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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Saturday, January 28, 2012 7:12 PM

If it's ethical to go back to the red psgr cars query, may considering the Interurban Electric Ry (SP's East Bay transbay-ferry feeder) and , too, a railroad whose cars modelers buy Floquil "Tuscan Red" for psgr cars.

And, 20 years ago the White Pass and Yukon's fleet ,  looked like about 30 or more cars, were a very red maroon. The Skagway area was magic in 1991.

*** my finger and I bleed blood type SP. The latest question; no idea except to some way-back memory says PC&F built the Coast Daylight consists. But I recall a combine was the first car. 

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, January 28, 2012 1:06 PM

Al,  it's always good to see a classic thread starter.

http://content.lib.utah.edu/u?/USHS_Class,13109   Vista-Dome monument

http://content.lib.utah.edu/u?/USHS_Class,13110   Plaque

http://content.lib.utah.edu/u?/USHS_Class,13111  Cyrus R. Osborn (1897-1968) 

Mike

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Posted by passengerfan on Saturday, January 28, 2012 10:02 AM

Just got over some health problems and maybe will have more time for this forum once again even though tax season is here.

My question is Amtrak purchased six Pacific Car & Foundry Baggage cars from SP and numbered them second 1000 - 1006. They were on the property at the same time as the former CB&Q 1000 - 1006 were on the property. My question is what year were they purchased ?

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, January 28, 2012 7:10 AM

passengerfan

The first railroad to own a Vista dome car was the CB&Q rebuilt from a flat top coach in 1945 at the CB&Q Aurora shops. The car was originally named Silver Alchemy and became the SILVER DOME. A second viista dome was rebuilt in 1947 from a flat top coach by the same shop from a car named Silver castle in this case they did not change the name. Between the first and only two Vista domes built in the CB&Q Aurora shops Budd delivered ten to the CB&Q to equip the post war Twin Zephyrs that train becoming the first advertized as the Vista-Dome Twin Zephyrs.

You've nailed it Passengerfan. Haven't heard from you in a while and since tax time is uon us again I hope you're not too busy yet to ask the next question.

Cyrus Osborn of GM's EMD is generally credited for the vista-dome concept which he got the idea for while riding through the Rockies in the cab of an EMD locomotive. He gave his sketches of such a car to the Burlington and they picked up the ball and ran with it.

Mark

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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, January 27, 2012 6:44 PM

The first railroad to own a Vista dome car was the CB&Q rebuilt from a flat top coach in 1945 at the CB&Q Aurora shops. The car was originally named Silver Alchemy and became the SILVER DOME. A second viista dome was rebuilt in 1947 from a flat top coach by the same shop from a car named Silver castle in this case they did not change the name. Between the first and only two Vista domes built in the CB&Q Aurora shops Budd delivered ten to the CB&Q to equip the post war Twin Zephyrs that train becoming the first advertized as the Vista-Dome Twin Zephyrs.

CB&Q had several caboose type cars in the 1920s with twin cupolas that were used for passengers as they traveled through the Canadian Rockies.  

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, January 23, 2012 1:20 PM

I've some questions and comments concerning Dave's red cars question before posting the next one.

1. Having ridden and seen their trains many times, I feel foolish for overlookiing the GM&O.

2. It's been 45 years since I rode the NY subways but I thought the 8th Ave. line had red cars and was an IND line. Am I mistaken about this?

3. I don't know if the Chicago-Detroit PRR/WAB Red Bird ran during the time period of Dave's question. In any event weren't the WAB cars assigned to this train painted red or is my memorf  faulty about this too?

On to a new question. The first vista-dome car was introduced in what year and by what railroad? Who was the builder of this car and what inspired its construction?

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 23, 2012 3:00 AM

Forgot to mention, the INS R-1 - R-7 (1931-1941) cars were never really black.  They were a very dark green ,seldom washed, and looked and photographed black.  Then, many were repained into the dark brown of BMT cars during the time when they were assigned to Coney lsland or Broaedway Eat New York.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 22, 2012 10:24 AM

First, KCSFan is clearly the winner with nine firsts according to my count.

Yes there were "B-Division" red cars, not just IRT.   These were some of the arch-roof SMEEE cars that came aftern the monitor roof R-10's, but they ran mostly on the BMT lines when they were painted a dark red, not the bright red of the IRT xcars.   Anyway, I counted the New York system as one.

 

Missing so far are the obvious Long Island Rail Road and the Gulf, Mobile, and Ohio.

 

Tek ti away KCS

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:29 AM

What red cars of the IND?

 

The only red cars I remember (and there were a fair number of them!) were on the IRT lines (1-2-3 and 4-5-6 in Manhattan) and on the 7 line crosstown. 

 

The riveted-body R cars on the IND stayed black to the end (roughly around 1975, before the 'red' era); at least, I never saw one in normal passenger service that wasn't black.  Can't think of anything else on IND that would have been red... what am I missing?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 22, 2012 5:25 AM

OK. Yes, and Philadlephia and Western before it was merged into Red Arrow. and riding the Lehigh Valley's red cars to Willksbarre one could ride the Laural Line, Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley to Scranton.  Chicago Surface Lines would count also.   And there are more.   But now I should talley up who got the most first and get back to you.

 

LVT used red on all local Allentown cars and the Easton Limited lightweights, and a few remaining heavyweights on the Liberty Bell route.    The Liberty Bell lightweights and most heavyweights were cream with red trim.

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, January 21, 2012 6:34 AM

daveklepper

How about Red Arrow's two connections, one later merged into its system, and one connection leading to a steam road connection with red cars to another electric line with red cars, part of its RofW used today with a red electric car.

After that someone or I will total up the score.

I believe the Lehigh Valley Transit is one of those you are still looking for.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, January 20, 2012 4:52 AM

How about Red Arrow's two connections, one later merged into its system, and one connection leading to a steam road connection with red cars to another electric line with red cars, part of its RofW used today with a red electric car.

After that someone or I will total up the score.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:11 AM

KCSfan is thinking of North Shore's Silverliners, about one-third of North Shore's fleet was in these colors:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1366894

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1366893 

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:24 AM

daveklepper

  And some of the others not yet mentioned were partically or wholly electric.   including the Red Devils.

I had completely forgotten about the C&LE. The North Shore (CNS&M) had a number of cars with  red upper and silver lower carbodies. Many street railways like the Chicago Surface Lines had red streetcars. There were so many of these that I doubt we should begin to try to name them all.

Mark 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:03 AM

The New York Red Birds and R16's and others, you bet!   Still more to come.   Yes, Maine Central did have some of its own red passenger cars.   And some of the others not yet mentioned were partically or wholly electric.   including the Red Devils.

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 9:36 AM

I don't know if the Maine Central had any red cars of its own but those of the B&M often ran in MEC trains. I believe the Wabash had some red cars which ran in Chicago - Detroit trains.

Would the red cars of the New York City IND subway line count?

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:32 AM

There are a lot more.   B&M should hint at another.   Yes, Red Arrow does dount, and should hint at two others, pardon me, three others (but one not a direct connection, although the connection betwen them was mentioned already as having red coaches and also had red diesels).   The SP Daylihgts don't count, because red was  not in any way the primary color, ditto just red letterboards on stainless equipment.   But Pacific Electric, sure.

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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 3:51 PM

I will admit to not having a good knowledge of Rock Islands passenger cars. When I posted this morn I was looking at a picture of a Rock Island E 6 on the cover of Classic Trains.

   Of course I could have been blinded by the "Rockets Red Glare".

Thx IGN

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Posted by Dragoman on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:43 PM

Does the "vermlion" red of the Golden State cars count as a Rock Island red?

Also, does the red in Southern Pacific's red-orange-black "Daylight" color scheme count?

I presume that the red letterboards on many stainless cars does not constitute a "substantial amount".

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:23 AM

Rock Island did have some red bi-levels in suburban service prior to the RTA takeover.  Another road to add to the list is Chicago Aurora & Elgin.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:02 AM

KCSfan

I don't recall the Rock Island having red passenger cars. The ones I remember seeing were the stainless steel streamlined ones and Pullman green heavyweights.

I"ll add the following additional roads: Canadian Pacific - Soo - Pacific Electric and Texas Electric (red and cream).

Mark

Oops, right after posting the above I realized that I had forgotten to include the Boston & Maine.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:51 AM

I don't recall the Rock Island having red passenger cars. The ones I remember seeing were the stainless steel streamlined ones and Pullman green heavyweights.

I"ll add the following additional roads: Canadian Pacific - Soo - Pacific Electric and Texas Electric (red and cream).

Mark

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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:01 AM

Ok I will start with the easy and obvious:  Norfolk & Western, Lehigh Valley,Rock Island, Western Maryland(?). 

      On the minor side (don't know if it counts) Philadelphia's "Red Arrow"

   I was going to thru in the Disneyland RR, for laughs. That opened after 1950 after 1950.

Thx Ign

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 4:49 AM

Quick easy one:   Era WWII-1950:   Name all North American railroads with substantial amounts of RED passenger equipment.    Lilke the PRR (Pennsylvania)

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, January 16, 2012 2:34 PM

daveklepper

My guess would be the Havana Special.

It was the Havana Special.  In the last summer of operations before the Labor Day hurricane hit, it was the only Miami-Key West train, operating as an accommodation run between those two points.  North of Miami, the train still operated on a "limited" schedule to/from New York  Originally, the Havana Special left Miami about 2 in the morning to get to Key West in time for the morning boat connection to Havana.  But when it became the only Miami-Key West train, its schedule was modified to leave Miami around 7am, with a late morning arrival in Key West.  The northbound train left Key West late in the afternoon for an approximately 9 p.m. arrival in Miami, then operating overnight to Jacksonville.

Dave, you have the next question.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 15, 2012 5:06 AM

My guess would be the Havana Special.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, January 14, 2012 8:15 AM

What was the name of the last passenger train that operated out of Key West before the FEC Key West extension was shut down and eventually abandoned because of the 1935 Labor Day hurricane?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 9, 2012 4:36 AM

Next question anyone?

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, January 8, 2012 10:35 AM

ZephyrOverland


Mark, we await your question.

Both Dave and I have asked so many questions lately so I'll defer to someoone else who hasn't had as many opportunities. Anyone who has a question ready jump in and post it.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, January 8, 2012 9:34 AM

ZephyrOverland


Mark, we await your question.

Both Dave and I have asked so many questions lately so I'll defer to someoone else who hasn't had as many opportunities. Anyone who has a question ready jump in and post it.

Mark

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