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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by NP Eddie on Friday, October 17, 2014 9:57 AM

Rob:

You are correct. The names were in the "City of" series.

Next question to you.

Ed Burns

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, October 17, 2014 6:29 AM

I think you're looking for the Nickel Plate.  The Nickel Plate's cars had names but were identified by Pullman by their numbers, since they had "City of" names that in some cases conflicted with other Pullman cars.

SP and NP cars all had numbers only, except those SP cars in Golden State assignment, which had names or numbers, depending on the year.    In later years many railroads created numbers for sleeping cars for accounting purposes but Pullman continued to identify the cars by name.  Many Pullman tourist sleepers, and some special equipment, were identified by number.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, October 16, 2014 10:51 PM

This sounds like the NP, which, along with the Q and the SP&S, owned 18 each 6 roomette, 8 duplex roomette, 1 compartment, 3 double bedroom cars, and 6 each 1 compartment, 4 double bedrooms buffet observation cars that were built for the North Coast Limited. These cars later had their names removed, and were reported solely by their numbers. Later, NP received 7 each 6 roomette, 8 duplex roomette, 4 double bedroom cars, and 10 each 4 roomette, 4 double bedroom, 24-seat dome, 4 duplex single rooms (under the dome).

The SP also had sleepers that were identified by number--but never carried names. These were 10 roomette, 6 double bedroom cars (both for end-of-train service and for throughout the consist), 4 bedroom, 4 compartment, 2 drawing room cars, 22 roomettes, and 12 double bedroom; the NP provided 2 of the 10-6's.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:31 PM

Rob and all:

One railroad had Pullman sleeping cars named, but this railroad and Pullman used numbers to identify their cars.

What was the railroad and what type of accommodations did those cars have?

Good luck!

Ed Burns

Happily retired NP-BN-BNSF

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:22 PM

Mark got the train, Ed got the railroad.  Both of you guys ask great questions.

SP also bought some other hospital cars for camp service.  Rock Island supplied heavyweights head-end cars painted red and silver for Golden State service, though later baggage-dorm 820 from the stillborn Golden Rocket was assigned.  In the early 1950s the RI consists sported a round-end sleeper observation, while SP's had a mid-train lounge and blunt-end sleepers.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:11 PM

Rob:

"Car Names, Numbers, and Consists", page 121, lists two rebuilt Army hospital cars (89357 and 89387) to baggage dormitory cars 3401 and 3402 for Golden State service.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 4:53 PM

The Alaska cars were also fairly well known.  KCSFan is currently closest. 

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:48 AM

NP Eddie

My further thought is why did the US Government built so many hospital cars and what were the Bureau Mines safety cars built for. 

Ed Burns 

Ed during WW2 there was a great need for the hospital cars. Whole trains of them would bring wounded servicemen from the Atlantic and Pacific ports to military and VA hospitals throughout the US.

Mark

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Posted by NP Eddie on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:50 AM

Rob:

"Car Names, Numbers, Consists" is a great book.

Page 211 lists cars for "AuRoRa" train which includes former US Army Hospital Cars rebuilt for Alaska Railroad service and US Bureau of Mines safety cars.

My further thought is why did the US Government built so many hospital cars and what were the Bureau Mines safety cars built for. 

Ed Burns 

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:14 AM

Sounds like something the Katy might have done but none of their trains ran way out west. Also none of the the MKT/Frisco trains required five trainsets so that rules them out. Could the cars have been part of the Rock Island's contribution to the consist of the Golden State Limited?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, October 14, 2014 8:32 PM

A train with a more colorful name...

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, October 14, 2014 4:18 PM

SP&S - Western Star. Just a guess.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, October 14, 2014 1:06 PM

The train was "out west", and the ex-Hospital cars were part of two of five consists.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 14, 2014 11:35 AM

SOME CANDIDATES COME TO MIND, THE BANGOR AND AROOSTICK WITH THE MAINE CENTRAL, THE MAINE CENTRAL WITH THE BOSTON AND MAINE, THE CENTRAL OF NEW JERSEY WITH THE READING FOR THE WALL STREET, AND THE WABASH FOR UP OR THE CHICAGO AND NORTHWESTER WITH THE UP .

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 13, 2014 8:42 PM

The Monon is well known for rebuilding WWII hospital cars into home grown streamliners.  One other railroad rebuilt a pair of them as part of its contribution to a colorful name train operated with another railroad.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Monday, October 13, 2014 9:31 AM

Rob:

My fingers make mistakes!

The X-GN SD-9's were 698 and 699. They became BN 6125 and 6126.

I used the word "two" and it should have been "too".

The reference to the GE switchers "GN" should have been "GE".

My mistake.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, October 12, 2014 5:33 PM

Rob:

You win and are very close!!

The lowest number was #1, which was on three locomotives. The first one was an X-CBQ 44 tonner, the second one was an X-GN NW12 that was part of a four switch engine rebuild program (5, 14, and 19 were the other numbers) [only four were rebuilt because the program was two costly] and the last one was for the BN's executive train (X-NP units).

You are correct on the two X-NP FT's.

GN had only two SD-9's with DB. They were purchased for use on the Cascade Division for a shortline that also used SP SD-9's.

BN 442 (SW1000) was involved in an accident in Chicago and was rebuilt without the cab.  

You are good!! I missed the 2600 and 2601.

The two demonstrators were GE and were 1100 and 1101. I saw them at Northtown. Del Grosso's BN locomotive book states that their GN model was B-B-272-272. Both were returned to GN in February, 1984.

A big congratulations to you and the next question is yours.

Ed Burns

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, October 12, 2014 2:33 PM

Despite the date creep (Current forum date is Oct 12, 1964...) here's my stab at it.

Lowest VO660 7 (ex NP 651)

Highest E9A 9995 (ex CB&Q 9995)

FTs 798 and 799 from the NP

GN had two DB equipped SD9s out of 27.  All 108 of CB&Q's had DBs.

Can't find the demonstrator switch engines.

GP B units 600-604 (No 603, some were second of same number)

GP38B 600B later 2600

GP38-2B 2601

U30CB 4500

SD40-2B 7500-7502 (7500 originally 900B)

SD40B 7600

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Posted by NP Eddie on Saturday, October 4, 2014 3:59 PM

ALL:

My mistake--there are five questions.

Have fun.

Ed Burns

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Posted by NP Eddie on Saturday, October 4, 2014 10:01 AM

ALL:

This is a three part question about BN locomotives. The reference is mainly from DelGross's "Locomotives of the Burlington Northern 1970-1995 and my personal observations at Northtown Diesel Shop.

1. What were the lowest and highest numbers applied to BN locomotives?

2. Which railroad contributed two FT's to the BN?

3. Which railroad contributed two and only two DB equipped SD-9's to the BN?

4. A company loaned the BN two switch engines for evaluation. What were their BN numbers and what was the company?

5. The BN had 11 locomotives that were rebuilt into cabless units. What were their numbers (if changed) as rebuilt?

Ed Burns

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, October 3, 2014 10:05 AM

NP Eddie

Rob and all:

What happened to the BN locomotive questions that I posted to this forum?

Ed Burns

Just post 'em again...

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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:34 PM

Rob and all:

What happened to the BN locomotive questions that I posted to this forum?

Ed Burns

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 2, 2014 9:44 AM

next question please?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, September 23, 2014 11:36 AM

Wallace Abbey says that MILW power worked through most of the time, but DSS&A would occasionally supply its own power.  Since the only non-RDC passenger power the DSS&A had were RS-1s, I assume they got the call, but I've never seen a photo of one on the Copper Country Limited (I think only 103-106 had boilers).  After the Soo merger an FP7 or GP9 would have been possible (but again, no photos...).  DSS&A and Soo Crews operated north of Champion even with MILW power. MILW power assigned was usually EMD E or FP units.

Swapped end date of Winnipeger with Laker - in any case 1963 was last through operation to pacific coast.  Soo 1966 timetable lists passenger accomodations westbound only on line to Portal.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Tuesday, September 23, 2014 9:51 AM

Rob:

Did the SOO provide crews on the "Copper Country" train or did the MILW crews handle the train through to its destination?  I assume that the MILW power went through and the SOO did not furnish any passenger equipment?

Ed Burns

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Posted by NP Eddie on Tuesday, September 23, 2014 9:39 AM

Rob:

A slight correction-the Winnipeg train was taken off in 1967. I worked a night job at NP's Lower Yard and saw the southbound train only once.

The SOO was not a passenger railroad and thus did not participate in the streamlining of the 1930, 1940, or 1950 era. All their cars wee rebuilt at their Shoreham (Minneapolis) Shops. In fact their passenger cars still had hooks on chains to use between their cars. In other words, they did not have tightlock couplers.

The SOO had only one lightweight passenger car and that was a Pullman build business car "Minneapolis". I read that Pullman built the shell and the SOO built the inside of the car. That car was sold to the GN in 1965 and (to the best of my knowledge) it still operates on the BNSF.

Ed Burns

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, September 22, 2014 12:27 PM

Ed has the correct answer.  Soo's St Paul - Portal ND train pair carried through (railroad-operated) sleepers for CP's Dominion via Moose Jaw Saskatchewan.  During the summer it was known as the Mountaineer and often carried large numbers of Pullman cars borrowed from other railroads.  By 1959 the year-round through sleeper was gone, down to a through coach to Moose Jaw, and 1960 was the last year of summer through Pullmans.  The through coach came off in 1960, though a CP train still met the now nameless 13 and 14 at Portal.  In December 1963, the service was reduced to a stove-heated combine carried in through freights 26 and 29, a service which lasted until 1965.

Through service with the Dominion lasted until summer 1963 via Winnipeg and the Winnipeger.  The Winnipeger itself was discontinued in 1965.  Soo's last passenger operation other than passenger-carrying cabooses was the Milwaukee's Copper Country Limited over the ex-DSS&A from Champion to Houghton Michigan, which ended in March 1968.  Passenger-carrying cabooses lasted into the 1980s on a couple of former Wisconsin Central and old Soo routes.

Soo Line and CP both participated in a few Pullman lines (which also gave them access to the Pool), but sleepers were otherwise railroad-operated. 

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Posted by NP Eddie on Monday, September 22, 2014 9:31 AM

Rob:

Are you looking for the SOO Mountaineer as the SOO operated their own sleepers, however Pullman sleepers with tour groups ran on their train. I don't know how the SOO got the cars from Chicago to St. Paul.

Eventually the Mountaineer became a nameless train from St. Paul to Portal, ND.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 22, 2014 9:08 AM

Deluth or Superior - Winnipeg?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, September 22, 2014 6:18 AM

The train pair I'm looking for made part of a route that had cars from the midwest to the pacific coast.  By the end of the 1950s through international service was restricted to a coach that ran from the eastern endpoint to a mid-size city where connections could be made to the coast.  Summer service included through Pullmans, most of which came from off-line.  In 1960, the through cars were re-routed by way of a larger city, and year-round service dropped to the coach, which came off at the end of 1960, though the connecting train at the border continued to run.

If it's any help, neither of the railroads involved were known for Pullman sleepers.

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