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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 1:13 PM

The Norfolk-Chicago "Mountaineer" ran under Amtrak from 1975-1977 before getting truncated, combined or whatever and renamed the "Hilltopper".

The Soo-CPR summer-only "Mountaineer" ran from Chicago to Vancouver B.C. via Portal ND from the mid-1920's to 1960.  The Chicago-St.Paul section was usually operated over Soo's own Wisconsin Central line, but sometimes cars were carried on C&NW's "Viking".  The "Mountaineer" often ran with a wild collection of cars borrowed from other trains, the main reason (aside from an interline car CHI-Sault Ste Marie with the CMStP&P) Soo Line had a contract with Pullman.  Other Soo trains operated with Soo Line (or CPR) owned sleepers.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 10:30 AM

narig01

This is a WAG, How about Olympian? All I could think of. Thx IGN

One other thing while I was net surfing trying to find something that fit, I see that Grand Trunk Western ran a Pacific Limited from Toronto to Chicago at some point. I did not see any dates. Maybe someone else can look. Thx IGN

 

The Olympian would not be it.  Also, I would steer away from Toronto.

 

More clues -

The non-Amtrak summer season train that used this name was originally handled by two railroads, but eventually was partially rerouted via a third railroad.  Eventually, this train's route was shortened, which would have disqualifyed it from this question, but for a few years through cars would be handled by other trains of the third road.  In the last few years of its existance, this trains through cars would mostly be handled by other trains.

As for the Amtrak train using this name: even though the existance of this train and the heavyweight train of the same name were separated by several decades, for some reason Amtrak used the name graphic from the heavyweight train in its timetables during this trains existance.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 3:28 AM

But can Toronto be considered an East Coast port?

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 2:08 AM
One other thing while I was net surfing trying to find something that fit, I see that Grand Trunk Western ran a Pacific Limited from Toronto to Chicago at some point. I did not see any dates. Maybe someone else can look. Thx IGN
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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 12:39 AM
This is a WAG, How about Olympian? All I could think of. Thx IGN
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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 11:46 AM

daveklepper

Did Amtrak ever have a train names the Continental or Continental Limited?   Even briefly?

 

Nope...

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 11:26 AM

Did Amtrak ever have a train names the Continental or Continental Limited?   Even briefly?

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 10:42 AM

rcdrye

It certainly doesn't work in the Amtrak era...  But NYC&HR/LS&MS's 1893 Exposition Flyer terminated on the other side of the Chicago River from CB&Q-(D&SL)D&RGW-WP's Exposition Flyer.

 

Good try, but one of the trains I'm looking for was a short-lived Amtrak train.  See my reply to Dave's latest try for another clue.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 10:40 AM

daveklepper

The CN Flagship The Dominion is well known, Montreal - Vancouver.   Might there once have been a Montreal - Halifax Dominion?  CP or CN?   Probably CP.

 

Dave,

There was no Halifax section of the Dominion, but you stumbled on a clue - one of the endpoints is in Canada.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 8:49 AM

It certainly doesn't work in the Amtrak era...  But NYC&HR/LS&MS's 1893 Exposition Flyer terminated on the other side of the Chicago River from CB&Q-(D&SL)D&RGW-WP's Exposition Flyer.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 6:16 AM

The CN Flagship The Dominion is well known, Montreal - Vancouver.   Might there once have been a Montreal - Halifax Dominion?  CP or CN?   Probably CP.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, March 16, 2015 3:21 PM

KCSfan

 

ZephyrOverland
 
As for the question - some time ago I posted a question of a possible coast to coast trip using trains of the same name.  That time the answer was the Columbian of the B&O/RDG/CNJ and Milwaukee Road, and this was physically possible for a number of years.

This time I'm looking for another trip from the Atlantic to the Pacific using trains of the same name.  This time this trip would not have been possible because one was a primarily heavyweight train and the other one was an Amtrak train.  Name the train(s), the RR's and the route this impossible trip would have taken. 

 

The B&O's Columbian ran between Washington and Chicago. With a change of trains in Chicago one could continue on to Seattle/Tacoma on the Milw Road's Columbian. The only Amtrak train that ran coast to coast was the Sunset Limited.

Mark

 

Mark,

If you look at my original question, I already mentioned the Columbian as the answer for an earlier version of this question.  I'm looking for another name.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, March 16, 2015 3:18 PM

FlyingCrow

I'd also like to point out the fact that this is supposed to be >50 years and that leaves Amtrak out of the discussion.  

 

Sorry Buck, Amtrak will be part of this discussion, as the train I'm looking for existed early in the company's history.  The 50 year limit is a guideline.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, March 16, 2015 3:13 PM

ZephyrOverland

This time I'm looking for another trip from the Atlantic to the Pacific using trains of the same name.  This time this trip would not have been possible because one was a primarily heavyweight train and the other one was an Amtrak train.  Name the train(s), the RR's and the route this impossible trip would have taken. 

The B&O's Columbian ran between Washington and Chicago. With a change of trains in Chicago one could continue on to Seattle/Tacoma on the Milw Road's Columbian. The only Amtrak train that ran coast to coast was the Sunset Limited.

Mark

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, March 16, 2015 2:55 PM

I'd also like to point out the fact that this is supposed to be >50 years and that leaves Amtrak out of the discussion.  

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, March 16, 2015 2:45 PM

daveklepper

 ZephyrOverland

 

daveklepper

Amtrak ran the National Limited from NY to KC.   I believe at one time there was a Sante Fe Chicago - LA National Limited that of course stopped in Kansas City.

 

Dave, I don't believe that Santa Fe had a National Limited.  Could you give me a time frame of the existance of this train so I can check on this?

 

There was none.   The correct answer is the New York Central's Southwestern Limited pre-Amtrak NYCity - St. Louis and Amtrak's renamed Super Chief 1974-1984 when it became the Southwestern Chief, Chi-LA.

The NYCetral's Southwestern did at one time have through sleepers to Texas points, but none to the West Coast.

 

Sorry Dave, still no cigar....

Amtrak's Super Chief was renamed the Southwest Limited (not Southwestern).  Also, as rcdrye pointed out, how do you account for the St. Louis-Kansas City segment, which neither train traveled on?

The hypothetical route that the train name was used on covered the Atlantic coast through the Pacific coast.

Another hint: one of the trains did not operate year-round.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, March 16, 2015 2:28 PM

Kind of a long walk from St. Louis to Kansas City... 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 16, 2015 2:09 PM

ZephyrOverland

 

 
daveklepper

Amtrak ran the National Limited from NY to KC.   I believe at one time there was a Sante Fe Chicago - LA National Limited that of course stopped in Kansas City.

 

 

 

Dave, I don't believe that Santa Fe had a National Limited.  Could you give me a time frame of the existance of this train so I can check on this?

 

 

There was none.   The correct answer is the New York Central's Southwestern Limited pre-Amtrak NYCity - St. Louis and Amtrak's renamed Super Chief 1974-1984 when it became the Southwestern Chief, Chi-LA.

The NYCetral's Southwestern did at one time have through sleepers to Texas points, but none to the West Coast.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, March 16, 2015 10:10 AM

daveklepper

Amtrak ran the National Limited from NY to KC.   I believe at one time there was a Sante Fe Chicago - LA National Limited that of course stopped in Kansas City.

 

Dave, I don't believe that Santa Fe had a National Limited.  Could you give me a time frame of the existance of this train so I can check on this?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 16, 2015 1:30 AM

Amtrak ran the National Limited from NY to KC.   I believe at one time there was a Sante Fe Chicago - LA National Limited that of course stopped in Kansas City.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, March 15, 2015 8:55 PM

wanswheel
Too easy, Myron? Of course you're up!
 

Yes it was, especially since I'm a fan of the maistro.

On a side note, during my undergraduate days, I met Frank Miller, who at the time was giving a chamber concert at my university.  At one time he performed with the NBC Symphony under Toscanini and was part of this transcontinental tour.

 

As for the question - some time ago I posted a question of a possible coast to coast trip using trains of the same name.  That time the answer was the Columbian of the B&O/RDG/CNJ and Milwaukee Road, and this was physically possible for a number of years.

This time I'm looking for another trip from the Atlantic to the Pacific using trains of the same name.  This time this trip would not have been possible because one was a primarily heavyweight train and the other one was an Amtrak train.  Name the train(s), the RR's and the route this impossible trip would have taken.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, March 15, 2015 6:37 PM

ALL:

Does anyone have a record of the consist of this train?

Ed Burns

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Posted by wanswheel on Sunday, March 15, 2015 2:10 PM
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Posted by rfpjohn on Sunday, March 15, 2015 12:08 PM

Wonder if he hooped up music on the fly?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 15, 2015 9:36 AM

Toscannini is correct, but the Eurgene Ormandy fans should not feel bad.   The very last passenger traini that left Philadelphia's Broad Street Station was an Eurgene Ormandy - Philadelphia Orchestra special, and a brass quartet performed on the back platform of the obs as the train left the station.  Possibly an arrangement of Taps?   Anyone know?

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, March 15, 2015 9:24 AM

wanswheel
In the spring of 1950, RCA Victor chartered a special train from New York to Richmond, Atlanta, New Orleans, Houston, Austin, Dallas, Pasadena, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Denver, St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Washington, Baltimore and Philadelphia.  What was the conductor’s name?
 

Auturo Toscanini and the NBC Symphony Orchestra.  The observation car featured a keystone-shaped drumhead with "Toscanini Tour" emblazened in large letters surrounded with the RCA Victor and NBC logos.

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, March 15, 2015 2:54 AM

Eugene Ormondy. Just a guess however.

Mark

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Posted by wanswheel on Sunday, March 15, 2015 2:07 AM

The conductor whose name is known led an orchestra.

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Posted by Dragoman on Saturday, March 14, 2015 9:41 PM
ONE conductor for the entire trip?? Wow!

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