You are on the right Seaboard, the East Coast, but Richmond never had trackless trolleys, converted directly from streetcars to gas and diesel buses.
However, just before WWII, some of the most modern of the streetcars of the capitol city in question did find a new home in Richmond and in Washington, DC, while others stayed home and ran through WWII and a few years after.
The two trains, the night train and the WWII day train were discussed in this forum previously.
I do not believe that there ever were any through trains that did not stop in Richmond, although perhaps the PRR-RF&P-ACL-FEC Florida Special did not show it as a passenger stop and only changed crews in some timetables.
Between end point, the overnight train was the only train on this end-point route for all its time of operation, except for WWII and one or two years after when its equipment as the day train was added.
But lots of through trains ran through Richmond to the same end-points
And there were even more trains on the route of the overnighter (which at one time was all-Pullman) that got combined at the capitol city for the last two years of the overnighter of the question.
I would make a guess that you're referring to Richmond VA, and two of the RRs involved were the PRR and RF&P. After that it gets pretty fuzzy to me.
but most through trains do not change engines there today. Possibly two each way still do.
The station bypassed by the wartime day train is also for a city that is a State Capitol, with an extensive streetcar system that had links to streetcars and quasi-interurbans over a vast area. Some streetcars lasted until a few years after WWII. Most were replaced by trolleybuses, and that network grew to be very extensive, with one line an interurban line, connecting to a neighboring small city, with its own two local TT lines, and with its first letter the same as that of the State Capitol. An investor saw the possibility of scrapping the TT's, showing profits, then renting diesel buses and when the operating expenses would be to high, unloading on the city, which is what happened, with the wire bringing cash, the newer TT's sold to an operated by a neighboring city and the older TT's converted to diesel buses with fumes and difficult steering.
should i give up on this and ask another question? Before giving up I will give one more hint. Between the farthest end-points of this train, three railroads were involved, and three changes of locomotives for four different locomotives employed. Drop one railroad, locomotive and engine change for the second northern end-point, and then add one locomotive for the third without adding another railroad. On the railroad where two locomotives were employed, the change was mandatory for all train passing through.
were those two names actually in the public timetable?
regarding my question, three railroads were involved in the operation of the train, although some equipment ran on only two of them, but on occasion four locomotives each way.
The south end was one well-known destination, but the north end had three destinations, only one a state capitol. That station no longer exists and its replacement has no passenger rail service today, although there are plans for future restoration. That specific equipment reversed direction en route, but the equipment to the other two destinations did not.
On the wartime day train, the sleepers ran as parlors.
daveklepper o f course kc has yet to confirm the frankfort flyer, but doesn't anyone know what two trains the question is referring to, the overnighter that existed well before wwii and contninued some years afterward.
o f course kc has yet to confirm the frankfort flyer, but doesn't anyone know what two trains the question is referring to, the overnighter that existed well before wwii and contninued some years afterward.
Dave, if you care to look back, you'll see that I said the name of the train was the Frankfort Fireball. You got the Ann Arbor and the train's route and were so close to naming it I declared you the winner of that question.
Mark
big hint; in its last two years the overnighter was combined with another overnight train south of the station that the wwii day train skipped!
now why did skipping this station save lots of time?
I will assume the Frankfort Flyer is the correct answer and now ask a new question.
During WWII, a popular overnight full-service train could not handle the traffic demand, so involved railroads simply used the equipment for a day train sending the equipment back. The day train was able to reduce its end-to-end times considerably by skippig one important station. Name the train, railroads and route, end points serfved. Which station was this, and why was the time reduced considerably?
frankfort flyer?
KCSfan Good job, Dave. You've got the railroad and the route though it's Frankfort not Frankford. Now just name the train and you'll be our winner. In one direction it was known as the Toledo Torpedo but I'm looking for the name given to the westbound (or northbound) train. Mark
Good job, Dave. You've got the railroad and the route though it's Frankfort not Frankford. Now just name the train and you'll be our winner. In one direction it was known as the Toledo Torpedo but I'm looking for the name given to the westbound (or northbound) train.
Dave I'm going to declare you the winner since you got the RR and the route. The train was known as the Frankfort Fireball. I'm not sure this was an official or only a semi official name. Various Ann Arbor websites refer to it and the Toledo Torpedo by those names. The Jerry Lee Lewis connection I mentioned was his signature song, Great Balls of Fire. Looking forward to your next question.
The AnnArbor beteen Toledo and Frankford, MI?
The end points of this train's route were both port cities on large bodies of water.
mc stood for maine central the one passenger train that the mc intended to keep was the interline with b and m to and from boston, forget which name, possibly pine tree limited, which the mc ran between portland and bangor. but when the b and m substituted budd cars, the mc applied for discontinuance. budd cars would be a new maiintenance technology for the mc, and they foresaw the b and m sending them budd cars with defects which they wouldl have to fix to get them reading for the return trip. so the mc exited the passenger business completely. their losses were enough to move the icc. unlnike the b and m, the emc never owned a budd car. but the initial schedule of the flying yankee in 1936-1937 did have it running to bangor over thte mc.
Dave:
I have a question about the last paragraph in your November 3rd post.
Are you talking about the Michigan Central or another railroad? And why did that railroad disliked RDC's?
Ed Burns
Not a DM&IR train but keep guessing, Dave. In my prior post I indicated the train ran east-west. I don't have an ETT for this road but I think they may have used north-south as the timetable directions for this route.
The train may have been on the Deluth Messabe and Iron Ramge, with Deluth one terminal and the other Chisholm or someplace neargby, but I have been unable to locate the train names.
Good guess, Dave, but it wasn't the Newfy Bullet. The train I'm looking for had one name when running west and a totally different name when eastbound.
I am uncertain as to whether this is the train you are referring to, but certainly the "Newfy Bullet" meets that description exactly, Newfoundland Railroad, later CN, not a timetable name but one in very general use by its passengers and public in general. In fact, it may have been placed in the timetable with the CN demosntrating a sense of humor. 3'6" guage of course. EVen though an all-stops local, it was a full service train wtih an excellent dining car and section and room sleepers. Glad I rode it. St. John - Port Au Basque.
Not the Katy Flyer, Johnny. This railroad had far fewer passenger trains than did the MKT.
Mark, it sounds to me that you are referring to the Katy Flyer, which was, of course the MKT's train that, in March of 1953, had chair cars St. Louis-Oklahoma City, Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, and Denison-San Antonio via Ft.Worth, and sleepers Ft. Worth-San Antonio and Dallas-San Antonio--and no diner, but with meal stops.
Without looking it up, I believe that O. Henry mentioned this train in at least one of his stories set in Texas.
Johnny
wanswheel Probably no help, but Goodness Gracious, Roy Acuff sang about a Dallas bound Fireball Mail. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4VIOdzdHlM
Probably no help, but Goodness Gracious, Roy Acuff sang about a Dallas bound Fireball Mail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4VIOdzdHlM
No pun intended but you are on the right track. That's even better than the Jerry Lee Lewis connection I had referenced.
Some passengers on this train continued their journey by boat.
From its name you would think this was a fast train but it was nothing more than an all stops local on a railroad that never had much passenger service. However it might have been an inspiration to Jerry Lee Lewis. Name the train, the railroad and the route.
Mark, you certainly were up early this morning--or did you not get to bed last night? Yes, you have the details right. We could speak of another connotation for "hustler," but we won't go into that.
Dave, did you sleep late, and let Mark get ahead of you?
Mike, thanks for the article from Trains. I recognized the style as being that of Trains in the forties (I have two or three copies that I bought as back issues; I never saw the magazine until in April of 1952, and I have every issue since), and I was borne out by the last page of the article.
KCSfan Johnny, those would be the SP's Sunbeam and Hustler which ran between Houston and Dallas. Mark
Johnny, those would be the SP's Sunbeam and Hustler which ran between Houston and Dallas.
http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Files/PDF/Great%20Limiteds%20Online/GL130815/Sunbeam%20Leaving%20Dallas.pdf
right, and you got there first
Greenfield (Massachusetts) Recorder-Gazette, Saturday, September 3, 1966
Last Passenger Train
The Ambassador, Boston & Maine Railroad day train, made its last run through Greenfield Friday afternoon when service was halted between Springfield and Montreal to become part of the American transportation legend.
Montreal - Washington Train Runs At End
ST. ALBANS, Vt. (AP) - Vermont rail passenger service concludes today with the end of an historic train run that carried royalty and presidents during its 40 years of service between Montreal, New York and Washington.
The trains involved are the twice-daily Montrealer and Washingtonian which have operated between the major rail points for 40 years. The rest of Vemont's rail passenger service has been phased out in the last 10 years or so.
The end was foreshadowed by Interstate Commerce Commission authorization for the Boston & Maine Railroad to drop its share of through service.
The B&M hauls the cars from Springfield, Mass. to White River Junction, where the Central Vermont Railway picks up for the northern leg of the journey.
Without B&M connections, the Central Vermont said, it cannot continue its share of the service. Central Vermont is a subsidiary of Canadian National Railway. But it is intrastate in nature and doesn't require authorization to end its trains.
Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Calvin CooIidge, a Vermont native, all used the trains out of Washington as did British Prime Minister Winston Churchill when he went to Montreal following Washington talks on bombing of Pearl Harbor.
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