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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, June 9, 2014 12:08 PM

KCSfan

Deggesty

Where did the Blue Grass Special run?

The only Bluegrass that I know of was a Monon train that ran between Chicago and Louisville. But AFAIK that train was called just the Bluegrass not the Bluegrass Special so it may not be the train Johnny is asking about.

Mark

There were several Blue Grass Specials:

Louisville Southern  - Louisville-Lexington

PRR - Chicago-Louisville

SR - Cincinnati-Lexington-Danville

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 8, 2014 9:02 PM

Right, Mark, it definitely was another train on another road. It is interesting to me that it left its origin about 2:30 in the morning and took about five hours to reach its destination. As I recall, it started home about 4:30 in the afternoon, and again took about five hours to get home (I am in Wilmington, N.C., right now, and cannot check the times)

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, June 8, 2014 11:54 AM

Deggesty

Where did the Blue Grass Special run?

I missed it at the time but looking back I see where Johnny asked this question.

The only Bluegrass that I know of was a Monon train that ran between Chicago and Louisville. But AFAIK that train was called just the Bluegrass not the Bluegrass Special so it may not be the train Johnny is asking about.

Mark

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Posted by Gunneral on Tuesday, June 3, 2014 10:27 PM
How about the "El Capitan" that was a streamliner too but it didn`t have the usual Santa Fe "Chief" name. Gunneral in NZ!
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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, June 3, 2014 10:29 AM

SPV, not APV.

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, June 3, 2014 10:28 AM

Mark, the APV atlas with Appalachia shows it have been narrow gauge when it was abandoned. Apparently there was not much business, and it was well handled by one mixed train a day each way--so, why move the rail?

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, June 3, 2014 6:01 AM

Deggesty

50.4 miles from Claremont Wharf, on the James River, to James River Jct., 3.7 miles east of Emporia; apparently there was a third running rail coming out of Emporia since the mixed train ran from Emporia to Claremont Wharf and back. Apparently this line was never widened to standard gauge, but was abandoned.

You've nailed it Johnny. I haven't been able to confirm it but you're probably right about the line never being widened before it was abandoned.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 3, 2014 4:10 AM

Southern railroads were genrally built to five-foot gauge, not 4'-8.5".  Over one weekend around 1875,, don't remember the exact date, they all converted to 4'-9".  This did not pose a problem in interchanging standard gauge equipment.   Generally, only one rail was moved.  I believe the reason for the extra half inch was that otherwise the new outer spike hole in an existing tie would be too close to the old inside hole for the structural integraty of the tie.  In most cases eventually tie and rail replacement allowed the final move to standard gauge.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Monday, June 2, 2014 6:50 PM

A 1921 OG (page 33) shows 50 miles of 3' with a balance of 4' 8 1/2" and 4' 9". I am curious where the 4' 9" gauge was!

 

Ed Burns

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, June 2, 2014 11:52 AM

50.4 miles from Claremont Wharf, on the James River, to James River Jct., 3.7 miles east of Emporia; apparently there was a third running rail coming out of Emporia since the mixed train ran from Emporia to Claremont Wharf and back. Apparently this line was never widened to standard gauge, but was abandoned.

 

Where did the Blue Grass Special run?

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, June 2, 2014 6:50 AM

I'll stick with the SR for my next question.

In the early 1930's the Southern Railway System included 50 miles of 3' gauge trackage. Where was this narrow gauge located and what became of it?

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 1, 2014 5:55 PM

Mark, you have the right train and the right car.

I do not know, offhand, any other instance of a car with the same name as the train it was assigned to.

I just thought of the instance which Conductor Moedinger reported, of a man high in the Philadelphia Pullman office who knew what cars would be assigned any particular train in his dominion--the man asked the conductor WHY was certain car on one of the trains the conductor was working on.

Incidentally, on my last trip I rode the same consist from Salt Lake City to Chicago and from Sacramento to Salt Lake City, but not in the same sleeper.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, June 1, 2014 12:19 PM

Deggesty

What train carried a 5 DB Buffet Lounge Observation that had the same name as the train?

Johnny, I think the car was the Royal Palm which ran between Cincinnati and Jacksonville in the SR's train of the same name.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, May 31, 2014 9:42 PM

Sorry to be so long in proposed a new question.

What train carried a 5 DB Buffet Lounge Observation that had the same name as the train?

Wednesday morning, I am leaving on a two week trip (starting and ending by train, with driving in between).

Johnny

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, May 30, 2014 10:43 AM

Deggesty

 The M-10000 had an articulated set of cars.

M-10001, too, a little bit longer train

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA6xfYeHH3Y

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, May 30, 2014 6:28 AM

UP and SP were nearly tied for the number of articulated cars.  On the breakup of joint ownership UP ended up with all of the articulated parts of the early Streamliners.  SP had the largest collection of articulated cars used with ordinary cars, and operated some of them into the 1970s, even selling a couple of pairs to Amtrak which used them on the original San Joaquin. In addition to the cars for the Daylights SP also had articulated pairs built for the Challenger and the Californian.  The three unit diner-lounge sets for the Cascade were the only postwar units.

Man of the Daylight-painted cars that were built with fluted side panels were rebult with flat stainless steel panels in the 1950s, which, with the red SP stripe across the letterboard, earned them the local name "Tomato Cans".

All yours, Johnny!

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:04 PM

The original City of Los Angeles, City of Portland, and City of Denver were primarily articulated sets; the Challenger had coach pairs. Apparently the C&NW was a joint owner with the UP. The original City of San Francisco, which also was a primarily articulated set, was a three road operation, with the SP handling it west of Ogden. The M-10000 had an articulated set of cars.

The SP had articulated car sets in service on the (Morning) Daylight, the Noon Daylight, the San Joaquin Daylight, the Lark, the Cascade, the Shasta Daylight, and the Sunbeam. Some of these were simply coach pairs, others were lounge-diner-kitchen/dormitory or coffee shop sets. 

Johnny

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:43 PM

These two railroads that cooperated on some runs had jointly owned articulated train sets and cars.  One of them also had trainsets (and some car sets) that were jointly owned with a third railroad, while the other had a large number of two and three car articulated sets.  What are the railroads, and examples of the cars or trains. 

 

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Posted by NorthWest on Wednesday, May 28, 2014 9:02 PM

Rob, it is your question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, May 27, 2014 3:31 AM

The Broadmore is a hotel in Colorado Springs, have stayed there and done consulting work fo them, all some 50 years ago.  Cerainly by now most of the systems i designed for their flexible conference center have been replaced by more modern ones, but the acoustical design probably remains.

Posted a few yeas ago, rode the mixed from Wichita to Herendon in the through Colorado Eagle Pullman, then ticketed in the roomette to Colorado Springs, but the porter didn't wake me up in time, hurridly dressed, conductor stopped the train at the Palmer Lake tower, operator going off duty drove me back to Colorado Springs.

Leonard Bernstein, of Rio Grande Zephyr fame, retired in Colorado Springs with his second wife Dorothy.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, May 26, 2014 9:36 PM

From Wikipedia (and I will vouch for its veracity here): "

The Battle of San Jacinto, fought on April 21, 1836, in present-day Harris County, Texas, was the decisive battle of the Texas Revolution. Led by General Sam Houston, the Texian Army engaged and defeated GeneralAntonio López de Santa Anna's Mexican army in a fight that lasted just 18 minutes. About 630 of the Mexican soldiers were killed and 730 captured, while only nine Texans died.[3]

Santa Anna, the President of Mexico, was captured the following day and held as a prisoner of war. Three weeks later, he signed the peace treaty that dictated that the Mexican army leave the region, paving the way for theRepublic of Texas to become an independent country. These treaties did not specifically recognize Texas as a sovereign nation, but stipulated that Santa Anna was to lobby for such recognition in Mexico City. Sam Houston became a national celebrity, and the Texans' rallying cries, "Remember the Alamo!" and "Remember Goliad!" became etched into Texas history and legend."

This battle was a final response to the defeat in San Antonio.

Johnny

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, May 26, 2014 8:25 PM

NP Eddie

Rob:

I have a question about two names applied to the above cars: "The Broadmore" and "Rampart Range". what were they named for?

Wikipedia says  that Buffalo Bayou is in Houston and San Jacinto was a battle.

Thanks,

Ed Burns

The Broadmoor is or was a famous hotel in Colorado Springs or thereabouts.  I'm sure Rampart Range is a part of the Rockies.  The cars assigned to the Twin Star Rocket ran from the Twin Cities to Houston, Texas so the Texas themed names make sense.  The battle of San Jacinto was not too far from what's now Houston during the Texas war for independence in 1836 (Remember the Alamo?)

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Posted by NP Eddie on Monday, May 26, 2014 7:13 PM

Rob:

I have a question about two names applied to the above cars: "The Broadmore" and "Rampart Range". what were they named for?

Wikipedia says  that Buffalo Bayou is in Houston and San Jacinto was a battle.

Thanks,

Ed Burns

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, May 26, 2014 4:11 PM

Yes, your question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, May 26, 2014 4:08 PM

Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton S8 built 3/1952 for Medford Corporation (Baldwin SN 75481, MedCo road # 8).  Baldwin 608NA engine (non-turbo), Westinghouse electricals.

Later sold to Magma Arizona as their #8.  Now back in Oregon with the Southern Oregon Chapter NRHS.

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, May 26, 2014 10:50 AM

Only one Baldwin switcher was ever built with dynamic brakes. Name the model, customer, and road number.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, May 26, 2014 6:41 AM

Northwest rings the bell.  The Rochester Subway ran largely in the abandoned bed of the Erie Canal, running left-handed to allow for center platforms. Interurbans also used the Subway.  Freight operations were on the third track using a homebuilt box-on-flat motor.  Passenger service by interurbans ended in the 1930s, but Subway operation continued until 1956, with freight operation lasting a month longer than passenger operation.  A remnant was taken over by the B&O ond operated into the 1980s.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, May 26, 2014 2:25 AM

I think Northwesst has got the answer.

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, May 25, 2014 4:26 PM

Rochester Subway, Rochester NY?

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, May 25, 2014 4:03 PM

Since no one wants to try this one...

Rock Island received two series of 8 rmt 6DBR cars in 1954, all built to plan 4195 in lot 6944. Five were for the Golden State (Golden Horizon, Golden Journey, Golden Meadow, Golden Spire and Golden Tower).  Seven were built for Rocky Mountan Rocket and Twin Star Rocket  service (Air Force Academy, The Broadmoor, Rampart Range, Turquoise Sky, Lake Nokomis, Buffalo Bayou and San Jacinto).

The cars that would be confused with prewar cars were 10 rmt 5 DBR cars built for the Erie (Pride of Youngstown, Spirit of Youngstown)

 

So changing gears a bit:  This rapid transit line in a medium size city featured both subway and surface operation, ran left handed on its two passenger tracks and featured a third freight track. 

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