Trains.com

Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

856758 views
8197 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, July 13, 2014 8:00 AM

SN had third rail as well.  One of the two carriers I'm looking for did not have third rail on (or within 50 miles of) its own lines, though it merged into another line that got a little closer.  Maybe it will help if I mention that one of the services was locally known as the "bathtub train".

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 13, 2014 2:21 AM

Possibly Central California Traction and Sacramento Northern.   SN had the 3rd rail, so CCT added the shoes.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, July 12, 2014 3:43 PM

The carrier famous for freight operations painted five of its box motors, better known under another name, dark green to match the partner.  The partner in turn, narrowed the ends of five of ITS box motors (resulting in "Windsplitters") for a specific clearance problem while adding third rail shoes for power pickup.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:35 AM

This interurban, famous for certain types of freight operations, operated joint services from 1922 to 1946 with a connecting carrier that were considerably less famous.  Some of the features of the joint service included painting box motors in the other carier's colors, and the other carrier equipping its box motors to deal with different electrical pickup requirements.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, July 10, 2014 7:34 AM

rcdrye

Nevada Central between Austin and Battle Mountain (junction with SP).  Source of Ward Kimball's Emma Nevada.

Bingo! That's the other one. Looking forward to your next question.

Mark

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:12 AM

Nevada Central between Austin and Battle Mountain (junction with SP).  Source of Ward Kimball's Emma Nevada.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, July 9, 2014 6:59 PM

rcdrye

Nevada-California-Oregon

No cigar yet, Rob. The other road operated solely in Nevada.

Mark

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:41 AM

Nevada-California-Oregon

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:25 AM

rcdrye

Nevada County  Narrow Gauge

That's one of them, Rob. The Nevada County Narrow Gauge RR ran for 21 miles from its connection with the SP at Colfax, CA to Nevada City, CA. The other road I'm looking for also connected with the SP.

Mark

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 6:41 PM

Nevada County  Narrow Gauge

California and Nevada

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:54 PM

It's been over two weeks since there's been any activity on this thread so I'm going to throw out a question to keep it from dying.

Until the early 1940's there were two 3' gauge railroads both of whose names contained the name of the same state. One was located in, and derived its name from, that state but the other did not. What were these two NG roads?

Mark

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:34 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The railroad in question is the Wabash Pittsburgh Terminal, later absorbed into P&WV.  It was part of George Gould's scheme to build a true transcon involving Western Maryland, Nickel Plate, Missouri Pacific, Rio Grande and Western Pacific.

Quite correct.  The WPT Terminal occupied most of what is now Point Park in Pittsburgh.  It remained in place as P&WV's access to its freight house after passenger service ended in 1931.  When the bridge over the Monongahela burned in 1946, all of the P&WV's downtown trackage was abandoned.  The bridge and terminal building came down in the early 1950s.  In addition to the roads named above, the Philadelphia and Western was part of Gould's empire, with a westward extension planned to parallel the PRR and meet up with either the WM or the WPT.  The Gould empire collapsed in 1908, at least in part because of the cost of building the WP.

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, June 21, 2014 10:14 AM

The railroad in question is the Wabash Pittsburgh Terminal, later absorbed into P&WV.  It was part of George Gould's scheme to build a true transcon involving Western Maryland, Nickel Plate, Missouri Pacific, Rio Grande and Western Pacific.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:42 AM

in 1909, the "Milwaukee", was still the "St. Paul".  The railroad and station I'm looking for combine the name of a "fallen flag", the name of the city, and a common designation for a city station.

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • 1,002 posts
Posted by NP Eddie on Friday, June 20, 2014 3:41 PM

Rob and all:

Are you looking for the MILW Railroad?

As information, I saw the NS "Pennsylvania" locomotive on westbound  oil empties in Coon Rapids, MN.

 

Ed Burns

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Friday, June 20, 2014 11:35 AM

The railroad involved was part of a transcontinental scheme.  The bankruptcy was partly related to the cost of completing the westernmost component.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, June 18, 2014 3:42 PM

KCSfan

The W&W is correct. The PRR converted it to standard gauge in 1944. The rails were finally taken up by Conrail in 1978. The line had such sharp curves that the center drivers of its Moguls had to be blind to keep them from derailing.

Mark 

The Alco road switchers were painted in Pennsy colors, and may never have actually run on the W&W.

 

Both the large downtown station and the railroad that shared its name were overbuilt for the traffic they generated in the early days, with the ralroad entering bankruptcy only four years after opening.  The station's tracks, which were built to handle trains on the owning line to connections for the west, ended up handling only local trains until 1931.  The station and its associated bridge remained until 1946, when the bridge burned.  The station was torn down in the 1950sin one of the earlier examples of urban renewal.  The city was a large generator of railroad traffic, but this railroad skirted its edge and only got the traffic fom connections. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, June 18, 2014 1:32 PM

The W&W is correct. The PRR converted it to standard gauge in 1944. The rails were finally taken up by Conrail in 1978. The line had such sharp curves that the center drivers of its Moguls had to be blind to keep them from derailing.

Mark 

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 5,017 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, June 18, 2014 1:14 PM

Waynesburg and Washington in southwest PA.  The corporate shell later owned either RS27s or C425s.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, June 18, 2014 11:35 AM

As late as 1944, the Pennsylvania RR operated a 28 mile, 3' gauge branch. What was the route of this narrow gauge line and what was its name prior to the PRR acquiring it? 

Mark

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, June 16, 2014 7:35 PM

ZephyrOverland

The Chicago and North Western and New York Central had at least two pairs of trains that utilized similar names, but were not used concurrently.

The 2 names, destinations and approximate time periods the names were used.....

I'm going to end this question since Mark came up with two train names that would technically qualify for the question.

The names I was looking for were:

Pacemaker (C&NW 1934; NYC 1939-1960's)

World's Fair Special (C&NW 1934; NYC 1890's, early 1960's)

The C&NW Pacemaker was a sort of a prelude leading up to The "400" while their World's Fair Special was a Minneapolis-Weyville train that connected to one of their Rochester trains.

Mark, we await your question.....

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, June 14, 2014 11:22 PM

daveklepper

Amtrak revived the name of the NY Central's Lake Shore Limited, which started as a Cleveland - Chicago train and soon became a NY - Chicago train, possibly at times with a Boston section, and without checking, was discontiniued in the '30s.   I suspect the CNW also had one, but I have not been able thus far to determine when and where. 

Sorry Dave, the Lake Shore Limited is not one of the names I'm looking for.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, June 14, 2014 4:12 PM

Amtrak revived the name of the NY Central's Lake Shore Limited, which started as a Cleveland - Chicago train and soon became a NY - Chicago train, possibly at times with a Boston section, and without checking, was discontiniued in the '30s.   I suspect the CNW also had one, but I have not been able thus far to determine when and where. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, June 14, 2014 2:08 PM

KCSfan

Also each of the two roads had a Chicago Express which isn't a unique name at all so I doubt that's what you're looking for. The CNW's Chicago Express ran between Omaha and Chicago and the other was  a joint NYC/CP train running between Montreal and Chicago. I Believe it ran over the Central's Michigan Central between Chi and Detroit and then the CASO northeast of Detroit to a junction with the CP.

Mark

Mark,

Again, technically, Chicago Express would qualify but it isn't the name I'm looking for.

Here's another hint - one of the names is usually associated with NYC.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, June 14, 2014 6:33 AM

Also each of the two roads had a Chicago Express which isn't a unique name at all so I doubt that's what you're looking for. The CNW's Chicago Express ran between Omaha and Chicago and the other was  a joint NYC/CP train running between Montreal and Chicago. I Believe it ran over the Central's Michigan Central between Chi and Detroit and then the CASO northeast of Detroit to a junction with the CP.

Mark

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Friday, June 13, 2014 2:02 PM

KCSfan

I believe one of the pairs was named the Fast Mail. NYC No. 9, the Fast Mail ran between Buffalo and Chicago in the 1940's and the CNW Fast Mail ran between Cedar Rapids and Chicago.

Mark

That would qualify as one of the answers, but the two I'm looking for were more unique.  They also both had an Atlantic Express and Pacific Express.

Hint - the C&NW names existed in the same time frame.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Friday, June 13, 2014 1:07 PM

I believe one of the pairs was named the Fast Mail. NYC No. 9, the Fast Mail ran between Buffalo and Chicago in the 1940's and the CNW Fast Mail ran between Cedar Rapids and Chicago.

Mark

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, June 12, 2014 9:57 PM

The Chicago and North Western and New York Central had at least two pairs of trains that utilized similar names, but were not used concurrently.

The 2 names, destinations and approximate time periods the names were used.....

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:25 AM

Look forward to your question, ZO

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:59 AM
ZO, you have the one that I was thinking about;;the one that the Southern ran from Danville in the morning and back from Cincinnati in the afternoon.

Johnny

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter