When I saw the answer given early this morning, I said to myself that could not be it--for I rode the South Wind from Indianapolis to Birmingham in July of 1971 (when I took a circle tour in April of 1971, I had to change trains in Louisville, for the South Wind had been truncated there the year before).
Johnny
ZephyrOverland No biggie, but this clue threw me off, since Amtrak's Floridian didn't come into being until November 1971. From May to November 1971 Amtrak's Chicago-Florida train was known as the South Wind.
No biggie, but this clue threw me off, since Amtrak's Floridian didn't come into being until November 1971. From May to November 1971 Amtrak's Chicago-Florida train was known as the South Wind.
Thanks for the correction. I didn't look it up but just assumed the Amtrak train started off as the Floridian.
Mark
KCSfan Deggesty What date in 1971? What area of the country? May of '71. East of the Mississippi. Mark
Deggesty
What date in 1971? What area of the country?
May of '71. East of the Mississippi.
Mark,
Bingo we have a winner! Amtrak's short lived Floridian ran on the same route as had the South Wind.
Floridan (IC, C of G, ACL?) and Floridian (Amtrak), Chicago to Miami.
Excerpt from Illinois Central Magazine, December 1922
New De Luxe Train to Florida Scheduled The Floridan, a new de luxe all-Pullman train, will be put into operation December 5 on the Illinois Central System and connecting lines between Chicago, St. Louis and Florida. It will leave these terminals on the Northern Lines each Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday thereafter and will travel the same route as does the Seminole Limited. The Seminole Limited will continue to run daily. The schedule of the Floridan is such that it will make faster time between Chicago, St. Louis and Florida than any other train. It will leave Chicago at 12:01 p.m. and St. Louis at 4:04 p.m., and will arrive in Jacksonville at 8:50 p.m. the following day, in time to make connections with all night trains for southern Florida. The northbound train will leave Jacksonville at 9 a.m. on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday and will arrive in Chicago at 4:10 p.m. and St. Louis at 4:45 p.m. the next day. The first northbound train will leave Jacksonville December 7.
The Floridan will carry only Pullman passengers. Its equipment will be: 1 baggage-club car Chicago-Jacksonville 1 dining car Chicago-Jacksonville 1 10-section, 1-drawing-room, 2-compartment sleeper Chicago-Jacksonville 1 12-section drawing-room sleeper Chicago-St. Petersburg 1 12-section drawing-room sleeper St. Louis-Jacksonville 1 6-compartment-observation sleeper Chicago-Jacksonville Beginning January 2 the 10-section, 1-drawing-room, 2-compartment sleeper will be operated from Chicago through to Miami, Fla. It will arrive there at 11:30 a.m. the second day after it leaves Chicago. The northbound train will leave Miami at 6:40 p.m. on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
Effective January 2, the Floridan will arrive in Jacksonville at 9:10 p.m. The night train of the Florida East Coast Railroad will leave Jacksonville at 10 p.m. The Floridan will continue through the first part of April. The punctual on-time arrivals of the Seminole Limited will also be a feature of the Floridan. The passenger department has issued a bulletin announcing the new train and requests that all possible publicity be given the one-night-on-the-road service from Chicago and St. Louis to Jacksonville, as well as the convenience afforded by the through Pullmans to St. Petersburg and Miami.
https://books.google.com/books?id=znJ_RPNe-CgC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=%22the+floridan%22+%22illinois+central%22&source=bl&ots=B-8j8Bnz9z&sig=Tt3kiTzVWEF5C0K-VA_ne1Bo2_Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a5sDVaXoIoaXNqCbg5AI&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=true
Deggesty What date in 1971? What area of the country?
KCSfan One train ran in the 1930's and possibly earlier. The last OG that I have in which it appears is the Feb. 1941 issue. It is no longer shown in the March 1946 or later Guides so it must have been discontinued sometime in the interim. The other train operated beginning in 1971 which actually makes it a post Classic Trains era but just by a couple of years. Mark
One train ran in the 1930's and possibly earlier. The last OG that I have in which it appears is the Feb. 1941 issue. It is no longer shown in the March 1946 or later Guides so it must have been discontinued sometime in the interim. The other train operated beginning in 1971 which actually makes it a post Classic Trains era but just by a couple of years.
Well, you've got me. I've been burning up the OG's and the internet and cannot come up with anything.
Sorry, no cookies for you for the reason Dave has pointed out.
Here's today's clue. While the two trains I'm looking for served the same end point cities they took different routes in doing so.
No you don't because the two trains do not serve the same market.
Still searching.
You happened to catch me after I just put down a book on Santa Fe passenger trains. The ANGEL, SFO-LA and the ANGELO, Ft. Worth- San Angelo.
the Northbound version of the ANGEL was the SAINT.
Do I get a cookie?
Except for a one letter difference the names of two trains were spelled the same but pronounced differently. The two served the same market but not at the same time. Name the trains and their routes.
Somewhere in the midst of SOUTHERN "coach-ology", I declare Mark the winner with
SLUMBERCOACH.
All yours bud.
SHAMELESS PLUG #2 - also FRISCO, C&EI. The ACL & SAL Historical Society will be carrying the book in their company store.
END OF SHAMELESS PLUG #2
KCSfan I looked back as far as 1930 and could find no SR through coach service to any city in Florida except Jacksonville.
I looked back as far as 1930 and could find no SR through coach service to any city in Florida except Jacksonville.
SR sometimes handled south-of-Jacksonville coaches, primarily in winter season trains. Examples are, the Suwanee River Special to St. Petersburg (winter season and year-round versions), the Florida Sunbeam to Miami and St. Petersburg, and the New Royal Palm to Miami.
SHAMELESS PLUG -> For those who are interested, the second volume of "From the Midwest to Florida By Rail, 1875-1979", produced by PRRT&HS, which is in production and should be available in May 2015, will have a large section devoted to SR Midwest-Florida operations.
KCSfan I can' speak to all times, but as far as I know the Seminole was never all Pullman.
I can' speak to all times, but as far as I know the Seminole was never all Pullman.
For most of its life, the Seminole operated as a coach-Pullman train except during several mid-1920's winter seasons when regularly scheduled separate Pullman and coach sections were operated, the latter sometimes called Seminole Express.
rcdrye I'm going with the RDC.
I'm going with the RDC.
I agree if in fact the RDC is an eligible contender. Budd introduced the RDC in 1949 but none went into revenue service until 1950 when the NYC bought them for its B&A line. Does this make the RDC an innovation of the '40's or '50's?
If the RDC is ruled ineligible then I'll opt for the slumbercoach.
Sheesh,Dave. If that were true then most all your questions would require only the latest in smart-crystal ball technology. ONE thing please. Dome cars are 1940's but that would be the answer for that decade. 1950's. Somebody already mentioned it.
OK. But you are asking us to read your mind, since obviuosly there are several correct answers.
RDCs cannot be right, since some are moving people today.Domes still bring riders to the Canadian.
From those I posted, I'll pick TV in lounge cars.
Dome cars?
Ok, gang, the KEY word here is ONE. So, to be fair, somebody pick the correct ONE and tell me what it is. No "skeet choke" here hoping to hit something.
slumbercoach/sleepercoach. magnetic credit card readers and cards and aceptance for meals as well as tickets. Low center-of-gravity and tilting equipment, like the the PRR Keystone (low center-of-gravity).
I would be tempted to add double-deck long-distance cars, the Sante Fe highlevel cars, except they were of great use, since the Superliners were based on their design.
TV in lounge cars.
If I am truely up, then here's a real easy one so that the next quiz master can step up.
Of all the innovations in passenger railroading of the 1950's, which is the only one that worked; albeit too late to do any good?
Travling to Charlottesville at age 10 on the Southener and returning to NY on a C&O local and a regular Washington - NY PRR train was my first experience traveling on railroads that did not serve NYCity directly or via ferry boats, and I remember being intregued by the names of the two Southern Cincinnati - Jacksonville trains as I studied the timetable. But later I never rode those trains. Did ride the City of Miami, probably twice, and the Southwind once. The latter in PC days, with slow orders on the PC track from Chicago to Lousiville and the equipment not in the best shape. The IC did keep things up, howeverm on the City of Miami.
Actually, Dave, the Southern never was much of a player in the Chicago - Florida market. Its Florida trains mainly served Detroit, Grand Rapids, Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo, Cincinnati and intermediate points. Until the late 40"s or early 50"s SR trains carried a single Chi-Mia sleeper which ran northbound in the Ponce de Leone and southbound in the Royal Palm. Circa 1930, both the Royal Palm DeLuxe and the Suwanee River Special carried a Chi-Mia sleeper. Both these were winter season only trains.
So basically, the Southern route was competitive in the heavyweight era, but pretty much dropped out of the competition when the streamliners were introduced. Is my understanding correct that there were never any through coaches via Southern in this market, just Pullmans.
Dave, while there were minor differences in their schedules, the City of Miami, Southwind and Dixie Flagler all made their Chicago-Miami runs in about 30-1/2 hours. The Royal Palm ran Chicago-Miami in just under 40 hrs. The pre-WW2 Florida Sunbeam had a 34 hr - 45 min schedule making it the Southern's fastest Chicago-Miami train.
No problem, but I would point out that I did give a technically correct answer to the first question as stated: eastbound only, true, but still, the Super to the Broadway, Century, and Capitol. So in compensation, please answer something that puzzles me. The three "streamliner" carriers for the Florida trade leaving Chicago were the C&EI, PRR, and IC. But I also recall the Southern's Ponce de Leon and Royal Palm, Cincinnati-Jacksonville, with through cars Chicago - Miami, possibly St.Pete as well on the south and DEtroit and Cleveland on the north. Chicago cars were handled by the NYCentral. How did the overall running timje compare with the three majors, both in the heavyweight era and post WWII? Is my memory correct on this?
And am I correct that the IC's Seminol was once all-Pullman?
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter