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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 9:07 AM

One of the specialty cars built for the never-operated Chessie streamliner had a feature not tried before on a train.  The failure of this feature during trial runs foretold the demise of the planned "Chessie".

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 8:15 AM

Two functions at the C&O station, splitting and combining Washington and Newport News sections AND engine change.   West of Charlottesville, generally 4-8-4 Greenbriars, east Pacifics or Hudsons.

Southern  (sleepers):

Jacksonvile, Fla

Raleigh, NC

C&O  (sleepers)

Toledo

New York City 

Louisville, KY

The Charlottesville and Albamarle Traction Co. had a single track line with passing sidings from the C&O station past Union Station and the U. of Va. campus to Fry Springs.   Ran single-truck cars like Birney's but not safety cars.  Don't know if they were one-man or two-man operated.

Next question is your RC  

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 6:19 AM

Found a couple more...

C&O

Detroit

Southern

Shreveport LA (via Chattanooga - sleeper only)

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 4:41 PM

The two stations in Charlottesville were Main St (C&O) and Union (former Southern/C&O joint, now Amtrak).  Main St was where the C&O split trains from the West for Washington and Richmond/Newport News.  C&O trains stopped at both stations.  I came up with a few more than 15. 

On Southern

Washington DC

New York City

Sometimes Boston (Amtrak 1972-1974)

Atlanta

Birmingham

Montgomery

Mobile

New Orleans

Los Angeles (sleeper only)

Chatanooga

Nashville

Memphis

Asheville

Augusta

On Cheapeake and Ohio and connections

Newport News

Cincinnati

Chicago (NYC)

St Louis (with B&O, late 1960s to 1971)

Hot Springs

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 12:10 PM

Charlottesville, VA, had two railroad stations during  the classic era, through WWII and until real deterioration of passenger service began.  What were these stations named, and what railroads had trains stopping at each station, and what functions (two) did one of these stations perform other than loading passengers and head-end matters, and what end-points could be reached from these stations without changing (1) coaches, and (2) Pullman sleepers.  (You must give at least 15 of the latter!)

Bonus:  Charlottesville once had a streetcar line.   What was the name of the company and what  were the route and end-points?   Can you describe the cars? 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 9:15 AM

Malone is the last junction.  Who or what rode the trains in either direction out of Malone in 1957(besides the crews) is a bit of a mystery to me.  The Rutland had given up carrying passengers on the Milk Train in 1953.  By 1957 the NYC trains would most likely have had a boiler GP7 or RS3, a baggage/express car and a single rider coach.  Maybe a 15 ft RPO on the train south of Malone.

Next question?

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 8:19 AM

Actually, Clear Lake Junction was the junction for both Saranac Lake and Lake Placid, and I believe the station you are asking for is Malone.    Clear Lake Jc. was close to Saranac Lake.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:44 AM

Sranac was the junction for Lake Placid (actually reached on D&H trackage rights).  You are on the right line, you just got off a little early.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 20, 2014 7:14 AM

Saranac Lake or the junction for Saranac Lake

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 20, 2014 6:34 AM

New York Central is right.  Utica is the first change place but MAssena is not the second, since NYC service via Massena was gone by 1957, and in any case was a CN connection.  BTW the connection worked Sunday thru Thursday is you didn't mind waiting 21 hours for the continuation.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 19, 2014 11:17 PM

NEW YORK CENTRAL, UTICA, MANASSES

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, January 19, 2014 6:50 PM

In 1957 it was still possible, if you were adventurous, to board a train in New York at 8:30 on Saturday night and ride on the trains of a single railroad company to Montreal Quebec. (The southbound trip worked daily except Sunday).  Name the stations where train changes were necessary.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:33 AM

rc, we are waiting for your question, and pardon my impatience.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, January 18, 2014 2:06 PM

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.    EXCEPT THAT I THINK IT IS CALLED FOREST HILLS, NOT ARBORWAY ON THE ORANGE LINE, THE THIRD RAIL LINE.  SOME DIESEL  COMMUTER TRAINS STOP NEARBY, OR DID, AND THAT STATION IS ALSO FOREST HILLS OR WAS.   AS PART OF THE BIG DIG MONEY RECEIVED, PROMISES WERE MADE   TO IMPROVE  PUBLIC TANSIT INCLUDING RESTORATION OF THE E GREEN LINE TO ARBORWAY.   SOME MERCHANTS OBJECED TO LOOSING STREET  PARKING, AND THE T USED THAT ALONG WITH  GENERAL DISFAVOR OF SHARING TRACK LANES WITH GENERAL TRAFFIC AS AN EXCUSE  TO NIX THE PROJECT.  THE RESULT IS WASTEFUL DUPLICATION OF THE ARBORWAY BUS AND THE HEATH STREET SUBWAY-SURFACE L;INE ALL THE SAY FROM HEATH STREETO ARLINGTON AND BOYLSTON STREETS AND BOSTON NOT GETTING FULL VALUE FROM THE INVESTMENT IN THE HUNTINGTON AVENUE SUBWAY.  ACELA AND NORTHEAST REGIONAL TRAINS ARE NOW UNDER WIRE NEARBY, NOT STOPPING OF COURSE

IN THE CLASSIC ERA, THE ARBORWAY STATION SAW SUBWA-SURFACE SERVICE TO PARK STREET, AND STREETCAR SERVICE TO CHARLES RIVER LOOP, DEDHAM LINE, CLEARY SQUARE, HYDE   PARK, AND MATTAPAN VIA CUMMINGS HIGHWAY. AND ALSO UNDER THE ELEVATED TO EGGLESTON.   

NEXT QUESTION?

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 18, 2014 8:03 AM

It sounds like Boston's Arborway area.  The "E" Green Line has been cut back to Heath Circle, and the Arborway Orange Line station is on a different place than the old one.  The one-time Arborway carhouse was also near the end of the "E" branch.

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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, January 17, 2014 10:50 PM

I'd like to say part of the TTC system, but maybe Boston? Can't find anything.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, January 17, 2014 4:22 AM

More hints.  An extensive carhouse was in the area.   Now there is a bus garage.  Rail service on the third rail operation nearby stops at an interchange station with a different name -but a name somehow relaated as to kind.  The current electric rail service that employs overhead wire technology does not stop in the area.  The line for which the loop and station were built still operates but was shortened to what was a short-turn loop, and on weekends may still be shortened further, although there were protests against this meassure.

.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, January 17, 2014 12:37 AM

Hint:  In the classic era there were seven streetcar or light  rail lines terminating at or near the location and third rail elecric service nearby.   This latter still exists,but on a  new alignment along with new overhed wire service that does not and could not possibly use the new streetcar loop and station that is used only bues now.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 16, 2014 4:48 AM

My question, as part of general civic improvements, a beautiful streetcar or light rail terminal has been constructed with new girder rail in a loop, a platform slightly above sidewalk level for level boarding with low-floor cars, a shelter, and benches.  But it is only served by a bus line (or bus lines), and there is a gap between the new rails and the rails of the operating overhead wire powered system, and wire has not been installed on the new (now more than several years old) construction.  At one time the operating authority promised restoration of rail service to this location, but has stated it has not any intenition now of fulfilling this commmitment.

Name the line, what if anything it does now, and the operating authoroity.   If you can, give the history, optional.   If you can name all trolley lines (streetcar and light rail) that served this location during WWII, optonal.  If you can, again optional, give the operating authorities general policy that opposes restoration of service.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:47 AM

daveklepper

OK, but I am correct in saying they were lavatories.   Do I get to ask the next question?   Or what else is needed?   Now the question could remain were they exclusively for the four sections at that end of the car or were they for use by any of the passengers in that car?   If the doors faced the center aisle, what would prevent any passenger from using them?   Or did a car of this type always run at the front or rear of the train with a door closing the aisle fo the four specific sections and their lavatories?    But that is not realistic if the men's and ladies' rooms were at ends of the car, opposite ends.

Dave, I will say that you did finally answer the question, using  a question. Yes, it is apparent from the diagram that each of the lavatories was for the exclusive use of the occupant(s) of a particular section. Thus, you did not have to wait for other people to make room for you in the public lavatory. Despite the well-known disadvantage of the arrangement in the well-known roomettes, the roomettes had an advantage over the public sections: it was not necessary to go out into the aisle to reach your private facilities.

Incidentally, the inner sanctums in the lavatories are called "saloons."

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 3:32 AM

OK, but I am correct in saying they were lavatories.   Do I get to ask the next question?   Or what else is needed?   Now the question could remain were they exclusively for the four sections at that end of the car or were they for use by any of the passengers in that car?   If the doors faced the center aisle, what would prevent any passenger from using them?   Or did a car of this type always run at the front or rear of the train with a door closing the aisle fo the four specific sections and their lavatories?    But that is not realistic if the men's and ladies' rooms were at ends of the car, opposite ends.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 10:35 PM

Ed, I'm sorry, but I cannot help you. The only book I have with lightweight floor plans is Wayner's book.

Johnny

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Posted by NP Eddie on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 5:25 PM

Johnny:

Do you have a floor plan for the Silver Chateau and Silver Veranda? Wayner's "Car Names, Numbers, and Consists" does not have plans for any of the 1956 DZ cars.

Ed Burns

enburns@Comcast.net

763-234-9306 cell

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 2:42 PM

No shower; back in those days, all the showers were in public cars, such as lounge cars. No difference between the fixtures in these rooms and the same fixtures in the men's and women's lavatories. If it had a shower, the room would have been a three-quarter bathroom.

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 1:46 PM

OK, so they were toilets with pull-down sinks that could fold up out of the way when wanted to sit on the toilet, like most roomettes had if my memory is correct.  Or were they showers?  Or all three facilities in one compact room, shower, toilet, sink.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 12:55 PM

KCSfan

Deggesty

No, they were not for men only, and, according to the floor plan, there were no urinals in them; indeed, you could call them half-baths.

Think about their position in the car, with respect to the private sections.

You've got me back to thinking about their connection to the sections at the women's lounge end of the car. If there was just one "annex" I might think it contained a small basin for bathing a baby but I can't imagine there was a need for four such facilities.

Mark

Four half-baths; four private sections.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 11:53 AM

I'm confused and maybe this has been mentioned before but did these annexes contain a toilet and a wash basin?

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 10:54 AM

Four private sections, each one is next to an annex.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 10:40 AM

Deggesty

No, they were not for men only, and, according to the floor plan, there were no urinals in them; indeed, you could call them half-baths.

Think about their position in the car, with respect to the private sections.

You've got me back to thinking about their connection to the sections at the women's lounge end of the car. If there was just one "annex" I might think it contained a small basin for bathing a baby but I can't imagine there was a need for four such facilities.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 10:13 AM

The physical layout almost suggests "immigrant cars" that had mini kitchens.

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