What comes to mind first is Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania:
There was an old B&O passenger station right downtown, and while convenient for passengers it was kind of a pain for the RR to use operationally because the main-line service like the Capitol Limited had to "ooch" down quite a steep grade to get downtown. There may have been grade crossings involved, too. The city fathers did not care for that. That station was torn down sometime in the late fifties/early sixties (within the scope of this Quiz) for an expressway. The B&O Mon (Monongahela) Valley commuter service had a small station downtown but it was less of a hindrance. However, it was a small station and a terminal and unsuited for thru traffic by the B&O long distance trains.
PRR had two stations, one called, IIRC, "Pennsylvania Station" and the other on (again IIRC) Federal Street. Pretty sure that the B&O's l-d trains wound up using one or both of them, and whatever Amtrak service remains probably uses the Penna. Station but am not sure (at any rate that would be 1971-now to out of the scope of this Quiz). BTW Mon Valley service was interrupted at least once that I know of in the Eighties but I think it resumed with the same modest platforms downtown. Of course, that, too, is too modern for this Quiz.
I may have thinking of the NP train that did not serve Superior when I thought the NP entered the Twin Ports in the reverse direction from that of the GN and Soo.
Here is the question: what in-town station caused a problem in its city because af the way it was reached from the main line, and what two stations replaced it? What are the advantages of the replacement staions?
Johnny
Deggesty gets the next question.
St Paul: all roads used SPUD
Minneapolis: GN and NP used GN station, Soo used Milwaukee Road's
Duluth and Superior: GN and NP used Union, Soo used its own stations. NP and Soo each had a station at West Duluth.
Using the May 1957 Official Guide:
NP ran Minn - St P - Superior - Duluth (one of NP's train pairs skipped Superior "via Short Line")
GN ran St P - Minn - Superior - Duluth
Soo ran Minn - St P - Superior - Duluth
If you are looking for a port "twin city" to Duluth, MI it is probably Superior, Wisconsin??
The Soo is the third road; the cites are the Twin Cites and the Twin Ports (Minneapolis, St. Paul, Duluth, and (a massive Senior Moment).. I am not home, or I would be able to find the name of the other Twin Port.
I have a memory that the NP entered the Twin Ports in reverse direction from that of the GN, so its order would end with DC.
Four cities, three railroads, five trains, six stations. With the cities at one end A and B, and the other C and D, one of the railroads ran ABCD, one BACD (one train only ran BAD), the third BACD, but with different stations at B, C and D. Between C and D, two of the three carriers stopped at intermediate stations (West D) of their own. Tickets reading on any of the three carriers were honored on the other two. Where are we?
NP & GN are two of the three RRs, Hint: cities A&B and C&DF are paired.
What was the question? I seemed to have missed something.
Thx IGN
Still two of three RRs. Think city pairs.
umm..... Seattle, Tacoma, Portland and Spokane.
RRs GN, NP, and SP&S
Think two city sets closer together. Two of three RRs are right...
A Tacoma, B Seattle, C Spokane, D St. Paul? Milwaukee, NP, and GN?
rcdrye I forgot about using Worcester as an alternate transfer point. I'm sure the accounting department had nightmares about things like this. Four cities, three railroads, five trains, six stations. With the cities at one end A and B, and the other C and D, one of the railroads ran ABCD, one BACD (one train only ran BAD), the third BACD, but with different stations at B, C and D. Between C and D, two of the three carriers stopped at intermediate stations (West D) of their own. Tickets reading on any of the three carriers were honored on the other two. Where are we?
I forgot about using Worcester as an alternate transfer point. I'm sure the accounting department had nightmares about things like this.
Yes, where are we?
If nobody comes up with better answers, inlcuding doing the math, I will have to contact you as a winner. However, I do not believe the Plainfield to New Haven passenger service was operating in 1948. It was operating, if my geography is correct, in 1950, as Budd cars (not available in 1948) were introduced between Worcester and New London, which lacked passenger service in 1948. The first RDC in regular service ran on the B&A in the autumn 1949, and were introduced on the NYNH&H early in 1950, with Worcester - New London being one of the first services.
Yes, NYNH&H tickets were honored on the B&A between Springfield and Boston, and later between Worcester and Boston. They were not honored between Pittsfield and Boston. Youcould also buy a B&A-NYNH&H Boston - New York ticket at the old B&A Trinity Place station and walk half a block to Back Bay and use it in on the NYNH&H train! Useful, if the lines were long at the Back Bay ticket windows.
(Until about 1958, B&A trains did not use Back Bay Station, even though that station was constructed with a platform for their track(s). Trinity Place was the B&A departure station and Huntington Avenue the inbound station, if my memory is correct. I think it was either construction of the Mass Turnpike or of the Proudential Center and Heines Hall that force the change.)
This one really needs to be broken down into pieces. Let's see...
First leg: Boston to Putnam or Providence
Putnam to Plainfield or Willimantic
Providence to Plainfield or New London via shore line
Plainfield to New London or Willimantic
New London to New Haven
Willimantic to New Haven or Hartford
Hartford to New Haven or Waterbury
Waterbury to Norwalk via Bridgeport or Danbury
New Haven to Bridgeport
Bridgeport to New Rochelle
New Rochelle to New York GCT or Penn
My available sources suggest but don't confirm that a routing via B&A/NH through Springfield can be added to the several Boston-Hartford routes. If that's the case there are several options out of Springfield. I don't have time on my break to work out the count but it's pretty large number.
This is analogous to my 73 ways to get a subway train from Coney Island to Jamaica without reversing direction.
And there is a trick to this question. But you should know it. Maybe two tricks.
I am holding a one-way regular full-fare NYNH&H New York to Boston coach ticket in the year 1948. How many different possible routes can I used to get from New York to Boston, changing trains when necessary, but without any problem in the ticket being honored. Describe the routes.
DaveKlepper gets the nod for the correct answer (The train waiting for itself). MTA discontinued service after losing the Lexington Branch train at the end of the line in the 1978 blizzard, and eventually removed the tracks. By the end of service the T was using leased B&M GP7s and 9s with the RDCs as cab cars (the engines ran to generate hot water and lights, but not for tractive power.)
I thought I saw this answered.v No?
STILL, THE LIST CAN ALWAYS BE USEFUL. I VOTE FOR YOUR GOING AHEAD!
Yes, obviously, if they were late, and the normal dirctional hierarchy was observed, they could not proceed because they would then have to wait at Arlington or at the junction with the main line for the nonexistant train running on the correct timetable. So that is the reason for the reversal of the direciotnal hierarchy, which solved the problem, without the dispatcher having to be bothered to write exception orders any time the train was late. Which probably was pretty often in the typical Boston winter weather.
Does the Lexington Brabch have "T" commuter service now?
Do I get to write the next question?
By the 1950's the Lexington branch came off the Fitchburg main at Clematis Brook in Cambridge. There was a passing siding in Arlington (9 cars!) and in Lexington. The branch effectively ended at Bedford and was later truncated to Lexington.
The morning outbound train had an "X" indicating it didn't carry passengers, and was sceduled to arrive 15 minutes before the departure of the inbound train. The Afternoon inbound train also showed an "X" and was also scheduled to depart Bedfrod 15 minutes after the arrival of the outbound train.
By this time B&M was using RDC equipment on the branch, which lasted until the 1978 blizzard.
Both "Engine" crew and train crew were based out of Boston.
Think about what happened if the outbound trains were late.
We are still trying to answer the Santa Fe Streamliner Question?
If no one else jumps in I will print the list this evening.
Al - in - Stockton
At the time that you are writing about, did the Lexington Branch come off the Fitchberg Main Line northwest of Porter Square Cambridge,with a stop at Arlingnton, or did it come off at Concord and go north? Before abandonments, the Lesington branch went further, and divided with one loop returning to the Fitchberg Maine Line at Concord, and another going north and joining the New Hampshir Line at North Billerica. I would imagine that at one time passenger and freight service were both operated in somewhat a loop arrangement, like the B&A Riverside Line was before it became MTA light rail, and the LIRR Far Rockaway service before the storm and the rebuilding of the trestle for the subway system..
If the light was inrtact trough Arlington, then I don'tthink a reverse move would have been needed. But if the service was provided via Concord, possiblyi the RDC equipment thqt provided service for a number of years at the end, did need to reverse to leave the main line. And the historical direciton of runnig was preserved, what was toward Boston was, because of abandonments, away from Boston.
You're on the right track. As a note, Lexington was the only open train order office on the branch. Think what equipment the B&M introduced on their commuter trains in thi period.
The only way to give the proper and whole answer is to be able to read the timetable schedules and special notes. But the DL&W had similar notes on the Sussex and P&D branches. In some cases it was to allow the deadhead equipment to arrive ahead of an opposing scheduled train or to assure the revnue train gets to its the destination before a non revenue train took the main. But most likely it was to indicate the deadhead equipment was for the specific train it became superior to and was thus an equipment assignment note explaining how and why the moves were planned and to be executed. Definitely briefer and more concise than my explanation.
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The only way to give the proper and whole answer is to be able to read the timetable schedules and special notes. But the DL&W had similar notes on the Sussex and P&D branches. In some cases it was to allow the deadhead equipment to arrive ahead of an opposing scheduled train or to assure the revnue train gets to its the destination before a non revenue train took the main. But most likely it was to indicate the deadhead equipment was for the specific train it became superior to and was thus an equipment assignment note explaining how and why the moves were planned and to be executed.
I assume that the rule only applied to the branch to Lexington and not to the trackage shared with other routes. I think Henry6 has the right answer.The outbound train had to arrive at Lexington before the inbound train could operate.If memory is correct, there was very little freight service on the branch and a peddler ran maybe once or twice a week at night,gain,outbound from Sommerville yard and back before the morning passenger train equipment move left. However, if it did get delayed, it would have to take a siding to keep the passenger train on time. But this would nornally be required by superiorityi of class and not direcition..
1000 pardons to the group. I totally slept through the fact I answered the Mexico car question. Sorry
Back then the schedule gave a train authority to occupy the stated track at the stated time. I can't see the timetable schedule you are referring to but I would guess that because the morning eastbound schedule could not be run until the arrival of the equipment and the same in the evening. Therefore, train #2 couldn't leave it's terminal until #1 arrived. And number 3 couldn't move west until #2 arrived. What it really is saying is that the equipment for train 2 is train one and the equipment for train 3 is train two. But it is said in the language of the rules.
How about this? On the Boston and Maine inthe 1950s and 1960s, there were two passenger round trips from Boston to Lexington and Bedford NH, deadhead out in the morning and back in the evening. In the employee timetable, there was a footnote reversing the normal superiority of trains here (Inbound trains to Boston were normally superior by direction). Why was that?
rcdrye So where do we go with no new question?
So where do we go with no new question?
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