Heck of a question...better heck of a response BUT, and believe me I'm not being picky here but that involves an event ONLY 40 years ago. Just referring to the premise of the TOPIC.
It's possible that the West Coast used the current Starlight route direct to Sacramento instead of the Tehama sub via Davis at various times during its long career, but there are photos of it on the wye at Davis. The direction and number change (59/15 and 16/60) happened at Davis even though it wasn't a passenger stop. I'm not sure if SP's practice of changing train indicators was followed consistently since Davis was only 13 miles from Sacramento.
As for your alternate routings... at one time I could have done this in my head - I was actually writing such tickets in 1972. Coupons for underlying carriers were dropped in 1974 or 1975, and preceded by "A-" in 1973 and 1974 (except SR and D&RGW). Since I can't write you an SP Commute coupon to or from San Francisco we'll stick with Amtrak routes at the time. The loop tariff allowed one stopover in each direction, so your fare basis was Chicago to San Diego. Alternate routings from Chicago to west coast points lasted until at least mid 1974 - the last eastern one I remember allowed Chicago Washington New York (All PC/PRR) at no extra cost and also expired in 1974. Let me try a couple of options:
Trip one: RT Birmingham Chicago, RT Chicago San Diego via Oakland, returning via New Orleans - 12 coupons
Birmingham L&N Lousville PC Chicago
Chicago CB&Q Denver UP Ogden SP Oakland: Denver Zephyr/City of San Francisco
You could have used D&RGW on the middle leg but your "Oakland" stopover would only have been valid on certain days of the week, since the "Rio Grande Zephyr" left before the "Denver Zephyr" arrived (or vice versa), and an overnight stop was required in Denver.
Tickets to Oakland were honored to San Francisco on the bus to Transbay Terminal until mid-1974, when a separate coupon was required ($1.50 if memory serves)
Oakland SP LA Depending on day of week Daylight or Starlight
Here your round trip to San Diego kicks in - but your mileage is off because the Santa Fe table includes National City at 133.5 miles from LA (San Diego is 127.9)
LA ATSF San Diego
San Diego ATSF LA
LA SP New Orleans
New Orleans IC(G) Chicago
You could substitute LA SP Houston ATSF Chicago if New Orleans was too far for you.
Chicago PC Louisville L&N Birmingham
Option two:
Take the six coupons RT Birmingham Chicago and LA San Diego and as a given, use this route to "San Diego"
Chicago MILW Minneapolis BN Seattle Easy connection on the North Coast Hi, not so good on Empire Builder to
Seattle BN Portland SP Oakland take your allowed stopover in Oakland
Oakland SP LA
LA ATSF Chicago
A third variant that might not have met the loop tariff requirements and only gets you eleven coupons
Birmingham SR New Orleans
New Orleans SP LA
and reverse the route via Seattle returning Chicago IC New Orleans, New Orleans SR Birmingham.
It is interesting, but the January, 1930, Guide does not indicate any change of number at Davis even though the direction of operation had to change there, and does show a change south of Sacramento.
In 1915, the Santa Fe did have through trains between Oakland and Los Angeles, and the Saint and the Angel had through sleepers between San Diego and Oakland, which could have bypassed LA but did not.
Now: before Amtrak, there were several interesting passenger tariffs in effect (and Amtrak continuing using these for several months), such as the competitive rates between various cities served by competing roads. One example was the tariff between Montgomery, Ala., and Washington, D.C.--whether you went directly via Atlanta (813 miles) or via Jacksonville (1070 miles), the fare was the same. I benefitted from this tariff when I requested a ticket from Birmingham to Jacksonville to Washington to Jefferson City and back to Birmingham by way of Indianapolis.
In February, 1972, I bought a round trip ticket from Birmingham to San Francisco that had twelve coupons--and none of them read to or from San Francisco. The ticket included a free side trip from A to B and back, 133.5 miles each way. What was the routing?
Johnny
The West Coast was a Portland-LA train, heavy on mail and express but still carrying sleepers that changed timetable direction at Davis, a bit west of Sacramento, as it came off of the Tehama Sub onto the "Cal-P". Crew changed at Sacramento. In 2012, the east leg of the wye which was used by the West Coast is long gone. The train was cut back to a Sacramento-LA overnight in the 1950s before it was discontinued. It missed the Bay Area completely.
Back to you for the next question.
rcdrye This western name train changed train number and timetable direction in the middle of its run at a point where it did not change crews. It also bypassed the largest population center between its endpoints, and was the longest (geographically) north-south run on this particular rairoad.
This western name train changed train number and timetable direction in the middle of its run at a point where it did not change crews. It also bypassed the largest population center between its endpoints, and was the longest (geographically) north-south run on this particular rairoad.
It must have been an AT&SF train that ran through to LA bypassing SF, possibly thorugh to San Diego, and going over Tehachapie instead of a bus connection from Bakersfield. I don't have the resources to check on such a train, but there may have been one and someone else might be helped by this hint if correct.
rcdrye Senator Oakland-Sacramento (SP) Cincinnati-Columbus (CCC&St.L) Boston - Washington (NH/PRR)
Senator Oakland-Sacramento (SP)
Cincinnati-Columbus (CCC&St.L)
Boston - Washington (NH/PRR)
That is the name I was looking for. The next question is yours.
KCSfan Capitol City Special - NYC Cleveland - Columbus Capitol Corridor - UP (AMTRAK) Auburn - Sacramento - San Jose Capitol Ltd. B&0 Washington - Chicago Mark
Capitol City Special - NYC Cleveland - Columbus
Capitol Corridor - UP (AMTRAK) Auburn - Sacramento - San Jose
Capitol Ltd. B&0 Washington - Chicago
Mark
Good try, but nope. The three trains I'm looking for had the same name, not variations of one.
daveklepper National? National Limited?
National? National Limited?
Nope....
daveklepper capitol? capitol limited?
capitol? capitol limited?
Nope, that isn't it...but you have the right approach.
Next question.....
You could have boarded a train with this name in Washington D.C., Columbus, OH, or Sacramento, CA, not necessarily in the same time period. Give the name the trains shared, the railroads and the destinations of each train.
That's it. I'm going to assume the cars for the service were carefully selected to meet the clearance requirements. Your question.
rcdrye In 1935 the Pennsy offered (in partnership with the New Haven) a fast merchandise freight train that operated from Baltimore and Philadelphia to New England via Penn Station and Hell Gate Bridge. What was the train's name?
In 1935 the Pennsy offered (in partnership with the New Haven) a fast merchandise freight train that operated from Baltimore and Philadelphia to New England via Penn Station and Hell Gate Bridge. What was the train's name?
Would the name be the Speed Witch?
Amtrak's 1972 summer-only through service from NY to LA on the National Limited and the Chief carried a coach and a sleeper. I rode the sleeper in August 1972.
A master room had two lower berths and a shower, as well as a toilet annex (I think the shower had its own enclosure, unlike the showers in Amtrak bedrooms), and apparently had seating for six people, since Pullman required six seat tickets for day service.
The Master Room-Bedroom Observation Lounge cars built for the 1937 Century were rebuilt (1949?) as 4 Bedroom Observation Lounge cars for the Commodore Vanderbilt, and were replaced by the famous 5 Bedroom-Observation Bar Lounge Hickory Creek and Sandy Creek.
In 1937, the PRR began operating 2 Drawing Room-Master Room-Obs-Buffet Lounge cars on the Broadway (Metropolitan View and Skyline View). In 1949, these were displaced by Mountain View and Tower View--and apparently operated on the General.
In 1950, no other trains had cars with master rooms assigned to them.
I am not familiar with the term "Master Room". Would it be similar to a Drawing Room? How many berths?
Rob, you have the right description of the cars and the right word that was common to all four names--and you are right as to to the name of the fourth car. Southern operated the cars Washington-Atlanta on the Southern Crescent, which was the only other train scheduled to carry such cars.
In 1964, I slept in the lounge of one of the cars from Greenville to Gainesville, where the porter put me into a bedroom in Caroline County (RF&P 10-6 built for service on the ACL) for the rest of my trip to Atlanta (I had started from Charlotte on #35, and because I was not able to sleep I changed in Greenville to the Crescent).
Now, you may give us a new question.
The lounge sleeper replacements on the Crescent Limited were the Crescent series sleeper lounges (2DR 1 Master Room). Car names I can remember were:
Crescent City
Crescent Harbor
Crescent Moon
I think the fouth one was Crescent Shores
They remained in service until the Amtrak takeover in 1979. I rode in the Master Room in Crescent Harbor in 1974 from Atlanta to Washington.
Mark, there were no lightweight 10 sec. Restaurant-Lounge cars.
As to February, 1946 (I do not have anything of that date, but do have a September, 1946 timetable, which shows the same car), since there was the restaurant-lounge sleeper, it was not necessary to take a meal service car off short of New Orleans and put it on the northbound train.
Deggesty Until the Crescent was completely re-equipped with lightweight sleepers, it carried a club-lounge (radio) between Washington and Atlanta. What lightweight car replaced this car, what were the sleeping accommodations, and what word was common to the names of all the cars of this type? Did any other train carry such a car?
Until the Crescent was completely re-equipped with lightweight sleepers, it carried a club-lounge (radio) between Washington and Atlanta. What lightweight car replaced this car, what were the sleeping accommodations, and what word was common to the names of all the cars of this type? Did any other train carry such a car?
Would this be a Pullman 10 sec. Restaurant Lounge car? I'm not sure if these were lightweight cars however .In 1946 a car of the same type ran in the Q&C detween Cincinnati and NO.
Incidentally I found Markwald shown in the March 46 OG but no trains stopped there. The same OG also shows that No's 43 and 44 met at Vossburg. The time for both trains at that point is listed as 1:48 pm.
A note to the NY-LA through service: I know of no through coach ever operated through New Orleans or through Chicago (nor through St. Louis/Kansas City, though Amtrak did operate a through sleeper on this route).
You found the one I was looking for. The Twin Star was considered by some the longest north-south run, since the Texas Chief was (sort of) a northeast-southwest run. The interesting note on the cars is that they were built in 1954, very late for new sleepers, and were also fairly low capacity, with fewer roomettes than the more common 10&6. The Golden State Route was advertised for years as the best route (at least from Chicago) for heart patients due to its low crossing of the divide.
rcdrye By the OG I was looking in, Chicago-Madison-Twin Cities trains were almost as slow as the Soo's entry. In 1957, this sleeper (and a coach) originated on the longest north-south run in the U.S. and finished on the lowest east-west run. End points, carriers, and car type.
By the OG I was looking in, Chicago-Madison-Twin Cities trains were almost as slow as the Soo's entry.
In 1957, this sleeper (and a coach) originated on the longest north-south run in the U.S. and finished on the lowest east-west run.
End points, carriers, and car type.
No, through car service had been dropped via New Orleans, though of course still active via Chicago. It might help to say that the north-south run touched or crossed all of what are usually considered the (U.S.) transcontinental routes.
In 1957 ws there a coach and sleeper pair that made it all the way from New York to LA via the Crescent or Piedmont, PRR, Sou, West Point Rt., L&N, to New Orleans and then the SP's Sunset Lmtd. to LA?
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