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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, September 21, 2014 9:14 PM

The New York Central's own route into Montreal, not using the D&H or Rutland

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, September 21, 2014 12:51 PM

Still looking north, just not to Winnipeg.  The route replaced by the mixed service was part of a fairly popular seasonal route.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, September 20, 2014 4:47 PM

The Aztek Eagle on the Texas pacific and the NdeM?

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, September 20, 2014 4:43 PM

You are correct about the CERA photo regarding journals and pedestals, but there are CERA photos that clearly show cincinnati arch-bar frames without any drop equalizer bar.   look through all the photos.  maybe i missed one with the gsc commonwealth trucks, but the only frames that were clearly shown were the cincinnati archbar frames.   The cincinnati trucks may have been modified for one reason or another again after the 3rd rail shoes were removed, if they were removed.   Even after 1030 had the commonwealth trucks equipped with third rail shoes, assuming it did, it is perfectly possible that these two trucks saw service under a Cincinnati cr while 1030 ran with cincinnati trucks, depending on overhaul and maintenance requirements. 

apologies for problems with the caps key

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, September 18, 2014 2:54 PM

The CERA photo shows journals and pedestals that are very different from the trucks on 1030 now.  Look behind the step well at the pedestal.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:45 PM

The CERA website has photos of LVT 1030 in service with archbar trucks.   Regarding the NRHS Convention photo, the third rail wood mounting beam puts the truck frame into shadow and one cannot really tell what kiind of truck was used in 1941.   BUT!  The Cincinnati archbar was quite different than a freight archbar, which may confuse you.  The top member was horizontal or nearly so, not like the tent-like shape of the freight-car upper member.  

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:14 AM

Drop a little south and you have it.  The Winnipeger lasted too long to end up in this thread.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:05 AM

I'm going to say Soo Line to and from Winnipeg.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:44 AM

Rutland dropped passenger service in 1953.  This railroad had other passenger trains as late as 1968.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:36 AM

Rutland?  to and from Montreal?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:19 AM

In the early 1960s, this railroad replaced a former international train with a combine on through freight trains.

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 10:12 PM

rcdrye, it's your question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:10 PM

1030 did get coach seats.  Some of the parlor seats on it now are originals recovered from storage, some ex-C&LE.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 4:23 PM

The initial substitution that was told me may have been just to get the car into service to replace the wrecked CL&E car, with the original trucks restored when the right third rail equipment was available and installed.  The trucks and motors were interchangeable, as a C&LE car was tested with Commonwealth trucks on IR before the High-Speeds were purchased.

If memory is correct, when 1030 was reseated, it  became all-coach.  But most of the coach-parlors on LVT stayed that way until the end.   I think Crandic got mostly coach-baggage without parlor seats.

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, September 15, 2014 5:27 PM

Rob gets it. Fortunately, one has survived.

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Posted by rfpjohn on Monday, September 15, 2014 11:09 AM
More added comments: I actually got to ride one or both of the rebuilds back in 1973 or 74 when they were working out of Pavonia Yard in Camden, NJ. They were occasionally used on the Pemberton Secondary local freights as well as in the coach yard at 30th street in Philly. If I ever figure out how to scan, I'll post a couple of pictures from those days.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, September 15, 2014 10:03 AM

A couple of added comments and corrections.  Only two of NYC's LRS1200's were re-powered with 567 engines.  They lasted into the Penn Central era and carried PC numbers 8062-8063.

The ATSF H12-44TS's were leased by Amtrak for a while after May 1, 1971 and were in terminal service at Chicago Union Station.  They were retired in 1973 (?) and were cut up at Industrial Maintenance Service in Hammond IN.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, September 15, 2014 9:39 AM

To answer NorthWest's question AT&SF got FM's three H-12-44TS units which were H-12-44 switchers with a short hood and a boiler.  Used in Chicago at Dearborn Station and Archer Avenue coach yards, they were out of a job in May 1971.  AT&SF's other Dearborn switchers were Alco RS1s.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, September 15, 2014 9:37 AM

NYC's Lima LRS1200s had boilers.  They were used where steam lines weren't available, or for transfer runs around Chicago like the coast-to-coast sleepers that had to be transferred from LaSalle to Dearborn or Union (or even C&NW).  They were tried on a variety of local services, but RS3s or boiler GP7s got most of that work.  The re-engining started after some were assigned to Cleveland after CUT's electrics were shut down.  Collinswood shops on the east side of Cleveland redid these, and also some Baldwins and Erie-Built FMs

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Posted by NP Eddie on Monday, September 15, 2014 9:22 AM

Rob:

Did the Lima switchers have steam boilers? If not, I assume that the moves were made quickly and depot steam lines were coupled to the passenger cars.

 

Ed Burns

 

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, September 15, 2014 9:07 AM

Santa Fe received this builder's entire steam boiler equipped switcher production.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, September 15, 2014 6:58 AM

The Lima switchers were mostly assigned to terminal operations in cities like Chicago and Buffalo, though at least one operated for a time on the Adirondack Division.  Most of them were re-engined with EMD 567s well before the PC merger, and at least a couple of them lasted until Conrail.

The width of the Commonwealth trucks isn't much different from the arch bars.  P&W had similar trucks on some of its equipment, as did other third rail lines.  The 1030 was the lone LVT Liberty Bell car with HLF control, and even today has Westinghouse motors (All of the Cincinnati's had GE PC-12 with GE 706A1 motors, like CRANDIC 113).  The big value to the scrapper was that the Commonwealth trucks weighed a lot more than the arch bars. A photo of 1030 in Allentown during an NRHS excursion isn't conclusive, but the third rail gear is different from the C&LE cars, and the journal covers match the ones in photos of the car as IRR 55.

http://ceramembersblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/scan01.jpg

An interesting footnote is that as Indiana RR' 55 the car had been outfitted with parlor seating for use as Receiver Bowman Elder's business car. LVT left the parlor seats in the car for a while at no extra fare, later put more conventional seating in to raise capacity, but kept the parlor seats stored, so some of them came to the museum with the car, along with some from the parlor sections of scrapped Cincinnati cars.

NorthWest - your question!

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 15, 2014 4:07 AM

That is interesting about the Lima passenger terminal switchers.  Where were they assigned?

I don't see anything specific about 1030 having Commonwealth trucks in LVT operation.   The scrapper could have simply scrapped the Cincinnati arch bars and substituted the others.  But maybe I did not look at the right place.  In any case, i think my explanation does make sense.

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:14 PM

Lima. LRS 1200, or a stretched LS1200 for commuter or terminal switching duties. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:31 PM

The late Ben Minnich was involved in acquiring 1030, among many other cars now at Seashore Trolley Museum.

From http://www.trolleymuseum.org/collection/browse.php?id=01030IPA 

"When the Museum bought Car 1030, the junkman had already sold its trucks. By coincidence, those provided as replacements were from the very Cincinnati & Lake Erie Railway car that took part in the famous airplane race of 1930."

New question:

This minority diesel builder's entire passenger-equipped locomotive output went to the New York Central.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, September 13, 2014 3:09 PM

I think you are not correct about LVT 1030 keeping its Commonwealth trucks.  It may be that the trucks were swapped several times.  In 1949, LVT stopped running through to 69th Street and had passengers change to P&W "Bullets" at Norristown.  At that time, they may have swapped back to the original trucks, because they had far less wheel wear and there was no longer any need for the third rail shoes.  The overhead wire did extend the full length of the Norristown single-track, single-platform station.  I had been told about the original swap earlier.  

what we need is a good side-view photo of 1030 taken before 1949.

It is also possible that they figured out a way of applying the shoes to the Commonwealth trucks without creating clearance problems earlier than 1949.   We need a side-view photograph.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, September 13, 2014 10:13 AM

We have a winner here.  Rcdrye gets to ask the next question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, September 12, 2014 7:04 PM

Front radiator shutters.  All other Alco switchers had side shutters (including the HH series, even if they were at the wrong end...).  Some MLW switchers also had front shutters.  Oliver Iron Mining also had two pairs of cow/calf S6s.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, September 12, 2014 12:05 PM

Since we're discussing Alco switchers, let's try this one on for size.  Aside from having a 251 engine instead of a 539, name a feature of the Alco S5 and S6 that distinguished it from other Alco switchers?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, September 12, 2014 8:12 AM

daveklepper

The ex-Indiana car 1030 on LVT had its General Steel drop-equalizer trucks replaced by the Cincinnati trucks to accommodate the third rail shoes for running through to 69th Street on the P&W.

Actually 1030 kept its Commonwealth trucks to the end of LVT service.  When the car was acquired by Seashore from LVT's scrapper, the trucks had already been removed.  The scrapper substituted the Cincinnati arch bars.  The car is operational, but reserved to special service.

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