Trains.com

Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

856727 views
8197 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 4, 2012 2:46 AM

My ride was in the summer of 1955,   If you check the public timetables of that time, you will see the Tidewater is shown as a Portsmouth - Jacksonville train, with through cars to Atlanta and possibly Birmingham, also possibly to Miami.  In that same timetable, both the Sunland and the Palmland were shown as Washington - Jacksonville trains, with the day train continuing to Miami as well.   I know that because a few years later, I rode overnight on it between Jacksonville and Miami.   But it is easy for me to confuse the Palmland and the Sunland.   I do remember both used only lightweight equpment during periods of light travel such as most of the summer, but modernized heavyweight equpment during the winter when the lightweight equipment was required for the "Silver" trains.   I don't know how far south 17 and 18 ran in 1955.   The cars may have been switched at Noralina, at Raleigh, or at Hamlet.   I thought it was Hamlet, because I don't remember any switching of cars between Southern Pines and Portsmouth.   But again, I can assure you that the train was indeed called the Tidewater in 1955 in the public timetable.

Between Fort Bragg and my family home in New York, I split my trips between the Seabord from Southern Pines and the ACL from Fayetteville.  Coach travel was quieter and more comfortable on the Seabord, expecially if one did not have a reservation and had to use the Palmland or Sunland, but getting the Silver Meteor to stop at Southern Pines was not always possible in the winter.   The Silver Star would stop, and so would the Silver Comet.  But on the ACL I could hope to meet John Masters, an ACL dining car steward whom I had met when 15 years old, and often did so.   The West Coast Champion would stop in Fayetteville in the winter, both Champions in the summer, and so would the northbound Florida Special in the winter, extra fare and all-PUllman, however. (Rode it once.)  These were also trains I used in my acoustical consulting career 1957 - Amtrak, with projects in Miami, Manatee, Palm Beach, Lakeland, Orlando, Winter Park, Florence, Wilson, Wilmington, Columbia, Raleigh, Chapel Hill, and Richmond.  Possilbly others, and there were others reached by the Southern - New Orleans, Atlanta, Greensboro, Charlottesville, Greensburg, Black Mountain, giving me the chance to ride the Crescent and the Piedmont.   Also the Gulf Coast Limited, including a project in Talahassee.

I had no trouble going to New York and back by rail on a weekend pass!  And trains generally ran on-time in those days.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Hope, AR
  • 2,061 posts
Posted by narig01 on Sunday, June 3, 2012 11:31 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

 

 narig01:

 

A guess: Clearing is a double track hump?

Thx IGN

 

 

Right part of the yard, but not the answer.

The next thing I can think of is the location of the tower.

Rgds IGN

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 3, 2012 6:36 PM

daveklepper

YOu may be correct about my confusing the Sunland and the Palmland, but the only train to and from Portsmouth when I rode it was definitely called the Tidewater, and it was shown in the public timetable as a through train to Jacksonville, even if it was actually in the consist of another train south of Noralina.  So the cars to Atlanta were switched twice, once at Noralina and once at Hamlet, or did they get switched to the Silver Comet at Noralina?

Dave, as I stated in an earlier post, the cars to/from 17&18; (I may have missed a timetable or two), but I do not recall seeing, in the detailed timetable, any reference to these trains as the Tidewater, even though the condensed timetables showed the through schedule Jacksonville to Portsmouth as the Tidewater. In the spring of 1967, The Jacksonville-Portsmouth cars were carried in the Silver Star from Jacksonville to a switching point, and the condensed timetable showed this move as the Tidewater from Jacksonville to Portsmouth (I rode the Tidewater's combine from Jacksonville to Savannah then, and did not have to pay a reserved seat fee).

As to switching points, in December of 1965, 17 & 18 ran between Portsmouth and Raleigh, and the cars were switched there. My timetable for that age is buried in a box upstaiers; I rode the Portsmouth-Jacksonville sleeper from Raleigh to Savannah just after Christmas.

If you look at any SAL timetable published since the New York-Florida Limited was renamed the Palmland, you will see that this was a day train across the Carolinas and Georgia.

Johnny

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 3, 2012 2:38 PM

YOu may be correct about my confusing the Sunland and the Palmland, but the only train to and from Portsmouth when I rode it was definitely called the Tidewater, and it was shown in the public timetable as a through train to Jacksonville, even if it was actually in the consist of another train south of Noralina.  So the cars to Atlanta were switched twice, once at Noralina and once at Hamlet, or did they get switched to the Silver Comet at Noralina?

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:46 PM

daveklepper

I recall 17 and 18 as called the Tidewater when I rode it in 1955.   I don't recall any other Seaboard passsenger train in and out of Portsmouth at the time.  But we agree it was 17 and 18 that are the answer to the question.   I could be mistaken, and I don't have the timetables I used at the time.   The train may only have run separately north of Noralina, but the passenger timetable showed it as a through train to Jacksonville, with probably the same station times as the Palmland.   Someone should find a 1950-1956 era Seaboard pasenger timetable and answer the question.   I probably slept through the switching at Noralina in both directions!

Dave, the Palmland was a day train between somewhere south of Richmond and Jacksonville When the Sunland was running in both directions, it carried the Portsmouth-Atlanta/Jacksonville cars from/to the switching point with 17 & 18.

Johnny

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:59 PM

No to either of the responses by henry6.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:15 PM

First retarders....

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:06 AM

Natural hump?

 

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:15 AM

narig01

A guess: Clearing is a double track hump?

Thx IGN

Right part of the yard, but not the answer.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:20 AM

I recall 17 and 18 as called the Tidewater when I rode it in 1955.   I don't recall any other Seaboard passsenger train in and out of Portsmouth at the time.  But we agree it was 17 and 18 that are the answer to the question.   I could be mistaken, and I don't have the timetables I used at the time.   The train may only have run separately north of Noralina, but the passenger timetable showed it as a through train to Jacksonville, with probably the same station times as the Palmland.   Someone should find a 1950-1956 era Seaboard pasenger timetable and answer the question.   I probably slept through the switching at Noralina in both directions!

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 11:04 AM

daveklepper

The train probably was the Tidewater, which carried through cars, both coaches and sleepers from Portsmouth to Florida and to Altanta and Birmingham.   Northbound, I  road it in coach overnight from Southern Pines to Portsmouth, and returned that evening leaving Portsmouth about 4:30 PM and getting back to Southern Pines around 11pm.   I imagine that the through cars were swtiched at Hamlet to the Silver Comet to Birmingham, and to the Palmland to Jacksonville or perhaps the Silver Star to MIami and St. Pete.   It was all lightweight equipment except for head-end cars when I rode it, but I understand modernized heavyweight and American Flyers showed up during periods of heavy passenger traffic when the consists of the three Silver streamlines were expanded.  I was a 2nd Lt. at Fort Bragg responsible for a mobile radio and TV station and needed an FFC 1st Class operators lisence and needed to take the FCC exam in Norfolk.   Passed the exam.   Would have disgraced MIT if I had not.   Summer 1955.

Dave, the only Tidewater that I remember was one that ran northbound only from Jacksonville to Portsmouth; 17 & 18 did not have, so far as I know, a name. The through cars Portsmouth-Atlanta and Jacksonville were switched from/to 17 & 18 at either Norlina or Raleigh; there were variations on the switching points--in February, 1950, 17 & 18 ran only Portsmouth-Norlina; 7 & 8 (the Sunland )carried the Atlanta cars between Norlina and Hamlet; the Silver Comet carried them between Hamlet and Atlanta; the Portsmouth-Jacksonville cars were carried by the Sunland Norlina-Jacksonville. In December, 1965, 17 & 18 ran Portsmouth-Raleigh, where the cars were switched.

Johnny

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Hope, AR
  • 2,061 posts
Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 11:00 AM

A guess: Clearing is a double track hump?

Thx IGN

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:04 AM

My apologies for the delay.  This question should be relatively easy.  Clearing Yard has been in existence in its current layout for about 100 years.  What feature distinguishes it from all other hump yards in North America?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:10 AM

The train probably was the Tidewater, which carried through cars, both coaches and sleepers from Portsmouth to Florida and to Altanta and Birmingham.   Northbound, I  road it in coach overnight from Southern Pines to Portsmouth, and returned that evening leaving Portsmouth about 4:30 PM and getting back to Southern Pines around 11pm.   I imagine that the through cars were swtiched at Hamlet to the Silver Comet to Birmingham, and to the Palmland to Jacksonville or perhaps the Silver Star to MIami and St. Pete.   It was all lightweight equipment except for head-end cars when I rode it, but I understand modernized heavyweight and American Flyers showed up during periods of heavy passenger traffic when the consists of the three Silver streamlines were expanded.  I was a 2nd Lt. at Fort Bragg responsible for a mobile radio and TV station and needed an FFC 1st Class operators lisence and needed to take the FCC exam in Norfolk.   Passed the exam.   Would have disgraced MIT if I had not.   Summer 1955.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 2 posts
Posted by jasandros on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:47 PM

My Uncle served as a Porter on the Seaboard Airline and usually worked a Train between Portsmouth and Raleigh.although he later transferred to the Palmland. ....not sure which Train he rode between Portsmouth and Raleigh but it arrived southbound daily into Norlina in the early evening. My Aunt would drive my sister and I to meet him so that she could give him his lunch during the short stop at the Depot. I regularly rode the Palmland between my grandmothers and my home in New York. I have always loved that particular Train. I still love Trains and now model big G-trains in my backyard. 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:57 AM

next question please!

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:19 PM

Ok, CSS wins with 2 answers....the complete correct answers are:

 

#1.    Establishment for spiritous beverages.    BAR   Bangor & Aroostock

#2     Rembrandt , Monet and DaVinci practiced this.  ART   American Refrigerator Transit

#3    Possible New Jersey inhabitant nickname.  SAL   Seaboard Air Line

#4   Ouch! I stubbed it!  TOE    Texas Oklahoma & Eastern

#5   A somewhat embarrassing observation.     Ok...2 roads   IC UP     you know those!!!  Ick!

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:08 PM

hmmm......no other tries.   OK.....the last question is two railroads.   There's your hint   Confused

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:43 PM

Well.... so far we have 3 out of 5 correct.    If no other guesses by Sunday night, I'll pick the winner; answer the rest; and move on.

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Hope, AR
  • 2,061 posts
Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, May 9, 2012 12:44 PM

FlyingCrow

Ok, more fun with reporting marks then.   The RR or RR related name(s) please

#1.    Establishment for spiritous beverages.

#2     Rembrandt , Monet and DaVinci practiced this.

#3    Possible New Jersey inhabitant nickname.

#4   Ouch! I stubbed it!

#5   A somewhat embarrassing observation.  

Have FUN!!!  Stick out tongue

# 2  ART American Refridgerated Transit (?)

Thx IGN

 

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 9, 2012 10:08 AM

Reporting Mark answers:

1. BAR - Bangor & Aroostook

4. TOE - Texas, Oklahoma & Eastern

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 9, 2012 9:39 AM

The San Diegans operated as all-stramlined trains under AT&SF with all stainless steel lightweight equipment and Alco PA;s of F unnits.

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: US
  • 33 posts
Posted by SHKarlson on Tuesday, May 8, 2012 11:40 PM

Do the San Diegans count as streamliners?

Stephen Karlson, DeKalb, Illinois

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Tuesday, May 8, 2012 8:07 PM

Ok, more fun with reporting marks then.   The RR or RR related name(s) please

#1.    Establishment for spiritous beverages.

#2     Rembrandt , Monet and DaVinci practiced this.

#3    Possible New Jersey inhabitant nickname.

#4   Ouch! I stubbed it!

#5   A somewhat embarrassing observation.  

Have FUN!!!  Stick out tongue

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, May 6, 2012 7:16 AM

Good to hear from you Buck and you're right again with the WAG and TAG.

Mark

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Saturday, May 5, 2012 6:37 PM

Yeah, Buck apparently slipped on a bar of soap, conked his head and got amnesia...sorry to all...I forgot it was my turn!   Hmm

The answer to this question of course is the WAG and TAG

Wellsville, Addison & Galeton...The Sole Leather Line

Tennessee, Alabama & Georgia ... The Tag Route.

 

 

 

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Friday, May 4, 2012 6:15 AM

While waiting for Buck Dean's next question I'll throw out a quickie just to generate some activity on this thread. In the mid 1950's and for some years afterward there were two railroads whose reporting marks spelled words that rhymed with one another. What were these two roads and what slogan was used by each?

Mark

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:45 AM

The only other significant stretch of dual-gauge trackage was in Salida until the Monarch branch was standard-gauged.   And possibly downtown Los Angeles where the Pacific Eectric and Los Angeles Railways shared a common wire on three-rail in-street trackage.   Otherwise just yard tracks, like Port Au Basque Newfoundland, where CN had some standard gauge tracks to receive the MDT refers and CN box cars off the car ferry before transfer to Newfy narrow-gauge trucks.  Also, I am not sure when the interurbans out of Denver were abandoned, and one involved dual-gauge tracks I think both in Denver and in Golden.  I think Collorado Southern's isolated line to Leadville, connecting onlyi with the D&RGW, had already been standard gauged.

I rode Alamosa-Durango three times each way.   Also notable was the onlyi dual-gauge wye in Antonito.  Such a wye involves one switch that does not involve switching tracks, merely changing from a center rail off one side to a center rail of the other with a short stretch of four rails, each center rail ending in a regulr switch point.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:11 AM

FlyingCrow

Alamosa - Antonito 

D&RGW

Tongue Tied

Right on Buck. The next question is yours.

Mark

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, April 23, 2012 7:30 PM

Alamosa - Antonito 

D&RGW

Tongue Tied

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter