have been so many variations in East Coast and Middle West-Florida service that one would have to have a complete file of Guides or timetables to be absolutely certain about any statement as to how and when any one train went.

New question: In the summer of 1925, the Pullman company operated a sleeper line between West Yellowstone, Mont., and Jacksonville, Fla. This service apparently did not ring a bell with the traveling public, since it was for one summer season only. Unless you have the actual information (I don't), don't bother about train names or the times of day. Tell us what railroads handled the car, and where it was switched from one road to another.

Johnny

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Posted by AWP290 on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:19 AM

No need to toss a coin, Johnny was first in with the answer, no question about it.

According to an AAR booklet dated 1948, both the Flyer and the Limited ran through to Miami via the route mentioned. (C&EI/L&N/NC&StL/CofG/ACL/FEC)

The Flagler, by this time (1948) ran via C&EI/NC&StL/L&N/ACL/FEC.

Go to it, Johnny!

 Bob

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:19 PM

The Dixie Flagler is the train I had in mind and Johnny's 100% correct about its route. Bob, I thought the Dixie Flyer/Dixie Ltd ran only to Jacksonville and not on to Miami over the FEC. I believe they did however carry through sleepers to both west coast points and Miami that ran in connecting trains of the ACL and FEC south of Jacksonville. If you're correct about either running over the FEC to Miami then you and Johnny will have to toss a coin (or cut cards or arm wrestle) to see who gets to ask the next question.

Mark

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Posted by AWP290 on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:28 PM

The Dixie Flyer/Dixie Limited ran over six roads until 1952, when they were rerouted via ACL (former AB&C) out of Atlanta.  Until that time the routing was C&EI/L&N/NC&StL/CofG/ACL/FEC.

And Johnny, I thought of the Dixie Flagler  on the AB&C, too, but felt that the 1950's portion of Mark's question.  We're on the same lines, anyway.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:59 PM

The only one with six that I could think of was the Dixie Flagler, before the AB&C was folded into the ACL.

C&EI: Chicago-Evansville

L&N: Evansville-Nashville

NC&StL: Nashville-Atlanta

AB&C: Atlanta-Waycross

ACL: Waycross-Jacksonville

FEC: Jacksonville-Miami

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:38 PM

AWP290

The most roads in one route that I can come up with are six.

 Am I even in the ball park?

 (And this one is supposed to be easier than the previous question?)

 Bob

Bob,

You're not only in the ball park but you're close to scoring a run. The train I had in mind ran over six roads. Just name the train, the different roads over which it ran and the end point cities/towns of each roads segment of the route.

Of course there's a possibility someone else knows of a route involving more railroads that I've overlooked

Mark

 

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Posted by AWP290 on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:36 PM

The most roads in one route that I can come up with are six.

 Am I even in the ball park?

 (And this one is supposed to be easier than the previous question?)

 Bob

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