daveklepperI belive the PRR had two postwar twin-unit (three trucks, two car bodies or just a separate kitchen car, my memory falls short on telling me which) diners that saw sevice on the Broadway and other trains as well, both built by Budd and painted Tuscan red.
Dave, do you (or anyone else) have a picture of one of these twin units? Robert Wayner does not indicate that they were articulated. They were numbered (6 pairs of dining room car and kitchen-dormitory car) 4610-4611, 4614-4615, 4616-4617, 4618-4619, 4620-4621, and 4622-4623. So far as I remember, the SP was the only road that had articulated dining room-kitchen cars, all of which were built by Pullman. The 1940 Daylight had a coffee shop-kitchen-dining room set; the 1941 Morning Daylight also had three-unit sets--and the 1941 Lark had a dormitory kitchen-dining room-tavern lounge set. I saw one of the sets in Houston in October of 1971.
Johnny
Unpainted stainless steel Slumbercoaches also operated on B&O.
I belive the PRR had two postwar twin-unit (three trucks, two car bodies or just a separate kitchen car, my memory falls short on telling me which) diners that saw sevice on the Broadway and other trains as well, both built by Budd and painted Tuscan red. When Penn Central took over, they had the cars sandblasted to remove the paint, the thought being they could then look better when running with ex-NYC equipment as well as PRR.
The reason the NP Budd Slumbercoarches were not painted but left stainless is they were in pool service with the identacle CB&Q cars. One could find an NP car on the Denver Zephyr headed for Colorado Springs and a CB&Q car running to Seattle. This pool was set up to minimize idle time in Chicago.
passengerfanCB&Q owned dome sleepers and dome coaches painted for NCL also owned GN domes for Empire Builder service
Sort out who named the most and its there question next.
CSSHEGEWISCH The NP dome sleepers were painted in IC chocolate and orange when they were assigned to the "City of Miami" during the winter months.
The NP dome sleepers were painted in IC chocolate and orange when they were assigned to the "City of Miami" during the winter months.
I'm not sure if this would be an appropriate answer but the C&NW had an ex-PRR Budd sleeper in their business train fleet that was painted in the later C&NW paint scheme.
passengerfan Heres the list that I came up with. PRR Southwind and various prewar Budd Dining Cars. UP Pacific series sleepers Baggage 60'RPOs5903-5911 44-Seat Leg Rest Coaches 5508-5527 SP 44-Seat Leg Rest Coaches 2362,2363 KCS Tavern Lounge Observations ex NYC 48-51- KCS 44-47 later 40-43 after lunchg counter added IC Ex MP Domes purchased by IC and also certain NP Dome sleepers repainted in wintermonths for IC City of Miami service. NP Coach and Sleeper domes also Budd built dining cars for NCL CB&Q owned dome sleepers and dome coaches painted for NCL also owned GN domes for Empire Builder service SP&S owned NP dome coach and GN dome coach and also painted the NP dome coach into there awful color scheme. MP Budd equipment assigned to Colorado Eagles and postwar dome coaches assigned to Clorado Eagles and Missouri River Eagle. N&W sleepers 21 roomette GN Dome Coaches and Full dome lounges for Empire Builder many of the cars also received Big Sky Blue scheme BN At least one complete Empire Builder train set received the BN Green scheme. Sort out who named the most and its there question next. Al - in - Stockton
Heres the list that I came up with.
PRR Southwind and various prewar Budd Dining Cars.
UP Pacific series sleepers Baggage 60'RPOs5903-5911 44-Seat Leg Rest Coaches 5508-5527
SP 44-Seat Leg Rest Coaches 2362,2363
KCS Tavern Lounge Observations ex NYC 48-51- KCS 44-47 later 40-43 after lunchg counter added
IC Ex MP Domes purchased by IC and also certain NP Dome sleepers repainted in wintermonths for IC City of Miami service.
NP Coach and Sleeper domes also Budd built dining cars for NCL
CB&Q owned dome sleepers and dome coaches painted for NCL also owned GN domes for Empire Builder service
SP&S owned NP dome coach and GN dome coach and also painted the NP dome coach into there awful color scheme.
MP Budd equipment assigned to Colorado Eagles and postwar dome coaches assigned to Clorado Eagles and Missouri River Eagle.
N&W sleepers 21 roomette
GN Dome Coaches and Full dome lounges for Empire Builder many of the cars also received Big Sky Blue scheme
BN At least one complete Empire Builder train set received the BN Green scheme.
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfanThe UP sleepers were the fifty PACIFIC series 10-6s built by Budd.
There were also 20 coaches--5508-5527, delivered in 1961, and 9 RPO's, 5903-5911, delivered in 1963.
Pacific Castle figures in the life of my wife and me. I spent the night in a roomette from Washington to St. Louis in July of 1971; my wife (before we married) spent a night in a roomette from Chicago to Birmingham, in May of 1972 (I rode the northbound up to Decatur and then sat in the roomette with her between there and Birmingham)--and we spent a night in a bedroom from Washington to Birmingham in the spring of 1989. A redcap took us down to the train on his cart in Washington, and we were pleased as we passed Pacific Sands and saw that we would be in Pacific Castle.
Texas Zepher passengerfanZephyrOverlandHow about sleepers in Union Pacific yellow and Norfolk and Western Red?Thats two moreAl, Can you please tell us which UP cars these were? UP were such big ACF customers I didn't find any Budd in their fleet. Of course their fleet was so large, I'm certain they are in my list just so few they were not obvious. Then continuing I'm going to guess the NYC. The Budd built 22 roomettes Harbor series delivered for the 20th Century in April-June of 1949, the 10-6 Valley's, and the 6 bedroom buffett lounges (stream series), and the 5 double bedroom buffet/lounge Observations (brook series). I say guess because I don't have any pictures of them, but I would assume that the "new" 20th Century is not going to break its look by having a stainless car cut in among all the two-tone grey. Even if not these the NYC had such a huge fleet surely at least one among them got painted.
passengerfanZephyrOverlandHow about sleepers in Union Pacific yellow and Norfolk and Western Red?Thats two more
ZephyrOverlandHow about sleepers in Union Pacific yellow and Norfolk and Western Red?
Then continuing I'm going to guess the NYC. The Budd built 22 roomettes Harbor series delivered for the 20th Century in April-June of 1949, the 10-6 Valley's, and the 6 bedroom buffett lounges (stream series), and the 5 double bedroom buffet/lounge Observations (brook series). I say guess because I don't have any pictures of them, but I would assume that the "new" 20th Century is not going to break its look by having a stainless car cut in among all the two-tone grey. Even if not these the NYC had such a huge fleet surely at least one among them got painted.
Al in Stockton
Then I'm going to have to go with the Canadian National - former GN domes, and the SP&S with their pool cars such as dome 559 for the North Coast limited. Painted in Lowey two-town green, then SP&S own truly ugly Pullman Green & Yellow .
http://trainweb.org/DOMEmain/picSPS559g.jpg
http://trainweb.org/DOMEmain/picSPS306z.jpg
How many were we still needing? New York Susqhanna & Western had a full dome painted in a nasty red & yellow scheme. Do more "modern" railroads count like Conrail, Norfolk Southern, BN executive fleet. They also have painted full domes in various colors.
Then the SP&S car above moved to Alaska.
Thought that might be the case.
This is an interesting question.
Bob
AWP290 The L&N had some lightweight, stainless steel sheathed coaches that were painted in their shade of blue, but these were repaints, and not Budd cars. Don't know if they'd count or not. Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
The L&N had some lightweight, stainless steel sheathed coaches that were painted in their shade of blue, but these were repaints, and not Budd cars.
Don't know if they'd count or not.
Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
Nice try but the L&N cars do not count as they were not Budd built cars.
Thats two more brings us to nine but I can't count either because my list says twelve so we have three more to go that I know of.
CSSHEGEWISCH The first "South Wind" was Budd-built (owned by PRR) and was painted Tuscan Red. KCS had some second-hand Budd-built observation cars that were painted black with red and yellow trim.
The first "South Wind" was Budd-built (owned by PRR) and was painted Tuscan Red.
KCS had some second-hand Budd-built observation cars that were painted black with red and yellow trim.
Texas Zepher passengerfanhow many RRs had fully painted Budd Stainless Steel cars.Well I'll start with the Northern Pacific. The dome coaches and dome sleepers added to the NCL in 1954 were all painted appropriately (which also means these cars were painted IC, and carried BN green). This is interesting since the NP did not paint the slumbercoaches (24-8 duplex sleepers) but left them stainless..? The SP had 44 seat coaches #2362 & 2363, but they were painted in armor yellow "city of". The MP had several (most) cars in the Colorado Eagle set (including the 10-6 Eagle series) that were painted Eagle colors. The GN added Budd built cars were added to the mid century builder in 1955. These were the domes. They were painted in Empire Builder, Big Sky, and later BN green. The full domes got several experimental BN paint jobs. Later the GN purchased some Frisco diners that got painted big sky. Ummmmm, .... can't think of any others. Most were stainless with some sort of sash.
passengerfanhow many RRs had fully painted Budd Stainless Steel cars.
The SP had 44 seat coaches #2362 & 2363, but they were painted in armor yellow "city of".
The MP had several (most) cars in the Colorado Eagle set (including the 10-6 Eagle series) that were painted Eagle colors.
The GN added Budd built cars were added to the mid century builder in 1955. These were the domes. They were painted in Empire Builder, Big Sky, and later BN green. The full domes got several experimental BN paint jobs. Later the GN purchased some Frisco diners that got painted big sky.
Ummmmm, .... can't think of any others. Most were stainless with some sort of sash.
The GN added Budd built cars to the mid century builder in 1955. These were the domes. They were painted in Empire Builder, Big Sky, and later BN green. The full domes got several experimental BN paint jobs. Later the GN purchased some Frisco diners that got painted big sky.
wanswheel Al, yes your turn. William Hood also designed the Tehachapi Loop.
Al, yes your turn. William Hood also designed the Tehachapi Loop.
My question is during the streamlined car building frenzy of the thirties to late fifties how many RRs had fully painted Budd Stainless Steel cars. I dont mean just the letterboards or the window panels but the entire car was painted to match there non-Budd stainless steel cars. Name the RRs will be enough but if you know the car types thats even better?
passengerfanThe Lucin cutoff was designed and built SP Chief Engineer William Hood. Construction began on the shortcut across the Great Salt Lake in February 1902 and opened for service on March 8, 1904 becoming one of the Railroad Wonders of the World.
And, at last, Promontory Point (on the lake) had a railroad running through it! It is truly sad to see someone write that the CP and UP met at Promontory Point; even some around here have written this nonsense, not knowing their local geography.
wanswheel Doublechecked and it certainly was Feb.14, Jack Benny's birthday. http://images2.tobaccodocuments.org/snapshot_atc/w750r0/0060233253_p23.png?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tobaccodocuments.org%2Fcgi%2Ftif2png.pl%3Ffn%3Dn%253A%252Ffilesets%252Fsnapshot_atc1%252FATCO05%255CDOCS-150%255C466%252F0060233253.TIF%26antialias%3D1%26page%3D23 http://images2.tobaccodocuments.org/snapshot_atc/w750r0/0060233253_p24.png?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tobaccodocuments.org%2Fcgi%2Ftif2png.pl%3Ffn%3Dn%253A%252Ffilesets%252Fsnapshot_atc1%252FATCO05%255CDOCS-150%255C466%252F0060233253.TIF%26antialias%3D1%26page%3D24 Who designed and built the Lucin Cutoff? Mike
Doublechecked and it certainly was Feb.14, Jack Benny's birthday.
http://images2.tobaccodocuments.org/snapshot_atc/w750r0/0060233253_p23.png?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tobaccodocuments.org%2Fcgi%2Ftif2png.pl%3Ffn%3Dn%253A%252Ffilesets%252Fsnapshot_atc1%252FATCO05%255CDOCS-150%255C466%252F0060233253.TIF%26antialias%3D1%26page%3D23
http://images2.tobaccodocuments.org/snapshot_atc/w750r0/0060233253_p24.png?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tobaccodocuments.org%2Fcgi%2Ftif2png.pl%3Ffn%3Dn%253A%252Ffilesets%252Fsnapshot_atc1%252FATCO05%255CDOCS-150%255C466%252F0060233253.TIF%26antialias%3D1%26page%3D24
Who designed and built the Lucin Cutoff?
Mike
The Lucin cutoff was designed and built SP Chief Engineer William Hood. Construction began on the shortcut across the Great Salt Lake in February 1902 and opened for service on March 8, 1904 becoming one of the Railroad Wonders of the World.
wanswheel Feb. 1, 1960, except in the summer 1960-66.
We've already gotten the history of the beautiful observations cars - converted to coaches. Ouch!
Wanswheel take the next question.
al-in-chgo Nice photos! I had no idea that an obs. car dating back to the 1920s could have no rear deck(if that's the right word), only a diaphragm.
Nice photos! I had no idea that an obs. car dating back to the 1920s could have no rear deck(if that's the right word), only a diaphragm.
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