It would like to comment on the arch-bar Cincinnati trucks under the C&LE lightweight interurban cars. I made at least five trips on these cars in LVT service, probably seven. I can tell you they rode smoothly, even on somewhat deteriorated track. And they were quiet and fast. The arch=bar trucks were not like typical freight-car archbars. I think the difference was some kind of stabilizer bar or bars between truck frames independent of the bolster itself. And next to being in the left front seat of an Electroliner on the North Shore, there was no better electric railfan experience than riding the Liberty Bell, either looking over the motorman's shoulder in one of the two front leather coach seats or sitting backward in a the parlor sofa looking out the back.
The ex-Indiana car 1030 on LVT had its General Steel drop-equalizer trucks replaced by the Cincinnati trucks to accommodate the third rail shoes for running through to 69th Street on the P&W.
Take it , Paul. The radiators next to the cab was a by-product of the generator being at the "wrong" end.
Paul and Rob, both of your answers are correct. I'll let you decide who gets the next one.
The backward arrangement actually referred to the location of the main generator at the opposite end of the prime mover from the cab. This resulted in an excessive amount of conduit for the control wiring and was corrected at the next model change (the S-series)
Don't know why they were set up "cab-forward" except maybe for visibility. I'm not even sure that all of them were.
Guys who know a lot more say 176 were built in 4 models (HH600 and HH900, then HH660 and HH1000.
Lots of different owners from B&M to SP. New Haven seems to have had the largest fleet (with the cab-in-front setup)
Rob:
What was the reasoning for having the controls backward (compared to other models)?
This sounds like an SP cab-forward steam locomotive.
Also, which railroad(s) owned those locomotives?
Ed Burns
Cab was the "F" end (front) so control stand was on the wrong side when operating long hood forward. The radiators were also next to the cab, unlike later ALCO (and other mfgs' ) later offerings.
rcdrye The ride on the Cincinnati Arch Bar trucks must have been very exciting.
Especially on interurban track...
Alco High Hood (HH) switchers were "backward" compared to other switchers, including later Alcos. In what ways?
With the GE PC-12 control the C&LE cars had some field control, and were expected to be able to do 80 MPH on rickety track. I suppose 90 was possible, but 97 seems to me to be fictional. The ride on the Cincinnati Arch Bar trucks must have been very exciting.
C&LE's schedules called for quite a bit of 60 MPH running on largely unsignalled single track. After a couple of spectacular wrecks and C&LE's resulting financial failure, the red devils were sold to CRANDIC and Lehigh Valley Transit.
Indiana RR's High Speed cars (by ACF) had Westinghouse HLF controls and were also good for 80 MPH.
You've nailed it Northwest and the next question is yours. According to one source the speed of the Red Devil was 97 mph but it doesn't specify if that was a top speed or the average over the length of the race. In any event I doubt that figure as I believe 90 mph was the top speed a Red Devil was capable of.
Matk
C&LE, Cincinnati Car Red Devil.
(Although I think that the plane was going to lose, no matter what...)
rcdrye Must have been a little chilly on cold Iowa mornings or maybe WCF&N had a small boiler...
Must have been a little chilly on cold Iowa mornings or maybe WCF&N had a small boiler...
I agree. It was 60 miles between Cedar Rapids and Waterloo and the running time on the WCF&N was about two hours so there must have been some way to heat the sleeper in the winter. The interurban assigned to this run was very likely was equipped with a small boiler.
In 1930 an interurban raced an airplane and won! What type car was this and what railroad staged the race?
Mark
KCSfan Waterloo,IA. The CNW ran a Chicago - Waterloo sleeper which ran between Cedar Rapids and Waterloo on the Waterloo Cedar Falls and Northern. Mark
Waterloo,IA. The CNW ran a Chicago - Waterloo sleeper which ran between Cedar Rapids and Waterloo on the Waterloo Cedar Falls and Northern.
Correct! Must have been a little chilly on cold Iowa mornings, or maybe WCF&N had a small boiler...
Not Springfield, or even Illinois. Bit to the west.
The Illinois Terminal to Springfield, IL I think the car came from Chicago, but I do not know the interchange point.
This "Steam Road Trolley" carried a Pullman off of the C&NW to a city more associated with the IC until the early 1930s.
This was a tricky question.
The X-CBQ Omaha Region moved to Denver within a year or two after the merger. I suspect that the new coal traffic warranted a Vice-President close to the coal fields.
The Portland Region had only one division, the Portland Division (which was mainly the former SPS). That was consolidated into the Seattle Region and was renamed the Seattle-Portland Region.
I would have to do research when the regions were replaced with divisions.
Next question to you.
Six initial regions
Chicago
Twin Cities
Billings
Omaha
Portland
Seattle
I'm not sure what you're referring to in the regions changes. Most of the 3/3/70 ETTs aren't labelled by region.
ALL:
A second hint---when you use the BN-BNSF Historical Society web site, click on "Employee Timetables" for the two answers.
Hi Zephyr Overland:
My hint:
Got to the website of the "BN-BNSF Historical Society" for the answers.
I have many stories about the BN merger that I can share.
Ed - can you give us a clue? There has been no response in over a week.
This question is about the 1970 BN merger.
As of that merger six regions were created with some having between one and four divisions as part of the region.
Name the six regions as of the 1970 merger. Which one moved with a year of the merger and was re-named. Also which region was eliminated and re-named?
Lots of fun after the 1970 merger! I bid a job on the X-GN side and gained a lot of knowledge of that side of the railroad. I was the first X-NP yard clerk on X-GN property. Needless to say, I was shunned for a while.
rcdrye Ed answered the question as I asked it.
Ed answered the question as I asked it.
KCSfan Twin Star Rocket and Sam Houston Zephyr. Mark
Twin Star Rocket and Sam Houston Zephyr.
The Twin Star Rocket was preceded by the Texas Rocket, whose name was later reused on a K.C. - Dallas train. Both trains were shown in RI and FW&D schedules. For a short time at least, the Sam Houston Zephyr ran with the 9900 train.
You have the place (Dallas-Houston) correct. Care to name the Zephyr and Rocket(s)?
The Burlington-Rock Island was built as the Trinity and Brazos Valley. Part of the line, and later all of it, became the Joint Texas Division(s) of the Fort Worth and Denver and CRI&P. After RI's abandonment FW&D, and later BN (and BNSF) owned the entire line.
I believe you are looking for the Burlington-Rock Island. The train ran between Dallas and Houston. The General Manager's jobs rotated between the RI and CBQ. If my memory serves me correctly, didn't the BN purchase the RI's interest in the line and it is or was called the Joint Texas Division?
Burlington and Rock Island operated the Zephyr Rocket between the Twin Cities and St. Louis from the 1940s into the 1960s. The two railroads cooperated in another way involving both Zephyrs and Rockets. Where did this cooperation take place?
rcdrye has the correct answer, and is awarded the next question.
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