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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:18 AM

What shortline railroad that ultimately became a part of the Seaboard Air Line planned but never built an extension into an adjacent state that would have more than doubled its route mileage? The proposed extension was shown on the map of the railroad in the Official Guides of the time. At a later date the SAL's arch rival did build a line running to and through the towns on the route of the shortlines planned extension. Name the railroad and the end points of its planned but un-built line.

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Posted by NorthWest on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 9:11 AM

Mark, you got it. The California Southern (Santa Fe subsidiary) did build from San Diego north through Fall Brook and Temecula, through Temecula Canyon, where the tracks are now gone. The Surf Line along the coast was completed in the 1880s, and the prone to washouts line abandoned.

Your question.

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 7:29 AM

NorthWest
 

This railroad built between Colton, CA and San Diego, CA on an alignment that is largely abandoned today.

The Santa Fe had a line running from San Bernadino through Colton and Riverside to join the LA-SD main line at or near Orange. They also had a line through Colton and Perris to Temecula and another from Fall Brook to San Juan Capistrano but there was a short gap between the two. The Santa Fe may at some time have built a line to bridge the gap between Temecula and Fall Brook but I'm not aware that they ever did so.

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 7:56 PM

I think the Jet Rocket's LWT12 had a Blomberg truck, distinguishing it from the other two. The Talgo was IIRC built for Rock Island.

A photo of the Rock Island's rather interesting commuter coaches: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=267704&showexif=1#exifshow

 

This railroad built between Colton, CA and San Diego, CA on an alignment that is largely abandoned today.

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:12 AM

RI did have both of the Aerotrains, but I believe that the "Jet Rocket" was a Talgo, although it was also pulled by an LWT12, same as the Aerotrains.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 8:09 AM

You coiuld count the NYW&B demotored cars as both used and center-door, however.  They replaced the last of the open-platform wood cars pre-WWII, then were replaced by converted parlors in 1950--1951.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 6:42 AM

The Rock Island is correct.  The three "used" trains were the GM Aerotrains, though the one used as the Jet Rocket may actually have been bought new by Rock Island.  The thing that triggered this was a photo of an RI train at Englewood with a mix of car types, including the three car articulated set originally built for the Des Moines Rocket. RI's FM H-15-44s were bought by the bankruptcy trustee against the mechanical department's advice.  Usual power for commuter run was an RS3, with demoted E6/E7 or DL109 (including a DL109 repowered by EMD with a pronounced hump) but just about anything with a boiler could show up, including BL2s.

The C&NW-style semi-lightweights were known as "Al Capone" cars, since Capone lived in the Beverly area traversed by the RI's Suburban line, still part of today's Metra.  I'm sure the center entrance cars were supposed to be air-conditioned, but the customers might have disputed that, especially in the late 60's and early 1970s.  All of this stuff was replaced by RI's Budd push-pull gallery cars of 1965, and P-S cars from around 1970.  Prior to Metra RI used converted mainline power on the bilevels, including an AB6 built for the Rocky Mountain Rocket, along with several ex-UP units acquired in the early 1970s.

New Haven comes close but it didn't buy any "used" stuff.  NH did have boiler-equipped units from EMD, Alco and Fairbanks-Morse, most of which survived until Penn Central days.  B&M Actually bought the FM Speed Merchants and Talgo cars, under the same McGinnis management as the New Haven. They didn't have the flexibility of RDCs, and ended up in Boston-Reading service.

On to your question, NorthWest!

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 18, 2014 6:24 AM

Northwest is correct, and I would have given the same answer.   But you mean bought new, is bought new for the railroad, because much of the power, and the articulated cars in particular, were downgraded from intercity service.   I  believe at one time the Rock had in service  Alco, EMD, and Faribanks Morce power on its commuter trains.  It had a lot of Harriman coaches  in suburban service, but it also had some semi-lighweight more sparten pure commuter coaches, similar to those on the Northwestern.  Its first post-WWII commuter-car purchases were for lighweight single-level center-entrance cars, which may have been air-conditioned.   Then there was the demotion of its articulated GM  Aerotrain to commuter service, before it was scrapped, and this was its articulated train.   Or was it a Talgo?

The New Haven could also qualify in its Boston operations, if you count the relocated New York Westchester and Boston cars as center-entrance cars, even thought the center doors were not used on the New Haven, and count the Goodyeear articulaed Comet as in commuter service, making two Boston   - Prrovidence rount trips with local stops.

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, February 17, 2014 8:08 PM

Rock Island?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, February 17, 2014 5:06 PM

Here's one to hold a place.  If Johnny wants to replace it, he's welcome.

All of this railroad's commuter equipment was bought new except for three trains.  It had semi-lightweight cars, center entrance cars, and articulated cars bought for mainline trains.  Commuter train power came from three different builders.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, February 17, 2014 8:39 AM

I meant Rob, sorry for Dislexia again, but either way is OK.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, February 17, 2014 6:26 AM

I'd be happy with you throwing another question, Johnny!

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, February 17, 2014 12:21 AM

I have zero problem at all with Digesty asking the next question.  Ask away!!

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 16, 2014 7:58 PM

Actually, Rob, I was thinking of the C&EI's LaSalle, which Lucius Beebe mentions on page 24 of his (and Charles Clegg's) The Trains We Rode. However, you did name two roads that used the name--and one of the two did use the LaSalle Street station (which the PRR did not use). So, you and Dave may fight it out as to which one asks the next question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, February 16, 2014 7:46 PM

The Rock Island had the Chicago-Omaha LaSalle Street Limited.  The Grand Trunk/Grand Trunk Western had a train called the La Salle from Montreal to Chicago before World War II with an eastbound counterpart Maple Leaf.  I'm pretty sure you're looking for the Rock Island train.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 16, 2014 4:33 PM

Rob, since many of the passengers were connected with finance, it was suggested that one train be named the Wall Street, and the other be named the Lasalle.

Dave told us of the Wall Streeter, which the Reading operated between Philadelphia and Jersey City. What road did operate a train named the Lasalle, and what was its other terminus? I thought of adding these two trains to the question after posting; will this be accepted as a tie breaker?

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, February 16, 2014 3:38 PM

The LaSalle St (that's where the B of T is located)?  LaSalle St is intimately associated with the New York Central...

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 16, 2014 1:52 PM

Sorry, not it.

Perhaps the suggestion was not followed up because the competition had a connection with it.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, February 16, 2014 1:42 PM

Wacker for Wacker Drive (and Canal)  

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 16, 2014 1:18 PM

I do not know of a Corn King Street in Chicago, though the IC did have a Corn King that ran from Iowa to Chicago. The other road that did use the name also ran a day train.

You are close with the Loop, but it ran around many streets.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, February 16, 2014 6:29 AM

The Wall Street and The Loop?

The Corn King?

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:08 PM

Dave, you have one of them right. Incidentally, two other railroads (not NYC-Chicago) named a train for the locations.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, February 15, 2014 7:49 PM

Wall Street, to NY, and State Street to Chicago.  

I think the name The Wall Street was used by the Reading for one if its Philadelphia - Jersey City trains for a considerable period.   It and the Crusader were the last two operated after hourly service was eliminated witih just two morning and two return evening trains.  The Crusader had the Budd stainless equipment, and the Wall Street rebuilt suburban cars into a semi-streamlined train.   By the time the Aldein plan was effected, both used Budd RDC's.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 15, 2014 2:42 PM

Dave, you are getting close. Where are these located?

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, February 15, 2014 1:31 PM

Stock Exchange and Board of Trade?    Or names somehow related to these institutions?

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:54 AM

No, one had to do with Chicago, and the other had to do with New York; neither had anything to do with Washington.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, February 14, 2014 10:17 PM

Deggesty

What two names did John Barriger suggest would better fit the best train the Pennsylvania ran between New York and Chicago, considering the train's clientele?

I'm just guessing but I'll say the Executive and the President.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, February 14, 2014 11:36 AM

What two names did John Barriger suggest would better fit the best train the Pennsylvania ran between New York and Chicago, considering the train's clientele?

Johnny

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, February 14, 2014 7:57 AM

Even if the handoff was handled at Auburndale, the trains were listed in at least some public TTs as SAL Jacksonville-Miami. 

Johnny has the correct answer. B&O trains were handled as ordinary MC trains by the crews Detroit-Toledo, but were not in the MC/NYC public timetable and only B&O tickets were honored.  After the B&O/C&O affiliation B&O's through trains were moved to Fort Street Union Depot in Detroit, but B&O kept an RDC in Deshler Ohio for a Saturday-only round trip to Detroit via the (by then) NYC, to avoid paying MC/NYC the penalty for abandoning their rights to Detroit. This franchise service lasted until 1965 or 1966.  The all-NYC Lines cars headed to the Southern Railway were technically handed over to the Big Four at Toledo as well.

All of the NYC's subsidiaries were merged into the parent company between 1958 and 1962, as the original bond issues were retired. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, February 14, 2014 4:22 AM

,The comment about ACL trains being forwarded by the SAL Jax-Miami was correct only for the first week or so.  Maybe only two days!  I rode the West Coast Champion to Lakeland, FL, In connection with my work with Oflando Architects Nils Schweizer and Associates at Florida Sou. U. (Branscomb Memorial Aduitorium), the second week of the strike, and the Aurbundale connection was already in effect (possibly at first involving a back-up move on a rehabilitated existing interchange track), and the East Coast Champion was using it .  So, later in my Florida visit, I was able to buy an ACL Orlando - Miami ticket and help another client in Miami (Tom Madden) without renting a car or using buses.  I do not know if Aurbundale is a passsenger stop today, but of course it was a crew-change stop, where the ACL engine crews were replaced by SAL's.  The ACL train crews ran through, if I remember correctly.  The main Jacksonville - Orlando - Tampa route crosses the SAL Jacksonvlle - Wildwood - West Palm Beach - Miami route at Auburndale, and this is the connection that was used at least in the second week of the strike and to the present day by Amtrak.   So  from then on, I could a much greater variety of trains to Orlando, including the fast winter-only Florida Special.  (But some winters it didn't stop there.)

Once, in Miami working for Tom Madden, I learned the FEC had been forced to reinstate passenger service and was running a daily train.   My next stop was in Jacksonville with architects Kemp Bunch and Jackson, for the Civic Auditorium.  After working at Tom's office, he was to drive me to the station, but we got to delayed by traffic and got to the FEC station just in time to see the round-end obs, coach, bag, and E-unit leaving.  Tom was crestfallen and offered to drive me all the way to Jacksonville in his gull-wing Merecedes sports car, and I accepted the offer.   I even had the opportunity to drive this rare car for a spell.   But I never did get the opportunity to ride the FEC.

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