Right, the combined line was C St. - Colonial Heights. Marysville - Uba City local passenger service, probably with a Birney or two, lasted through WWII on the SN. Your question, please.
SN had two suburban operations, the Swanton and Elverta "scoots". The last SN car line was "C St" combined with a CCT line to Colonial Heights (and operated with ex-CCT equipment) by SCL.
Of course you can ask the next question. But do you want to supply the name of one or both or the combined route of a local Sacramento interurban-operated vstreetcar line or should I do so?
Sacramento CA. The three interurbans were Northern Electric (later Sacramento Northern), Central California Traction and Oakland Antioch and Eastern (later San Francisco-Sacramento). CCT and NE/SN operated local streetcars, as did Pacific Gas and Electric. SN merged in SF-S under Western Pacific ownership. SN service south out of Sacramento ended in August 1940, north in October 1940. Service from San Francisco to Pittsburg remained into 1941. SN continued electric freight operations over most of its lines into the early 1950s, gradually dieselising and then moving larger and larger segments to trackage rights over "steam" roads, especially after losing its ferry crossing on the way to Oakland when the trestle collapsed in 1951 and the car ferry Ramon failed inspection in 1954. Through electric freight operation was discontined north of Sacramento first due to the exposed third rail. but continued until 1957 Pittsburg-Oakland and into 1965 in Marysville and Yuba City.
CCT, PG&E and SN city lines were sold to Sacramento City Lines - part of National City Lines in 1943. Buses followed in 1946.
SN operated city streetcars in Chico until 1947, California's last 5 cent fare.
Back to the Illinois/Indiana loop there were two gaps, one on either side of Danville IL totalling about 80 miles. There was also a gap in 600V running between LaPorte and Chesterton IN, where the Air Line trackage had been abandoned in 1918.
This city had three interurban lines, two of which also had a local streetcar line. It also had a more comprehensive, multi-line streetcar system. In some places, track was shared, and all used conventional 550-600V DC. Two of the initerurbans merged, then the two remaining ones sold their respective local lines to the major city system who combined the two lines. Then the whole local system went bus, although one of the two interurbans did maintain certain passenger services elsewhere while maintaining freight service in the city limites. City, name of companies involved, name of at least one of the local insterurban-owned local streetcar lines. As much information in addition as you can provide.
Close enough. AE&FR's line to Yorkville connected with the Fox and Illinois Union to Morris. The Chicago and Illinois Valley (Illinois Traction)returned you to Joliet, the Joliet and Eastern to Chicago Heights, up the C&IT to the south limit of Chicago on Vincennes, and Halsted to 63rd. Up the stairs to the Englewood line and back downtown. First gap appeared in 1922 when the J&E was abandoned.
The first leg was still the Metropolitan West Side Elevated , and Englewood was still South Side Rapid Transit (Both operated by Chicago Elevated Railways Collateral Trust) in 1920. Chicago Rapid Transit wasn't formed until 1924.
In 1920 the CA&E and AE&FRV were still the Aurora Elgin and Chicago. There was a track connection from the Third Rail Division to the Fox River Division at Elgin, but passengers had to walk through the stub-end station and out into the street to get Fox River Division cars.
The Halsted-Vincennes line was acquired by Chicago City Railway from Chicago and Southern Traction, C&IT's predecessor in 1910. In 1920 there was no direct physical connection between CSL and the South Side Rapid Transit, though a connection was built in the late 20s from the 63d st line to CRT's 63rd st. lower yard for materials and work equipment.
Ressults of research. From Halstead St. Station, CA&E to Elgin, Aurora Elgin and Fox Valley to Morris, Chicago, Ottawa, and Peoria (?) to Lockport, (?) to Chicago Heights, Chicago and Interurban Traction to Englewood and Chicago Rapid Transit back to the Loop.
OK IFTHE CA&E trains stopped at Halstead, then CA&E to Elgin, then the Fox Valley interurban south, assuming there is a way to get back to Chicago from its south end to Chicago. Otherwise, only to LaGrange Rd., if there was a N-S line there, and back to Chicago on the C&WT. I'll have to study what is available on the internet.
Did not know about the gap you mentioned.
The loop never closed between Kanakee and Terre Haute, though it got pretty close.
Oops, north from Dayton to Lima, then Lima to Fort Wayne and Peru. Should work.
Where are the gaps?
I thought all lines I suggested were 550-600V. What were the exceptions?
Loops to the east don't quite complete in 1920, at least not at 600 Volts.
Here's the first leg: From the inner loop platform on the Madison/Wabash station, take any Garfield Park, Douglas Park or Logan Square train to Halsted. Change at Halsted to...
I am also amused by your reference to the Lake Front. The boulevard on the Lake Front was the exclusive domain of Chicago Motor Coach with its double-deck buses, a GM subsidiary, even in the 1920s.
Well, if interurbans can be used, it involves going north to the most northern east-west streetcar line, out to western aveunue, south and east to the short-lived operator that competed with IC suburban and RI, using its connections south to the components that later made up Indian RR, then from Terre Haut east to Indianapolis and through Richmond to Dayoton, Dayton and Western, then the Dayton and Troy and back west to Fort Wayne, then the Winiona north from Peru, Northen Indiana Railways, Gary Railways, and CSL back to the loop. Should be possible around 1920. This is the approximate routing, but it would take a study of maps to pin down the exact routing.
In the era of the Indiana Railway, there was only the one connection, the Winona, between the Chicago interurban lines and the Indiana - Ohio - Michigan complex. But earlier there was another, father west, but it was really more a collecton of local streetcar lines, including the "interuban" that competed with the IC suburban and Rock Island,
And instead of going straight south on Western Avenue, a detour over some of the Chicago and West Towns lines might have added mileage to the loop, assuming the two divisions that I remember as separated were at one time connected (other than by CSL tracks), possibly by a line running north and south on La Grange Road. Time might have been saved by using the C&AE instead of a parallel C&WT streetcar without loosing mileage. I just don't know C&WT history well enough.
If you wish, I will postpone a definite answer, and start doing some research on the internet. Or if my basic approach is correct, you can flesh out the details by the knowledge you have if you wish to do so.
The loop runs a long way outside of Chicago. The rule is in place so you don't have to trace the edge of the city to get to the exit and re-entry point for the city. The first hint I'll give is that the route does not involve any of the North Side lines.
Is the rule that one must stay within the boundaries of Chicago? Otherwise, we can use some interurban lines and really cover a lot of the midwest in the process. For Chicago only, I would need a period CSL map, which may be possible on the web. For example, I don't know if or if not there was 1920-era east-west Howard Street streetcar or if any of the western north-south lines connected with the CRT Demster Street service at a local station. OR if that service is outside Chicago.
In honor of Dave Klepper's recent birthday, we'll do a Chicago-style trip like the New York ones he subjects us to.
Starting at the Madison/Wabash L station, take the longest loop possible in 1920 using only 600V electric lines. A couple of rules to to simplify:
1. Inside the city of Chicago, only the most direct route to the City line is necessary. You don't have to follow the lakefront or the City boundary.
2. It's not necessary for the track to connect, but you can't walk more than a block to make connections.
This is a winner. Since then, the Dan Ryan Line has extended south to 95th Street and the Blue Line has extended into Douglas-Orchard Airport.
rcdrye, your question.
North: Linden Avenue Wilmette (Evanston Branch)
West: 22nd and Mannheim Rd Westchester via CA&E and CW&W (Westchester Branch)
South: 69th st. and Parnell Avenue, Chicago (Normal Park Branch
I'll stick with Chicago. Prior to the takeover by the Chicago Transit Authority in 1947, please name the northernmost, southernmost and westernmost points operated by the Rapid Transit Company.
I wasn't sure the keys would cool off before you got that. From Buena Park near Montrose Ave. in Chicago (That's Bew-enna Park) to Evanston the NWERR and successors switched a number of CNS&M customers. The same pair of Baldwin-Westinghouse locomotives (S-104 and S-105) were used the entire time. At one point CMStP&P interchanged with the North Shore in Skokie via the CRT, but the insignificant car count (6 in 1946) ended that. Track 1, the westernmost track on the North Side main line, was equipped with a gantlet and overhead wire from Wilson to Granville, and overhead wire only (no third rail) from Granville to Howard. Howard, and Evanston stations, had gantlets (east side track in Evanston). After the last customer north of Granville quit, track 1 got third rail. Last operation, to Lill Coal near Berwyn Avenue, ran in 1973.
Evanston Express and CNS&M trains that used track 1 southbound operated off of the overhead wire north of Granville.
CMStP&P was the right-of-way owner for the North Side Main Line and the Evanston Branch CTA didn't get title until the 1970s.
Looking forward to your next question!
That would be the freight operation on what is now the Red Line by variously the Northwestern Elevated RR, Chicago Rapid Transit Co. and the Chicago Transit Authority. It was under a car-handling contract for the Milwaukee Road which began when MILW ended its suburban operation on the line in question when Northwestern Elevated leased the line for its rapid transit operation.
CR&I had a bunch of early EMC/EMD switchers but they had been transferred to parent NYC by thge early 1960s. The other nearby NYC Limas were the 1200 HP road switchers used at LaSalle and Central Stations, some or all of which had received EMD 567 engines by the 1960s. Story is that one of those showed up at Collinswood Shops in Cleveland with a note "Please build us a new engine."
This electric freight service for standard interchange freight cars operated for over fifty years under three owners without ever appearing on a waybill.
rcdrye Wait a minute... ALL of CR&I's engines were Limas. 21 800HP switchers (9800-9820) and 6 1200HP switchers (8406-8411).
Wait a minute... ALL of CR&I's engines were Limas. 21 800HP switchers (9800-9820) and 6 1200HP switchers (8406-8411).
We have a winner. Incidentally, CR&I was considered a Class I road at the time it had its all-Lima roster, probably based on switching revenues in and around the Union Stock Yards.
rcdrye, your turn for a new question.
Virginian's 800 triplex could start simple, but simple or compound it ran out of steam fast, even when demoted to pusher service. Electrifying Clark's Gap made it surplus pretty soon after it was built. When it was rebuilt into a 2-8-8-0 (and a 2-8-2) it got a better firebox, which is what it needed in the first place.
IF THE BOILER HAS THE CAPACITY TO SUPPORT ALL THOSE CYLINDERS, EVEN IN JUST STARTING!!!
I think the key phrase is "since the intercepting valve delivers full steam pressure to all four cylinders at starting". The compound locomotive is at that point operating as a simple engine. In the case of a triplex, with all six cylinders of the same dimension, a simple lcomotive should deliver the same TE as the compound operating simple. In a typical compound, when you blast full boiler pressure into those huge low pressure units, you will get alot of omph, but rapidly drain the boiler.
I dug out my copy of "Articulated Locomotives" by Lionel Wiener. In his discussion of triplex(i?) he makes no mention of the Virginian engine being simple. Westing's book is the only place I saw it. I trust the Wiener on this one.
rfpjohnA simple engine should exert a greater starting tractive effort than a similar compound.
I only just now saw this. A typical compound (Mallet) will exert SIGNIFICANTLY higher starting TE than a simple counterpart, since the intercepting valve delivers full steam pressure to all four cylinders at starting... of course, there is considerably higher steam consumption up to the point where the engine starts to work compound, but there is little question of the higher STE.
Probably not directly relevant to the question, but I thought rfpjohn and perhaps others might want to know...
You're on the right track, keep digging.
CR&I had some locomotives, NYC with sublettering. Some of CR&I's switchers were unrebuilt Limas.
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