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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:46 AM

Your question, CSSHegewisch !

The poles, like the ones PE used, were for Nachod signals, which counted "poles in" and "poles out" to allow use of single track segments.  Lines like Illinois Terminal didin't like them because they didn't work well with dual poles.  Some street systems that used them also operated MU, and used jumpers instead of the pole on the second car.  SN used pans on freight engines which didn't work with the contacts.

The Nachod actuator was different from the electric switch selector, which activated power switches based on whether the passing car was drawing power or not. Key system had special overhead setups where the transbay services shared track with streetcars so that the transbay cars' pans wouldn't  contact  the switch selectors.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:20 AM

The road in question is at the other end of the WP, and was the Bamberger.  Bamberger RS1 570 was re-powered with a 567 engine while still owned by Bamberger.  It later became UP 1270 when Bamberger was absorbed by UP.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:27 AM

Well, this railroad actually interchanged with WP, but wasn't owned by it like SN.  All of SN's signal installations, both on WP shared track and SN-only track, used 25 hz vane relays in otherwise normal track circuit signalling (WP And SN shared a fair amount of track in the Marysville/Yuba City area.) PE had some Baldwin switchers, and even a couple of borrowed SP steam engines that had poles for signal contactors.  IT was mostly manual block, and didn't use trolley contactors.  IT's diesels that had poles were dual power.

This engine was allocated by the WPB in 1943 for troop train movements, and had a train-heating boiler.

Like the WP, and the SN (and for that matter the PE) this road eventually ended up as prt of the UP.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 27, 2012 7:49 AM

Western Pacific, for use on trackage shared by the Sacrmento Northen and/or Central California trackage, both owned by WP and  both employing trolley contactor signals on certain trackage (Nachod signals).

 

Others would be the Pacific Electric or the Illinois Terminal, but I think WP is correct.   The latter two also had diesels equipped with trolley poles, for the same reason, but I don't think they had an Alco reengined by EMD.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:41 AM

This company's Alco RS1, later re-engined by EMD, was originally equipped with trolley poles.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:00 PM

Rob WINS!      Mr. Winters was very kind to me years ago and presented me with a copy of every FS&W photo he had.     

Go , Rob!!  Cool

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:43 AM

Given the Charles Winters clue I'm certain Rob is correct in naming the Ft. Smith & Western.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:29 PM

Is it the long gone Fort Smith and Western? Once you get much to the west of it there's not much along the 35th parallel that hasn't already been dismissed as the answer.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 6:58 PM

I'll throw a hint.     Let us say that the late Charles Winters was an expert on this road.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:23 AM

The only other contender I can think of is the Quanah Acme & Pacific.

Mark

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, September 24, 2012 7:56 PM

I'll just jump in here and say...no correct answer on the 35th Parallel question yet.    ZO sent me a personal message and said "Kansas Pacific".    Nope.  


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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, September 24, 2012 9:53 AM

daveklepper

The question regarding trains' frequencies of the three Chicago - Florida streamliners is answered by the relative size of the lightweight passenger equipment pool of the participating railroads.

That may be an issue but for the 1951 winter season, all three trains ran on a 2 out of 3 day schedule.  It was only during the 1952 and 1953 winter seasons that the Dixie Flagler kept its 1 out of 3 day schedule run and the South Wind and City of Miami went on a 2 out of 3 day schedule.  Also as a sidenote, the C&EI and L&N obtained a group of lightweight sleepers in 1954 but kept the Dixie Flagler on a year round 1 out of 3 day schedule. 

Another explanation could be economics.  Chicago-Florida seasonal train service ended in 1949, causing the City of Miami/Dixie Flagler/South Wind to receive sleepers (initially heavyweight ones) to make up some of the loss of the seasonal trains.  Also, overall passenger loadings were dropping from the post WWII highs.  In 1951 the railroads may have predicted the need for additional train service for the winter season, but not enough to require an additional daily train. 

Also, I believe that the C&EI was trying to keep a tight rein on costs.  While the other railroads had other lines to make money off of,  the C&EI basically had one line - its Chicago-Evansville route, to derive the majority of its passenger revenues.  They already pulled out of the Chicago-St. Louis market in 1949.  They may have gotten financially burnt from running the Flagler 2 out of 3 days in 1951.  So they may have felt that they were better off keeping the Flagler on the same schedule structure year round.   Also, remember that the C&EI and the Dixie Route was the earliest line to reduce involvement in and eventually withdraw from the Chicago-Florida market by dropping the Dixieland (the Dixie Flagler's successor) in 1957.   

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, September 24, 2012 9:26 AM

Rob's mention of the TC brought to mind another abandoned east-west line that closely followed the 35th parallel, namely the Nashville - Memphis line of the NC&StL.

Mark.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, September 24, 2012 6:51 AM

The Tennesee Central was supposed to go Nashville to Knoxville, even if it never quite got there...

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 24, 2012 4:54 AM

The question regarding trains' frequencies of the three Chicago - Florida streamliners is answered by the relative size of the lightweight passenger equipment pool of the participating railroads.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, September 24, 2012 4:48 AM

Since the latitude of both Memphis and Oklahoma City is 35 deg. N I'll guess the Choctaw Route of the Rock Island.

Mark

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:20 PM

Ok,   Long gone and mostly forgotten, this road was once considered an integral part of what could be described as the "35th Parallel Project".

Wink


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Posted by FlyingCrow on Sunday, September 23, 2012 6:10 PM

Hey, Gang.    Been upgrading the system.    Got it all in a working great now, so stand by

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, September 21, 2012 5:42 PM
I wonder why the Dixe Flagler ran only one day out of three when both the South Wind and City of Miami were being operated two days out of three (the SW and the DF were operated on the same schedule south of Jacksonville). Was it not as popular as the South Wind or City of Miami?

Incidentally, when the three were inaugurated, they were given only about two hours to be turned in Miami. Just think of the pressure to get them turned so they could leave for Chicago on time. They were in Chicago overnight, but even then there was not much time for servicing.

Buck, what do you have to cause us to scratch our heads/

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:45 PM

FlyingCrow

Gulf Stream and Royal Poinciana

Since I helped Larry Goolsby with both his passenger books, I feel like I'm cheating a bit.    Are these what you are seeking?

Buck

The Gulf Stream was the train I was looking for.  This train and the Royal Poinciana were basically catchall trains for the FEC running in different schedules and time frames since the 1920's, handling through cars (and sometimes through trains) from the north and northwest.  The Gulf Stream operated southbound only in the summer of 1951 and both directions in the summers of 1952 and 1953 in every-third-day incarnations to help maintain the timeslot being held down by the South Wind/Dixie Flagler.

Buck, the next question is yours.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:44 PM

Gulf Stream and Royal Poinciana

Since I helped Larry Goolsby with both his passenger books, I feel like I'm cheating a bit.    Are these what you are seeking?

Buck


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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:06 AM

ZephyrOverland

rcdrye

Then I would guess they would recycle the name of one of the secondary trains that had been discontinued.  The only one that comes to mind is the "Sunchaser".

I wouldn't necessarily consider the Sunchaser a secondary train per. se., but the name I'm looking for was unique to the FEC.

Since the Sunchaser was an all-Pullman train, I also would not consider it to have been a secondary train. It also ran every third day, in conjunction with the PRR-L&N-ACL and C&EI-L&N-NC&StL-ACL all-Pullman trains.

Oh, I wish I were at home! (I expect to get back there in nne days) then I could probably find the name of the train.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:50 AM

daveklepper

East Coast Speical?

Nope....The East Coast Special existed in 1963, near the end of through passenger service on the FEC.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:12 AM

East Coast Speical?

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:16 PM

rcdrye

Then I would guess they would recycle the name of one of the secondary trains that had been discontinued.  The only one that comes to mind is the "Sunchaser".

I wouldn't necessarily consider the Sunchaser a secondary train per. se., but the name I'm looking for was unique to the FEC.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 9:15 PM

Then I would guess they would recycle the name of one of the secondary trains that had been discontinued.  The only one that comes to mind is the "Sunchaser".

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:25 PM

rcdrye

Did FEC recycle the "Henry M. Flagler"?

Nope....

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:05 PM

Did FEC recycle the "Henry M. Flagler"?

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:36 AM

FlyingCrow

ZO...you are on a roll.    Katy Flyer is correct.      Of course I wasn't there for the first one into Union Station, but I was there for the LAST one.    

Take it away!!!

When the City of Miami, Dixie Flagler and South Wind were established, their schedules allowed a daily Jacksonville-Miami service on the same timeslot on the FEC.  However, by 1950, the City of Miami started operating on a slightly different schedule, resulting in the Dixie Flagler/South Wind timeslot having a missing train every third day.  The complexity of running these trains increased in the winter seasons of 1952 and 1953 when the South Wind and City of Miami started running every 2 out of 3 days, with the Dixie Flagler keeping its every-third day schedule.  But, in the summer months of those years, all three trains were on an every third day schedule, with the City of Miami having its own timeslot.  To maintain schedule consistency, the FEC operated an every-third-day Jacksonville-Miami train running on the Dixie Flagler/South Wind schedule.  What was that FEC train?

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Friday, September 14, 2012 8:19 PM

ZO...you are on a roll.    Katy Flyer is correct.      Of course I wasn't there for the first one into Union Station, but I was there for the LAST one.    

Take it away!!!

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL

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