CRI&P from Belleveille KS (junction of Chicago and KC lines) to Denver (430.9 miles). last 90 (89.9) miles on UP from Limon CO. Fast overnight train was the Rocky Mountain Rocket (7 and 8) from Chicago. Competitors of overnight train are UP's City of Denver and CB&Q's Denver Zephyr, of which I elect the C of D as the automotive entry as it was styled by GM stylists (looks like a 1930's Chevy Coupe)
I can't find the RI train number as it had been discontinued by my earliest OG, from 1957.
That faster, overnight, train had competition from two other trains which provided overnight service. The original locomotives for one of them were unique in that they presented an appearance borrowed from the automotive industry.
Johnny
The railroad also operated a faster train that ran overnight, through the eastern terminal of this train, from an even larger city to this train's western terminal..
A. You are in the wrong area; the train is not even close to Michigan.
B. It is not the U.P.
C. You were close yesterday..
The UP train still doesn't quite fit, so I'm going to propose another that doesn't quite fit. The Duluth South Shore and Atlantic ran around 430 miles from Sault Ste. Marie Michigan to Duluth Minnesota, of which the last 90 or so were on Northern Pacific rails from Marengo Jct. Wisconsin. In Sault Ste. Marie (The Soo) connections were available from Montreal and Toronto via Sudbury Ontario. In Champion Michigan the Milwaukee's Copper Country Limited was handed over to the DSS&A to get to Houghton and Calumet Michigan. I can't come up with a southwesterly connection, but to the southeast from Soo Jct. the line to St. Ignace connected with the car ferry Chief Wawatam via which connections to Detroit and Grand Rapids were possible, but without through cars.
CSSHEGEWISCH I'm not sure that it was UP 69/369 & 370/70. My copies of the Guide showed it as a straight passenger train from Kansas City to Salina and as a mixed west of Salina to Denver.
I'm not sure that it was UP 69/369 & 370/70. My copies of the Guide showed it as a straight passenger train from Kansas City to Salina and as a mixed west of Salina to Denver.
rcdrye I'm working this one as hard as I can. CRI&P had 90 miles of UP trackage rights to get to Denver, but ran Rockets, not mixed trains. And I haven't found a line with enough miles sporting a mixed train.
I'm working this one as hard as I can. CRI&P had 90 miles of UP trackage rights to get to Denver, but ran Rockets, not mixed trains. And I haven't found a line with enough miles sporting a mixed train.
Well, the UP did run a mixed train...we called it the Pigs N People...of sorts between KC and Denver. It didn't leave from KCUS, but from UP's James Street facility and was usually 3 E's and two streamlined coaches. #369&370.
They'd run like a scorched cat out to J City, then tack on 100 freight cars and crawl to Cheyenne Wells, doing switching along the way. (You haven't lived until you've switched an elevator with a passenger train). Somewhere , maybe Cheyenne Wells; maybe Limon, they'd drop the freight for the local to snatch later, and take off at full speed again for Denver.
That's as far as my thinking goes.
Try March of 1953.
A little help here... Could you give us a year or at least a decade?
What road operated a through coach between two points that were about 431 miles apart--and the westernmost 90 miles were in a mixed train that ran on trackage rights to reach a major city? At the eastern end, it connected from/to two trains, each one of which had an important city as its eastern terminus; one of the two trains continued southwest to a junction with another road, but did not go past that junction. Name the road, the host road, the junction points, and the major cities.
It was a "heavywight" trying to pretend to be a streamlined sleeper.
I am puzzled; Webster's Third International Dictionary gives two definitions of "wight"--a man, or a preternatural creature such as a fairy or witch. Which kind of heavywight did the train carry? I usually think of a "wight" as being an undesirable creature to have around.
I first wrote "usually" as usua;;y."
Give me a little time, and I will come up with another question.
Correct. The Dakota 400 carried the heavywight until the C&NW dropped "City" trains, then it got a prewar "American" 6 sec 6 Rmt 4 DBR. Photos from 1959 show a "Northern" 16 DupRmt 3DBR 1Cpt car, but I'm not sure if that was regularly assigned. The Dakota 400 ran from Chicago to Rapid City from 1950-1953, to Huron until 1960.
How about the Dakota "400"? It carried a 12 section, 2 bedroom sleeper between Mankato and Rapid City. The train was advertised as being a streamliner--but I doubt that the sleeper was streamlined.
It looks like the SA&AP's first bankruptcy was in 1890 since most of the luxury equipment that led to the bankruptcy had platforms on both ends. Jay Gould couldn't resist buying the car "Electric" for his use as a Western Union director. SP got control after the bankruptcy, was forced to divest in 1903, regained control in 1924 and merged it into the T&NO in 1934.
This train was the only "400" to carry sleeping cars on a regular basis.
Concerning the SAUsaGe--it did not exist when the guide I referred to was published. Railroad Names, by William D. Edson, shows that it came into existence in February of 1912, and its predecessor was the Crystal City & Uvalde, which ran from Carrizo Springs to Uvalde Junction (completely abandoned now). It apparently was incorporated in February of 1912--and it was absorbed into the MoP in 1956. The February, 1915, Guide shows it with through service San Antonio-Corpus Christi, Uvalde Junction-Crystal City, and San Antonio-Carrizo Springs. It really sprang into action in those three years. There may have been other predecessor roads, but the book I have does not show them.
Well done.
The Galveston, Harrisburg & San Antonio's route btween Houston and San Antonio is 210 miles long--and the westbound Sunset took 7:10 and the eastbound took 8:00--2-3 hours faster than Davy ran. The stop in Kenedy, where the Corpus Christi car was added/taken off, was half an hour westbound and fifteen minutes eastbound; the San Antonio-Corpus Christi car sat for more than three hours in each direction--giving Houston-Corpus Christi (no through car) service. I wonder if the cowcatchers on the engines had much business.
The "Train that is always on time" was the "Davy Crockett" of the San Antonio and Aransas Pass, which carried through Pullmans from San Antonio to Houston on a zig-zag route that more or less parallelled SP's Texas and New Orleans, where the still-operating "Sunset Limited" ran. Davy Crockett died at the Alamo, which was the San Antonio link.
From what little I can find it looks like the liesurely schedule included a long stop in the middle of the night to swap a San Antonio-Brownsville Pullman for a Brownsville-Houston car.
The SA&AP competed with the San Antonio Uvalde and Gulf which was part of the Frisco and later of the MoPac systems. SP's T&NO picked up the pieces, all but a couple of which have been abandoned. Pasenger service lasted long enough for T&NO to get a bunch of passenger GP9s, which either went to SP proper or went quickly into freight service. SA&AP's bankruptcys left behind a legacy of expensive directors' cars and the failure of the New York Locomotive works.
"When the El Cap ran separate, would it need steps down at the rear?"
Santa Fe preferred it that way. It made switching at the endpoints easier, since the carmen could climb up the end instead of going through the car. It also made it possible to add conventional coaches if needed, though the full twelve car set (2x bagg/exp, bag-dorm transition, step-up coach, two coaches, diner, lounge, three coaches, step-down) seated almost 500. There was a Drumhead that rode the rear car, at least while it still ran as 21 and 22.
103 years ago, a certain railroad operated an overnight train which is described in the February, 1912, issue of Travelers Railway Guide Western Section as 'The ____ ________ night train between ___ and _______ Has become known as the "TRAIN THAT IS ALWAYS ON TIME."' This train took 10 hours and 20 minutes to travel the 238 miles in one direction and 10 hours to travel in the other direction. The name of the train had a connection with one of the two cities, it and carried "through Pullman cars." three years later, it had no name, and carried a tourist car. There was a competitor which was part of a much longer route (about 2000 miles)--and the name of the competing train is still in use.
Three years later, the train had no name
When the El Cap ran separate, would it need steps down at the rear?
The Big Domes on the Texas Chief and SF Chief always sat right behind the Hi-Levels, with the diner and sleepers behind them. Each train of whatever kind had a transition car on the front and back of the Hi-Levels, meaning two Hi-Levels was the minimum. The pre-production test pair 526 and 527 always operated together before ending up in the pool.
Various photographs and personal observations indicated that the Super Chief/El Capitan and the Texas Chief had their hi-level coaches at the front of the consist. The San Francisco Chief may have had the same arrangement.
Hi-Levels 528-532 had steps at the front, and 533-537 had steps at the back. The 1964 Hi-Levels had some convertible cars with steps that could be made all Hi-Level if desired.
Johnny, Dave deferred to you, so go for it.
THE SUPER WAS A SINGLE LEVEL TRAIN. IF THE SUPER'S EQUIPMENT WAS AT THE FRONT OF THE TRAIN, THE BAGGAGE CARS COULD BE AT THE FRONT AND ONLY ONE STEPDOWN CAR WOULD BE REQUIRED. BUT IF THE BAGS WERE AT THE FRONT AND THE SUPER'S EQUIPMENT AT THE REAR, TWO STEPDOWN CARS WOULD BE REQUIRED PER TRAIN. I ASSUME THIS WAS THE CASE BECAUSE OF THE SPECIAL EL CAP BAG CARS WITH THE RISING UP CEILING TO MATCH THE HIGH LEVEL CARS AT THE REAR OF EACH BAG CAR.
STILL, JOHNNY IS TH E WINNER IF THE STEPS ARE THE REASON FOR THE REDUCTION IN SEATING CAPACITY.
Johnny's on the right track. There were two groups of five each of the 68-seat cars, and 25 of the 72 seat cars.
Take Johnny's answer and then think about the 1960s and 1970s, when the El Capitan was combined with the Super Chief riding behind the Hi-Levels...
If I remember correctly, they each had a conductor's office. Rode the train.But possibly others did have the step-down as discussed above.
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