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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 20, 2014 11:02 AM

Did L&N still have a sleeper on the Flamingo?

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:57 AM

Yes, Dave, you were right in naming the Ponce de Leon. It still ran all the way between Cincinnati and Jacksonville.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:24 AM

but Igot the Ponce de Leon right?

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 20, 2014 9:22 AM

A. Sorry, the Florida Sunbeam was several years dead by 1953 (and it was both coach and Pullman), and the Dixie Flagler ran through Nashville and Evansville (and it also was both coach and Pullman)

B Sorry, the Royal Palm was a day train between Cincinnati and Atlanta (and it was both coach and Pullman, still). Which of the other two was all coach, and which had a through Pullman?

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, March 20, 2014 4:59 AM

Johnny, since I don't have any early 1960's OG's I don't know if any of these trains were still running but I'll guess anyway.

SR - Royal Palm

L&N - Flamingo

L&N - Hummingbird to Nashville and NC&StL- Georgian Nashville to Atlanta

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 20, 2014 3:22 AM

Possibly what you may be looking for are Florida Sunbeam, coach via Southern RR, Ponce De Leon, Pullman via Southern RR., and Dixie Flagler, coach via L&N (NC&St.L).

If the Florida Sunbeam had been curtailed, another coach train on the Southern would have been available, but I don't know its name, if indeed it had one.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 5:33 PM

Well, thank you, Dave. You did do far more work than I did in answering the question, though.

In November of 1963, there were three ways of traveling through, overnight, between Cincinnati and Atlanta--two were all coach (one of these went beyond Atlanta, but we won't worry about that), and one was all Pullman (no through coach). What were the routes and the names of the trains?

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:48 PM

I'd say Diggesty is the winner, since he knew more than I did.   He corrected the winter-summer issue.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:25 PM

And the cars were handled on C&NW's Viking from 1933 to 1949.  The Mountaineer was off-and-on all-Pullman, sometimes ran by itself to Vancouver.  Winter-season Soo-Dominion was usually combined with CP's Dominion, the secondary train on the Toronto/Montreal-Vancouver run.   The Soo-Dominion was sometimes combined with the Winnipeger east of Glenwood.  Neither name was used for the through cars handled by the Winnipeger after 1961.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:40 AM

The summer train was the Mountaineer.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 8:58 AM

Correct train (winter name).  Summer name shared with B&M/MEC summer-only train. Cars were not handled on the Milwaukee.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 7:46 AM

OK,you are refering to SOO - CP service, and the summer train is the Soo-Dominion from Chicago to Vancouver via the Wisconsin Central between Chicago and tthe Twin Cities.  I could not find the name of the winter train.   The through cars were later handled by the Milwaukee between the Twin Cities and Chicago.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 6:56 AM

Since no one's biting I'll tack on some years and cities...

The trains ran from Chicago to the west coast over the owner's owned or leased rails from the 1920s to 1933, when the trains' origination switched to St. Paul, with through cars from Chicago handled by another railroad.  Through cars from Chicago ended in 1949.  Summer-Winter name switch continued until 1958, through operation over a direct route until 1961 using the former winter-only name, through cars summer-only via a slightly longer route until 1965.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, March 16, 2014 9:28 PM

rcdrye

This train, which operated under different names during the summer and winter, started out using a subsidiary to reach its eastern terminus.  Later it sent through cars there over a competing railroad, and finally cut back to its own hometown.

The train(s) I'm looking for were operated jointly by two railroads over a long period. The winter version's cars were handled in a similarly named train from a junction point in a small city to the western destination. In the final years of operation the summer name was dropped, and the cars were operated year round via a different junction in a more important city.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 13, 2014 8:00 PM

KCSfan
However, the American Royal was not a part of the Anniversary Fleet.

This is what I get for jumping in before checking my info.  Dubin's "Some Classic Trains" has a couple of pages on the matched cars built by Pullman (some rebuilt by CB&Q) for each train.

This train, which operated under different names during the summer and winter, started out using a subsidiary to reach its eastern terminus.  Later it sent through cars there over a competing railroad, and finally cut back to its own hometown.

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, March 13, 2014 4:17 PM

rcdrye

CB&Q, whose predecessor Aurora Branch RR opened in 1849 or 1850, had the Anniversary fleet of heavyweights before the Zephyrs.  I'm pretty sure the Aristocrat (Denver), Blackhawk (Twin Cities), Ak-Sar-Ben (Omaha/Lincoln) and the American Royal (Kansas City), some of which later got Zephyr status, were part of the Anniversary fleet. 

Bingo, Rob, light up your cigar and ask us a question. The Burlington and the first three trains you mentioned are correct. However, the American Royal was not a part of the Anniversary Fleet.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 13, 2014 1:55 PM

And, I did not even glance at the Burlington!Crying. The American Royal (overnight Chicago-Kansas City) did not exist until the Q had a more direct route into Kansas City.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 13, 2014 1:30 PM

CB&Q, whose predecessor Aurora Branch RR opened in 1849 or 1850, had the Anniversary fleet of heavyweights before the Zephyrs.  I'm pretty sure the Aristocrat (Denver), Blackhawk (Twin Cities), Ak-Sar-Ben (Omaha/Lincoln) and the American Royal (Kansas City), some of which later got Zephyr status, were part of the Anniversary fleet. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 13, 2014 10:04 AM

I would say the Pennsylvania, which was chartered in 1846, but apparently did not begin construction until 1850--but I do not know where to look for information on the trains in the Fleet--the January, 1930, Guide, of course, has no such information.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, March 13, 2014 6:04 AM

narig01

WAG on the railroad. The Baltimore & Ohio

Rgds IGN

The B&O is a good logical guess but it's not the right railroad. The Anniversary Fleet was named in celebration of the road's 80th anniversary.

Mark

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Posted by narig01 on Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:20 AM
In 1930 what railroad inaugurated the Anniversary Fleet? What trains made up this "fleet" and what was the route of each?

Mark

WAG on the railroad. The Baltimore & Ohio

Rgds IGN
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, March 12, 2014 12:47 PM

In 1930 what railroad inaugurated the Anniversary Fleet? What trains made up this "fleet" and what was the route of each?

Mark

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 11:11 PM

Ed, your thread on the locomotives side has returned to your original topic. Sorry I derailed it, I hope you'll find what you are looking for there.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 3:15 PM

Rob:

Well, I think Mark should be the winner.

News from the Twin Cities----the Green Line (AKA Capitol Corridor) is scheduled to open late this spring. There has been on derailment on that line. I saw the photograph it looks like ice and snow in the flangeway that cause the front truck to derail.

Rob---do you plan to come to the Twin Cities this summer?  Three passenger routes are waiting for us to ride.

Ed Burns

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 9:50 AM

Ed, did you declare a winner?  I nominate Mark (even if he did include B&M...)

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, March 7, 2014 6:21 AM

B&M had some 2-6-6-2s that were used on the Hoosac line before it was electrified.

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Posted by rfpjohn on Friday, March 7, 2014 5:19 AM

 

Actually, the RF&P had three former C&O articulateds, 2-8-8-2s, at Potomac Yard for hump service. But as I wrote this, I remembered they were not Mallets!

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, March 6, 2014 7:07 PM

Ed, there are over a hundred of them. Here's my list of just those beginning with A and B.

AC&Y. AGS, AT&N, Alton, Ann Arbor, AB&C, A&StAB, ACL, Bangor & Arrostook, B&M, BR&P, BA&P. I'll leave it to someone else to finish the list.

Mark

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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, March 6, 2014 6:20 PM

WOW:

My original questions about Mallet (Malley's) got hijacked with questions about compounding versus other types of Malley;s.

So I will ask what Class 1's did not have Malley's (in any form)? I believe that the RFP, CEI, CNW, CGW?, and MSTL were some of the roads.

Ed Burns

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, March 6, 2014 12:54 PM

I look forward to your question so fire away Ed.

Mark

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