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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, February 13, 2014 9:01 PM

rcdrye

After the FEC was struck in 1963, the Atlantic Coast Line came to an agreement to forward cars or trains that had formerly operated on FEC via Seaboard Air Line's route, some of which is still used by Amtrak's Siver Meteor and Silver Star.  Between 1963 and the 1967 Seaboard Coast Line merger some trains were handled in their entirety by SAL from Jacksonville to Miami (Champion, Florida Special, City of Miami) while in other cases cars from ACL trains were handled as blocks in Seaboard trains, sometimes exchanged from the Tampa or St. Petersburg sections at other locations.  More changes ocurred after the SCL merger.  Today's route is made up of portions of ACL's route to Tampa and the SAL route to Miami.

In 1957, through Pullmans from Detroit to Florida left Detroit's Michigan Central Station behind  locomotives with MC crews.  The Pullmans were eventually turned over to the traditional Florida Carriers in Cincinnati, arriving in Cincinnati on two different railroads.  What were the railroads?

B&O and New York Central (Big Four)

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:02 PM

After the FEC was struck in 1963, the Atlantic Coast Line came to an agreement to forward cars or trains that had formerly operated on FEC via Seaboard Air Line's route, some of which is still used by Amtrak's Siver Meteor and Silver Star.  Between 1963 and the 1967 Seaboard Coast Line merger some trains were handled in their entirety by SAL from Jacksonville to Miami (Champion, Florida Special, City of Miami) while in other cases cars from ACL trains were handled as blocks in Seaboard trains, sometimes exchanged from the Tampa or St. Petersburg sections at other locations.  More changes ocurred after the SCL merger.  Today's route is made up of portions of ACL's route to Tampa and the SAL route to Miami.

In 1957, through Pullmans from Detroit to Florida left Detroit's Michigan Central Station behind  locomotives with MC crews.  The Pullmans were eventually turned over to the traditional Florida Carriers in Cincinnati, arriving in Cincinnati on two different railroads.  What were the railroads?

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:50 PM

YES    Now give the detalis, and then please ask the next question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, February 13, 2014 6:24 AM

Was this the reroute over Seaboard of Florida trains during and after the Florida East Coast Strike? 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:49 AM

Hint:   There were trains that had one of two sections rerouted rather than the entire train, or later, just through cars rerouted rather than the entire train.   The line blockage was not a physical blockage per se, in that no derailment or fire or snow was responsible..  The revised route is used by Amtrak currently.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:55 PM

At the moment, the only rerouting I can think of that begins to meet the requirements is that of the West Coast and Denver Cities--but the rerouting from C&NW to CMStP&P was not because of line blockage--and Amtrak chose not to use the UP east of Cheyenne.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:32 PM

Competing railroads have always helped each other out in emergencies.   When the C&NW had a block, its freight and passenger trains did detour over the CMStP&P and the CB&Q.  In the post WWII history of passenger trains, there was one such reroute that became permanent right up to and including Amtrak.  In total, more than two railroads were involved in the passenger trains discussed.

What were the circumstances, the trains, and the railroads, and the roroute locations?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 10:50 AM

daveklepper
Took up less room on the GCT station track, allowing a longer train to fit and less of a walk inbound to the concourse.

Even though the Century often arrived on one of the loop tracks, a 16 car train and a P-motor fouled part of the station plant.  By the end of Century operation in 1967, 16 car trains were rare enough that assigning a P motor instead of a 50+ year old T motor was workable.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 10:23 AM

Took up less room on the GCT station track, allowing a longer train to fit and less of a walk inbound to the concourse.   But this did not last.  The last run of the train used a P-motor, inbound.

It may also be that initially the steam-heat boilers of the P's had less capacity either to make steam or with regard to fuel, than that of the T's.  But this may have been remedied.   The electric run from GCT to Harmon is longer and takes than the time trains spent behind P's in Cleveland without steam locomotive heating.  (With some through trains, did not the P simply couple on the whole train, including the steam or diesel in Cleveland?)

The "Steel Fleet," the consolidate train that replaced the 20th and a whole slew of others, always drew a P-motor.  I think by then the T's were gone, except for one moved to Penn Station for the wire train, replacing a DD-1.   

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:55 AM

After the arrival of the former Cleveland "P" motors in the early 1950s, the 20th Century continued to be assigned a smaller "T" motor instead.  What was the reason for this assignment?

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:07 AM

Close enough. It was actually in 1937 when radios were installed in the observation cars of 20th Century and Southwestern Ltds., and in the 6BR/lounge cars of the Commodore Vanderbilt and Water Level Ltd. The next question is yours to ask.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:52 AM

1938 20th Century?  Many 1930s radio sets were designed for 32 volt operation which was the standard voltage for Pullman as well as for marine radio systems.

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:00 AM

Surprisingly, Dave, it was quite a bit later than that. The NYC was not a pioneer when it came to adopting radio on its trains.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 3:00 AM

I think around 1929 or 1930 on premier all-:Pullman trains such as the 20th Century, Detroit Limited, Southwestern Lmtd., in the observation lounge cars, using console home-model floor-standing radios with built-in front loudspeakers, modified to use the on-board bettery power furnished by the axle-driven generators.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:47 PM

When did the New York Central first equip some of its passenger trains with on-board radios? On what trains and in what type of cars were the radios installed?

Mark 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:11 PM

KCSfan

VGN - Mark

The year 1907 should have tipped you off.  The Virginian's orange passenger trains operated between Norfolk and Roanoke, and between Roanoke and Charleston WV.  At Gauley Bridge WV, the west end of the Virginian, the VGN trains continued over the NYC's Toledo and Ohio Central to Charleston.  Despite being VGN orange and being headed by a VGN TA or PA locomotive, it was considered a T&OC train, the result of a rights swap which gave NYC access to various coal branches.  The pool arrangement lasted for freight trains and crews long after the Roanoke-Charleston passenger trains were discontinued.  The steel cars that replaced the wooden cars shown at the Jamestown exhibition also replaced the orange color scheme with green.  The orange lived on in car lettering and later paint jobs on VGN electrics and diesels.

C&O also had orange and maroon cars.

Your question!

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:20 PM

VGN - Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:08 PM

KCSfan

Coal - N&W

Mark

N&W favored maroon, and ran a reasonably full-service passenger business.  This carrier was never noted as a passenger carrier.  You're in the neighborhood, though.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:53 PM

Coal - N&W

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:01 PM

daveklepper

  Rutland    (milk)   entering from the south, it was a NYC train to Albany.   Southbound, an NYC train in Albany.

Or Bath and Hammondsfort   wine,   or Unadilla  Valley   wine

This stuff was a lot heavier, and they moved a lot more of it.  If it's any help both states the train traversed were once the same state...

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:48 PM

  Rutland    (milk)   entering from the south, it was a NYC train to Albany.   Southbound, an NYC train in Albany.

Or Bath and Hammondsfort   wine,   or Unadilla  Valley   wine

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:04 AM

The railroad owning the orange and maroon cars was best known for hauling one thing, and it wasn't passengers...

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:26 AM

Lake Shore and Michigan Southern    OR    Michigan Central 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:07 AM

Chesapeake & Ohio

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:04 AM

daveklepper

Wagner car company

Albany

This particular train was railroad-owned.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:16 AM

Wagner car company

Albany

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:56 AM

One of this company's orange and maroon passenger trains was exhibited at the 1907 Jamestown exhibition before entering service. When in service it arrived daily in a capital city as a New York Central train.

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, February 10, 2014 7:58 PM

RC, your question.

The Ocean Shore also had some very hard geography to build through. What they did build was impressive.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, February 10, 2014 9:40 AM

The Ocean Shore Railway picked a particularly bad time to start construction, beginning in 1905. The 1906 earthquake prevented completion of the line, which got a way north from Santa Cruz and about 20 miles south of San Francisco before construction stopped.  The section inside San Francisco was electrified.  Operation with steam or railcars ended in 1921, with some trackage inside San Francisco taken over by Muni or United RRs.  A small piece of former Ocean Shore trackage provided WP's connection to the State Belt Railway from its carfloat bridge until float operations were abandoned in the 1980s.

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, February 10, 2014 9:09 AM

This railroad was started to connect San Francisco and Santa Cruz, but only completed two sections, one of which was partially electrified.

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