FlyingCrow Woo...ok then. This train is generally recognized as the FIRST to have arrived at newly opened Kansas City Union Station on November 1, 1914. Just the name will do.
Woo...ok then.
This train is generally recognized as the FIRST to have arrived at newly opened Kansas City Union Station on November 1, 1914. Just the name will do.
The Katy Flyer?
Even tho the Deluxe was Extra Fine Extra Fast and Extra Fare
Nope
De Lux? (AT&SF)
daveklepper Mark, you are very fair. But when did the MNRR convert to standard gauge?
Mark, you are very fair. But when did the MNRR convert to standard gauge?
Dave, thank you for your kind words. According to my source it was standard gauged in 1903.
Mark
The answer is: Mexican National Railroad between Mexico City and Nuevo Laredo a distance of 803 miles. The Mexican National later became a part of the NdeM, then the TFM and today is the mainline of the KCSdeM.
And the winner by a nose is: Flying Crow whose 550 mile Fremont Elkorn and Missouri Valley line between Omaha and Rapid City just barely edged out rcdrye's 540 mile Tyler-Wyatt, MO line of the Texas and St. Louis.
The next question is yours Buck.
This line was not in the US and that's the last hint I will give. If no one gets it by tonight I'll post the answer then.
CSSHEGEWISCH I will guess that the line in question is the Clover Leaf (Toledo, St. Louis & Kansas City), between Toledo and East St. Louis. The line was absorbed by NKP and parts of it are operated by NS and various short lines.
I will guess that the line in question is the Clover Leaf (Toledo, St. Louis & Kansas City), between Toledo and East St. Louis. The line was absorbed by NKP and parts of it are operated by NS and various short lines.
Paul, my OG's show the NKP mileage between Toledo and E. StL to be just a bit over 450 miles which, as you'll see from the following hint, is considerably shorter than the line I am looking for.
The line in question was (and is today) 800+ miles in length.
KCSfan rcdrye This may be a little too far south... The International Railways of Central America totalled over 700 miles in Guatemala and El Salvador. Not that one - the road I'm looking for was even longer. Is Central America technically a part of North America? I honestly don't know. Mark
rcdrye This may be a little too far south... The International Railways of Central America totalled over 700 miles in Guatemala and El Salvador.
This may be a little too far south... The International Railways of Central America totalled over 700 miles in Guatemala and El Salvador.
Not that one - the road I'm looking for was even longer. Is Central America technically a part of North America? I honestly don't know.
Johnny
Here's a hint for you all to ponder over. The line was built to 3' gauge in the 1880's and was converted to standard gauge in the early 1900's. Now it is the main line of a major modern time railroad.
FlyingCrow Femont, Elkhorn & Missouri Valley? Became part of the Chicago & North Western from Omaha to Rapid City.
Femont, Elkhorn & Missouri Valley? Became part of the Chicago & North Western from Omaha to Rapid City.
Buck, if I've added and subtracted CNW timetable mileages correctly the rail distance between Omaha and Rapid City is right at 550 miles. The line I'm looking for was considerably longer.
Not the T&StL; The NG line I'm looking for was quite a bit longer than 550 miles.
How about the Texas and St. Louis, a predecessor of the Cotton Belt? Should be around 550 miles from Tyler TX to the ferry landing opposite Cairo IL.
daveklepper Denver to Grand Junction via Pueblo and Marshall Pass. The line from Grand Junction to to Salt Lake City was owned by the Rio Grand Westerm and the line from Denver to Grand Junction was owned by the Denver and Rio Grande. A third rail was laid for standard gauge from Grand Junction to Salt Lake City for the Colorado Midland, which was part owner fo the Rio Grande Western. After WWI. the CM quite, the narrow gauge into Grand Junction was gone, and the Tennessee Pass standard gauge line from Pueblo and Denver had replaced the Marshall Pass narrow gauge line as the main line with only standard gauge to Salt Lake City and the two railroads merged into the D&RGW. I am still asking what is the status of the D&RGW standard gauge Ridgeway-Grand Juncicton line?
Denver to Grand Junction via Pueblo and Marshall Pass. The line from Grand Junction to to Salt Lake City was owned by the Rio Grand Westerm and the line from Denver to Grand Junction was owned by the Denver and Rio Grande. A third rail was laid for standard gauge from Grand Junction to Salt Lake City for the Colorado Midland, which was part owner fo the Rio Grande Western. After WWI. the CM quite, the narrow gauge into Grand Junction was gone, and the Tennessee Pass standard gauge line from Pueblo and Denver had replaced the Marshall Pass narrow gauge line as the main line with only standard gauge to Salt Lake City and the two railroads merged into the D&RGW.
I am still asking what is the status of the D&RGW standard gauge Ridgeway-Grand Juncicton line?
Dave, I'll answer your question about the Ridgway - Grand Jct. line first. The last train into Ridgway ran in 1976 and the following year the rails were taken up from Montrose south to Ridgway. The Union Pacific still operates that portion of the line between Grand Jct. and Montrose.
The distance between Denver - Grand Jct.on the narrow gauge line via Marshall Pass was 424 miles. The line I am looking for in my question was considerably longer.
What was the longest continuous 3' gauge line in North America under the ownership of one railroad? Name its end points and the railroad.
Dave, I was in a hurry when I responded to your post, and I was thinking of Pensacola and not New Orleans, which you named. For some reason, perhaps because New Orleans is so far up the Mississippi from the Gulf, I had not thought of it as a Gulf Coast port even though it is necessary for sea-going vessels to use the Gulf when using the New Orleans port.
The SAL/SCL-L&N operated the Gulf Wind in overnight service between Jacksonville and New Orleans and, as you said, it was carried in mainline trains between Flomaton and New Orleans; through most of the fifties, it was the Pan American westbound and the Piedmont Limited eastbound. After these two trains were combined (southbound only; northbound it was the Crescent that was combined with the Pan) south of Montgomery, you could say either of the two carried the Jacksonville cars from Flomaton. I hope I am not confusing in my description of the operation of these cars.
daveklepper Just after I posted the B&O anwer, I remembered the overnight NY-Penn - Norfolk car, whcih I rode. I think though it went south on what was the Havana Special and became the Gulf Coast Special and got switched to the Pockey at St. Petersburg. I was PRR - RF&P - ACL -N&W when I rode it. I dont't know about which trains it took northbound, since I only rode it southbound. I could not get back to the web until now. And I also rode the specific question's sleeping car overnight from Altanta to New Orleans on the Piedmont LImited, and this was a car added to the train in Atlanta and opened for early occupancy. It left on the West Point route, and I wish to defer on the correct names of the two railroads (Atlanta and West Point, and Atlanta and Western Alabama?), and then from Montgomery to New Orleans it was on the Lousville and Nashville. Of course, the Piedmont was primarily a Southern Railroad train, following the same route as the Cresent. But the Cresent was all-Pulllman, at least for a while, while the Piedmont was slower and carried coaches. If I remember, it was a day train to Washington - Atlanta, and overnight to New Orleans. The through sleeper from New York was carried on the Edison to Washington, if I remember correctly, and rode it once NY to Greensburg, NC.. While on the L&N, it picked up the equpiment from the Gulf Coast LImited at Flomaton and ran to New Orleans as a combined train. I also rode the Gulf Coast Limited, from Jacksonvile and from Tallahassee to NO. So there were really three juction points, West Point, Montgomery, and Flomaton. The two West POint routes always pooled power, and often the L&N power did run through to Atlanta. There may have even been cases where West Point route and L&N ran multiple. But Southern power on the Piedmont did not run through to New Orleans. I never rode the Crescent all the way to New Orleans before Amtrack and the reroute via Birmingham as an all-Southern train. The Atlanta - New Orleans car I rode was an L&N sleeper. The NY - Norfolk was N&W, but I understand PRR cars predominated. But KCfan has the answer that you are looking for, I suspect, and I await his question.
Just after I posted the B&O anwer, I remembered the overnight NY-Penn - Norfolk car, whcih I rode. I think though it went south on what was the Havana Special and became the Gulf Coast Special and got switched to the Pockey at St. Petersburg. I was PRR - RF&P - ACL -N&W when I rode it. I dont't know about which trains it took northbound, since I only rode it southbound. I could not get back to the web until now.
And I also rode the specific question's sleeping car overnight from Altanta to New Orleans on the Piedmont LImited, and this was a car added to the train in Atlanta and opened for early occupancy. It left on the West Point route, and I wish to defer on the correct names of the two railroads (Atlanta and West Point, and Atlanta and Western Alabama?), and then from Montgomery to New Orleans it was on the Lousville and Nashville. Of course, the Piedmont was primarily a Southern Railroad train, following the same route as the Cresent. But the Cresent was all-Pulllman, at least for a while, while the Piedmont was slower and carried coaches. If I remember, it was a day train to Washington - Atlanta, and overnight to New Orleans. The through sleeper from New York was carried on the Edison to Washington, if I remember correctly, and rode it once NY to Greensburg, NC..
While on the L&N, it picked up the equpiment from the Gulf Coast LImited at Flomaton and ran to New Orleans as a combined train. I also rode the Gulf Coast Limited, from Jacksonvile and from Tallahassee to NO.
So there were really three juction points, West Point, Montgomery, and Flomaton. The two West POint routes always pooled power, and often the L&N power did run through to Atlanta. There may have even been cases where West Point route and L&N ran multiple. But Southern power on the Piedmont did not run through to New Orleans. I never rode the Crescent all the way to New Orleans before Amtrack and the reroute via Birmingham as an all-Southern train.
The Atlanta - New Orleans car I rode was an L&N sleeper. The NY - Norfolk was N&W, but I understand PRR cars predominated.
But KCfan has the answer that you are looking for, I suspect, and I await his question.
First, the Havana Special could not interchange cars with the N&W at Petersburg because it did not go through the Appomatox station, but actually stooped at Ettrick, which was and is the Petersburg stop for through trains to the south.
Second, none of the timetables I have from that period show an Atlanta-Pensacola sleeper, which would, as you said, have been carried on the WPRte (Atlanta & West Point-Western Railway of Alabama) and the L&N with the interchange (I should have used this word instead of "junction") at Montgomery. The Piedmont left Washington about three in the morning, as I recall, so it was a day train only from about Lynchburg south, and it left Atlanta about 6:30 in the evening.
In my time, the Crescent carried coaches south of Atlanta, and after the Southern really reduced the number of trains Washington-Atlanta it carried coaches all the way--and after the Augusta Special wascombined with north of Charlotte, it carried Washington-Augusta coaches.
I do appreciate your reponse.
KCSfan Johnny, I believe the Pullman route you have in mind was the one that ran between Atlanta and Panama City. Its route was CofG between Atlanta and Dothan and Atlanta & St. Andrews Bay between Dothan and Panama City. Equipment in 1954 was a 10 Sec, 2 Comp, 1 DR car. The northbound schedule was Lv. Panama City 7:00 pm, Ar. Atlanta 8:15 am; southbound it was Lv. Atlanta 8:00 pm, Ar. Panama City 7:50 am. Mark
Johnny,
I believe the Pullman route you have in mind was the one that ran between Atlanta and Panama City. Its route was CofG between Atlanta and Dothan and Atlanta & St. Andrews Bay between Dothan and Panama City. Equipment in 1954 was a 10 Sec, 2 Comp, 1 DR car. The northbound schedule was Lv. Panama City 7:00 pm, Ar. Atlanta 8:15 am; southbound it was Lv. Atlanta 8:00 pm, Ar. Panama City 7:50 am.
rcdrye Deggesty has the correct answer (and the only one going to tidewater... and gets the next question. I shortcut my way through thte Official Guide to get the mileage, using the service table instead of the uncondensed table. The PRR table for the service in the 8/1957 OG gives the 226 figure. Both the PRR division timetable and the current Amtrak timetable agree on 224. It looks to me like the RF&P and ACL segments may have been operated as a joint train at least some of the time.
Deggesty has the correct answer (and the only one going to tidewater... and gets the next question. I shortcut my way through thte Official Guide to get the mileage, using the service table instead of the uncondensed table. The PRR table for the service in the 8/1957 OG gives the 226 figure. Both the PRR division timetable and the current Amtrak timetable agree on 224.
It looks to me like the RF&P and ACL segments may have been operated as a joint train at least some of the time.
Back in the early fifties and before, there was a through overnight Pullman between Atlanta and a Gulf Coast city that is west of Tallahassee. What roads carried it, what was the Gulf Coast terminal, and where was the junction point?
The miles for each carrier certainly gives it away: New York City-Norfolk, over the PRR (you show too many miles, since your number includes going into Broad Street and back) (NYC-Washington), RF&P (Washington-Richmond Broad Street), ACL(Richmond Broad Street-Petersburg Appomatox), and N&W (Petersburg Appomatox-Norfolk). The N&W called the Petersburg-Norfolk train the CanninballI.
This will probably give it away:
The entire route was 452 miles long, on four carriers:
226.6 miles
116.5 miles
28.0 miles
80.9 miles
The postwar cars were built by PS (Plan 4140 lot 6792) with three each owned by the RRs that handled the 116 and 80.9 mile segments. The cars were pooled with a Pullman line that ran only the 343.1 miles of the first two segments. The RR with the 226.6 mile segment owned a large pool of similar 10&6 cars. The RR that handled the cars for 28 miles had plenty of sleeping car trains of its own, going to very popular destinations.
Before anyone else comes up with it the TH&B handled sleepers for 38 miles on a Pittsburgh - Toronto line (P&LE, NYC, TH&B, CP), except Toronto isn't really tidewater...
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