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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 30, 2012 11:50 AM

Close enough for a fun quiz.  Sky Dome was an early B&O designator before they settled on Strata Dome (which I forgot).  GN used the "Great Dome" name for their full length cars but just designated the short domes as "Dome coaches". The third train from Chicago with NP domes was the PRR/L&N/ACL/FEC South Wind.  From the photos I've seen, IC repainted the NP cars, PRR didn't.  Depending on the year (since IC painted them back in NP colors after the winter season) the NP/IC cars were either lettered Pullman with NP lettering on the ends or had the full Northern Pacific name spelled out on the letterboard.

Back to you for the next question.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, November 30, 2012 8:34 AM

Vista Dome - CB&Q / Rio Grande / WP / NP /SP&S

Domeliner - UP

Planetarium Dome - MP

Sky Dome - CP ?

Pleasure Dome - AT&SF

Great Dome - GN /SP&S

Super Dome - Milw / GN / SP&S

You didn't mention Shasta Dome which was The B&O's name for its dome cars on the Capitol Ltd. and Shenandoah

The Wabash Bluebird ran with a dome Observation/Parlor Car and dome chair cars but I can't find any special name given to these cars.

The SAL's Silver Meteor carried a glass topped car but it wasn't a true dome since clearances prohibited their use of dome cars.

In the winter of 1959-60 NP sleeper domes ran in the City of Miami - IC/CofG/ACL/FEC Chi-Miami and the North Coast Ltd - CB&Q/NP/SP&S Chi to Seattle and Portland. I don't know of the third train unless it was the Mainstreeter.

Mark

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 30, 2012 6:36 AM

Let's slow down and look at the scenery a bit...

Here are some brand names used for dome cars.  Name the carriers that used them.  Railroad names may appear more than once.

Vista Dome

Domeliner

Scenic Dome

Planetarium Dome

Sky Dome

Pleasure Dome

Big Dome

Great Dome

Super Dome

Extra credit: During the winter of 1959-1960, NP 4-4-4 sleeper-domes ran on three trains out of Chicago. Train name, railroads and destinations.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, November 30, 2012 5:05 AM

You are correct.   When I made the trip, we had two RDCs leaving North Station about 1pm, arriving in Portland in the early evening, with two other connecting passengers (and extensive carry-on acoustical test equipment), a taxi to the Grand Trunk station, then before boarding I learned that meal service was only available to parlor car passengers, and the six-wheel modernized parlor was at the end of the train, and one seat was still available, so I paid for a cash upgrade.   I distinctly remember the name of the parlor car:

Allouette!

I rode the back platform while still daylight, then ate two of the sandwiches offered by the buffet service plus two cups of hot tea, and went to sleep, arriving in Montreal near midnight, with a reservation at the CN hotel upstairs from the station.   The next morning I took a CP Budd-car train to Three Rivers for a project at Cap de Madelaine, the Cathedral du Notre Dam de Cap.   I think that sound system is still working after 52 years!

French Canadians like to vacation at Old Orchard Beach, Maine.

The attendant in the parlor car was reluctant to handle USA money, so some Canadians exchanged money with me so I could pay him in Canadian money!

Next question yours RC

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:17 AM

After regular daily service was discontinued in 1960,  the CN/GT ran trains from Montreal to Portland ME on summer weekends (with a bus connection to Old Orchard Beach) until 1967.  For a short period of time after the RDC runs via White River Jct were discontinued it was still possible to make a connection from a Boston-Portland RDC run, before those, too, were dropped.  CN/GT  trains were either RDC equipment or conventional coaches with boiler GP9s, often lettered Central Vermont.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:58 AM

After the RDC Allouette came off, the very last through Boston - Montreal train, it was of course still possible to go from Boston to Montreal by using the remaining New York Central/Boston and Albany train from South Station to Springfield, and then waiting for the Montrealer to come through from Penn Station and Washington.   The northbound layover was not as horrible as the southbound, via the Washingtonian and New England States remnant, but both weren't very nice.   In any case, northbound one would leave Boston around 2 or 3 in the afternoon and arrive in Montreal the next morning.  But once or twice a week there was a faster way.   What was it, which railroads, what equipment, which location the transfer point, and how did one make the connection, again, at the period just after the Allouette was finally discontinued.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:54 AM

You got it.  The White Mountain Division from Concord to Woodsville was abandoned in 1954 between Plymouth NH and Blackmount NH (near Woodsville), so the remaining traffic after that was handled via White River Jct.  The Red Wing ran from Wells River Vt. to Concord and Boston via White River Jct, with the CP power (if used) usually turned at the B&M roundhouse at Westboro (West Lebanon) NH after coming off at White River Jct. The Boston-Montreal sleeper via the Montrealer/Washingtonion was gone by 1947. B&M's lone E8 was supposed to be for this pool but ended up in general service with the E7s almost immediately.

After the mid 1950s the afternoon drill in White River Jct had the B&M's RDCs from Boston arriving around the same time as the northbound Ambassador (NH/B&M) with the CP/B&M train from the north (Montreal and Berlin NH, RDCs combined at Wells River VT) and the southbound Ambassador (CN/CV).  All of the arrivals and departures were scheduled between 3:45 and 4:15 PM.  With CV and B&M power getting swapped on both Ambassadors, the operator handling the ball signal was a busy man.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 3:32 PM

The Allouette and the Red Wing.   The first the day Montreal - Boston train, the second the overnight.  They ran opposite B&M E-7's (occasionally the B&M's one E8).   The route was CP Windsor St., Montreal - Wells River Jc., then B&M through Concord, Manchaster, Nashua, and Lowell to North Station, Boston.   The power always ran through on the Allouette but occasionally was swapped the Wells River on the overnight.   In the steam days, power also ran through, and I once did ride Boston - Concord behind a CP 4-6-2.    In the steam days after traffic dropped off after WWII,  the Red Wing also carried coaches and one sleepers to Concord where they separated and ran to White River Jc. as the Boston leg of the Montrealler, but this was dropped I believe by the time of dieselizaton.   The Red Wing came off around 1960, the tracks between Plymouth and Wells River went out of service shortly after, and the Allouette was rerouted via White River Junction, then north to Wells River.   Connections both ways were established at White River Junction with the Ambassador, so it was possible to continue on the CV - CN route as well as via the CP to Montreal.   And the B&M E-7's and CP E-8's were replaced by RDC's, usually one B&M RDC mu'ed with a CP RDC.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 12:41 PM

In the late 1940s Canadian Pacific bought three U.S. buit E8s for a particular passenger train.  Name the train, its endpoints and route.  For extra credit, name the other train these units often ended up on in the early years before moving to the Montreal-St John Atlantic.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 12:31 PM

rcdrye

The pieces that stayed in the Southern Railway System:

 Cincinnati New Orleans and Texas Pacific

 Alabama Great Southern

 New Orleans and Northeastern

The other two ended up in the Illinois Central's system

 Alabama and Vicksburg

 Vicksburg Shreveport and Pacific

The A&V and the VS&P were merged together (and further subsumed under IC's Yazoo and Mississipi Valley) under the IC diamond. Some locomotives were sublettered for Y&MV/VS&P into the diesel era.  Of course the Southern System sublettered for Q&C roads right up to the NS merger.

A+, absolutely correct. Next question Rob.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:06 AM

One minor addendum,  New Orleans & Northeastern was absorbed into Alabama Great Southern some time prior to 1970.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:39 AM

The pieces that stayed in the Southern Railway System:

 Cincinnati New Orleans and Texas Pacific

 Alabama Great Southern

 New Orleans and Northeastern

The other two ended up in the Illinois Central's system

 Alabama and Vicksburg

 Vicksburg Shreveport and Pacific

The A&V and the VS&P were merged together (and further subsumed under IC's Yazoo and Mississipi Valley) under the IC diamond. Some locomotives were sublettered for Y&MV/VS&P into the diesel era.  Of course the Southern System sublettered for Q&C roads right up to the NS merger.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, November 26, 2012 9:21 PM

Before it was absorbed into the Southern Ry System The Queen & Crescent Route consisted of five different railroads. What were these five roads?  The SR In 1926 leased two of the five to still another railroad which subsequently operated them as part of its system. What two RR's were these and to what road were they leased?

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:35 PM

Gonna give it to KCSFAN.  Erie is not only the shortest but the car was cut off the main at Meadville so it there was no change of cars.  

Mark, you've made your mark here, now it's your turn to do so with a question for us.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, November 23, 2012 8:21 AM

The March 1937 OG shows a through 12 Sec/DR sleeper carried in PRR train No. 581 between NY and Corry and train No. 950 between Corry and Oil City. The same OG shows there was no rail passenger  service to Oil City on the Erie but lists connecting bus servie via the Walsh Bus Line between Meadville and Oil City.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, November 23, 2012 4:07 AM

The shortest route would be Erie NY (Jersey City) to Corry and PRR Corry - Oil City 518.7 miles.

An all PRR route via Philly, Harrisburg and Corry would be 543 miles. An all Erie route via Meadville would be 546 miles, just slightly longer.

I'd have to do a bit more research to find out if Pullman service to Oil City was available on either or both the PRR from Corry and the Erie from Meadville.

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, November 22, 2012 10:52 AM

Ok...lets try this.  I am in New York City and booking a rail ticket and Pullman space to Oil City, PA.  Routing please.  Date is not important but most direct routing is.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Thursday, November 22, 2012 10:29 AM

And Happy Thanksgiving from sunny Jacksonville, FL to all on the board!  Dinner

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, November 22, 2012 9:45 AM

Thanksgiving Day 2012.  I'm thinking! I'm thinking.  In the meantime, Happy Thanksgiving.

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:21 PM

Oh, and I thought it was really Portland, Maine!   OK..but give me this day to conjure up a question....

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 11:38 AM

New London it is.  CV trip-leased CN units, usually FM CFA16-4 cab units but also occasional F7s, for the through freight to New London from about 1949 to about 1957.  This directly relieved the CV's 2-10-4s (the 700 series, see the Fall 2012 Classic Trains issue) which had to be turned at Brattleboro anyway.  The 700s help out until the end of CV steam pulling the through freights interchanged with B&M at Brattleboro.  The line south of Brattleboro had a number of light bridges and required units of about 2-8-0 size, often doubleheaded with a few cars between the engines. The diesels could run through.  The practice ended when CV got its GP9s.

Your question, Henry!

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 9:42 AM

CN units did operate over the CV into Vt. and sometimes all the way to New London.  But also on the GT into Portland, ME.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 9:30 AM

I think CN locomotives operated into White River Junction, VT, over the Central Vermont on occasion.

And they also opeated on the Grand Trunk, not the Grand Trunk Western, into Portland, ME.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 6:32 AM

CN locomotives did not operate in regular service on the Grand Trunk Western until the 1970s.  The regular service operation began in 1949 and lasted into the late 1950s, at least.  The American built lcoomotives replaced by CN units were among the smallest of their wheel arrangement.

You guys are close on latitude.  Valparaiso is just a bit south of the city I'm looking for,

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 6:06 AM

IGN, I think Valpariso was a bit further south than Portage on the GTW. Possibly CN locomotives might have run as far south as Toledo on the D&TSL which was jointly owned but the GTW and the Nickle Plate.

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:06 AM

rcdrye

Prior to the 1960s this was the southernmost city in the U.S. that saw Canadian National locomotives operating in regular service. 

WAG:   Portage, In?

Rgds IGN

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:26 PM

Prior to the 1960s this was the southernmost city in the U.S. that saw Canadian National locomotives operating in regular service. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:54 AM

Yes, Rob has the onus of asking another question.

My ticket read: Birmingham-Louisville (L&N)-Chicago (PC)-LA(SFe)-San Diego (SFe)-LA (SFe)-Portland (SP)-Seattle (BN)-Minneapolis (BN)-Chicago (Milw)-Louisville (PC)-Birmingham (L&N). Whoops! it was only eleven coupons; I must have been thinking about my stopover in Pasco so that I could visit in Boise (by bus: Pasco-Walla Walla-Pendleton-Boise and back; my penultimate trip with overnights by bus). Going, I spent a night in Peoria and a night in Rock Island (bus between the two) so I could ride the remaining available RI lines, two nights in Palos Verde Pen. (before going to San Diego). Coming back, I spent one night in Seattle and one night in Boise.

David P. Morgan's trip, using the same tariff, was west on the North Coast Limited from Chicago, and then south to LA (free side trip to San Diego) and then back by way of Texas, on the Sunset Limited, so he could visit his father (he did have to pay extra to go that way).

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:46 AM

But does RC get to ask the next question?

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:35 PM

The tariff was in effect before the fifties, and the ticket could have been written in the fifties, with the name of one railroad being different. I will admit that one train (with a pre-Amtrak train, with the same name and end points) ran on a different routing before the advent of Amtrak(pre-Amtrak, it would have required two more coupons to go the way I did go)--but the routing did make possible a stopover from which I took a side trip by bus to visit a woman whom I had met the previous year when making my first trip to the Pacific Northwest, and we married the following summer.

At that time, each road used by Amtrak required its own coupon, and one road required a separate coupon for each of two legs (I had thought one coupon would serve, but I was wrong.

The fare basis was Chicago-San Francisco.

If you have access to Trains magazine in the early fifties, you can find the account of a trip which David P. Morgan and another man took, using the Chicago-San Francisco tariff.

I did not have a stopover in Oakland, nor did I go through New Orleans (the entire trip was on Amtrak trains). Also, I was not informed of any limit as to the number of stopovers; I spent two nights in each of two places, one night in one place, and three nights with one of the stopovers.

Johnny

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