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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 16, 2015 6:40 PM

I'll poach this one.  IGN - if you have a question and it's my turn, I'll yield any time.

The first five members of what became N&W's famous Y class were not built for N&W, but another railroad that already rostered 2-8-8-2's as well as other articulateds.  Name the railroad, and the reason.  The railroad later owned several ex-N&W Y class locomotives, though not these five.

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:49 PM

Ike Tigrett is correct. He served for 34 years as president of the GM&O snd its predecessors M&O and GM&N. Either narig or Rob can ask the next question.

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 10:04 PM
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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 4:36 PM

I think IGN is referring to Isaac "Ike" Tigrett, who was president of various railroads that ended up as the GM&O starting in 1916.  He started as an assistant of some kind to J. Paul Getty.  The country music guy IGN refers to is also Ike Tigrett, founder of the "House of Blues".

Tigrett consolidated the GM&N, NOGN, and M&O into the Gulf Mobile and Ohio, and eventually acquired the Alton from the B&O at a fire sale price.

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 2:43 PM
I can not remember the president so if I'm correct someone else can name him. Is the railroad the Gulf Mobile & Ohio? Saw a piece recently and this persons grandson is a country singer I think. Rgds IGN
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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 10:38 AM

Not Bill Deramus. The man I have in mind served as president of the same railroad all his career though the road underwent several name changes.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 10:05 AM

I would guess that William Deramus is the man in question, variously president of CGW, MKT and KCS.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 6:28 AM

What man served as president of a major railroad for the longest time? While not on the scale of James Hill or E. H. Harriman, he put together a railroad empire of over 2700 miles. Surprisingly, he did not "come up through the ranks" but became a railroad president after a brief career in the banking industry.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 13, 2015 3:03 AM

ן SHARE YOUR CONCERN

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, January 12, 2015 4:07 PM

Thanks, Mark.  Perhaps I should have looked at my copy and thus made sure before posting the question. Now we wait for the next question

Looking back to the early days of this thread, I wonder what has become of some the peopple who contributed back then--Passenger Fan, Al-in-Chicago, Zepher Overland, and others. I know one of them is getting busy this time of the year with people who need his help in counting on their fingers and toes.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, January 12, 2015 2:27 PM

Johnny, the January 1930 OG shows the Dallas section of the southbound Bluebonnet leaving Denison at 5:25 am and the Ft. Worth section leaving at 5:30 am. Arrival and departure times at Dallas were 8:05 am and 9:00, respectively. It shows the other section arriving at Ft. Worth at 8:15 am and leaving at 9:00 am. The two sections were apparently combined at Hillsboro at 10:50 as the times from there to San Antonio were all the same. So at least this one MKT train serving both Dallas and Ft. Worth split at one point and were recombined at a later time and place.

Mark

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 12, 2015 11:18 AM

From my seat, your questions are always welcome.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, January 12, 2015 10:34 AM

You're right. Through traffic boarding at either Dallas or Fort Worth did not warrant a recombining at Waco, for the MKT simply did not have the market. I thought of this off the top of my head after reading Dave's suggestion of a split before the two metropoli and a recombining after, that the MKT did have the parallel routes (though one involved extensive trackage rights).

If my question is deemed unsuitable, I do have another one.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 12, 2015 9:02 AM

In the late 1950s the Texas Special and Bluebonnet swapped cars at Denison, but only met cross platform at Waco.  The Texas Special 1/2 ran via Dallas and carried the through diner, the Bluebonnet 21/22 via Fort Worth got a meal stop at Waco southbound, Smithville or Fort Worth northbound.  The original arrangement had a Fort Worth section (11/12) that only ran Denison-Fort Worth.  M-K-T's only RDC held down the Wichita Falls connection (31/32) after 1956.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, January 12, 2015 8:46 AM

While the lines from Ft. Worth and Dallas rejoined at Hillsboro, the trains were probably not reconnected to continue on to San Antonio until Waco which was the next station stop.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, January 12, 2015 7:33 AM

M-K-T Denison on the north and Hillsboro to the South.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, January 11, 2015 7:45 PM

In April of 1971, I was able to ride both the Grand Canyon and the San Francisco Chief, albeit for just a short distance (Joliet to Chicago for both trains) as I endeavored to cover as much route mileage before the advent of Amtrak (on the same trip, I met the woman whom I married, fifteen months later, on the City of Portland (we were on the same train for the same reason)).

What railroad did offer service to both Dallas and Ft. Worth by splitting and then recombining its trains? What were the junction points?

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, January 11, 2015 6:18 PM

Johnny has the correct answer.  I was counting the LA - Grand Canyon cars as the seventh pair.

The Grand Canyon lasted right up to April 1971, though the southern section was discontinued earlier, along with all of the Texas cars.  Santa Fe's last active PAs worked the Grand Canyon regularly into 1970. in the August 1957 OG, the southern section carried 23/24, the norther 23/123/23 and 24/124/24.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, January 11, 2015 5:25 PM

The mention of a car's being taken out in the middle of the night and then coming back in the next night made me think of a Chicago-Los Angeles car that stopped over in Grand Canyon.

Arriving at the total of seven city pairs takes careful study of the timetable, as the eastbound and westbound arrangements are not the same--at least in the 4/28/57 condensed timetable that I have.

The Northern section (trains 123 and 124) of the Grand Canyon had between Chicago and Los Angeles a 6 section, 1 drawing room, 4 double bedroom car and a 14 section car. Between the two cities via Grand Canyon there was an 8 section, 2 double bedroom, 2 compartment car and a 6 section, 6 roomette, 4 double bedroom car (but, they went east from Williams on the San Francisco Chief--are you counting these Los-Angeles to Grand Canyon assignments as a separate city pair?). Between Chicago and Phoenix there was an 8 section, drawing room, 3 double bedroom car.

The southern section, which ran separately between Kansas City and Winslow, had a Kansas City-Los Angeles 8 section, 1 drawing room, 2 compartment car, a Dallas (Union Station)-Los Angeles (which it picked up or dropped off in Clovis) 6 section, 6 roomette, 4 double bedroom car. Meal service between Waynoka and Clovis was provided in a snack chair car.

I still come up with only six pairs, unless the Grand Canyon cars carried east from WIlliams on the San Francisco Chief are counted as a city pair.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, January 11, 2015 4:03 PM

MoPac and T&P, while allied, were not under entirely the same corporation until the early 1960s.  You're moving into the right part of the country, though, and one of the cars originated at a Union Terminal shared with the T&P.  The state mandated subsidiaries for the train I'm looking for all ended with the same words as the parent.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 11, 2015 3:17 PM

Ahah!  A MoPac & T&P, one route via Dallas and one via Fort Worth, destinations at one end include Brownsville, El Paso, Houston, and Galvaston.   N. end certainly St. Louis.   Have to check for others.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 11, 2015 3:11 PM

OK   Back to the drawing board.   And it was Monroe, not Lynchburg, anyway.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, January 11, 2015 12:42 PM

All cars originated and terminated on the same railroad, or a state-required subsidiary of the railroad.  The same train name was used on both routes.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 11, 2015 4:05 AM

OK. Then it is a Southern Washington - New Orleans train, via Atlanta and Bermingham. but with cars switched at Lynchburg to run via Monroe, Roanoke, and Bristol, rejoining at Birmingham.  End destinations include Atlanta, Birmingham, Memphis, Chattanooga, New Orleans and possibly Shreveport and/or Raleigh on the south, and Washington, New York, and possibly Boston on the north. Almost all the equipment is Southern, with possibly a few N&W cars, but these would not be switched out to rejoin.  Some Southern cars to see other railroads, including of course the PRR. The "Pelican"?

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 10, 2015 2:53 PM

The train ran all the way from end to end on the same railroad.  In fact all of the cars that were added enroute came from the same railroad system.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, January 10, 2015 1:16 PM

this was one of the crack chicago - florida trains, all pullman, in the pre-streamlined era, where the candei or the prr carried a combinied train for cincinnati and/or louisville with separate trains running from those ponts to jacksonville, then combined on the fec to miami or on the acl to tampa and another acl to st pete.  one rout was l&n the other probably southern.forget the details, but generally it is a chicago - florida train, and i imagine northern teminals served by the combination include detroit-toledo definitely, possibly cleveland, and southern points include jacksonville, miami, tampa, st, petersburg, possibly sarasota.  the only chi-florida route that surely was not involved was the illinois central.  i recall reading about the train,but forget the details. this part answer might save time for someone with the refernces to find the full answer.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 9, 2015 4:31 PM

Another train from a 1957 Official Guide...  This train split into sections and then later recombined, in the process carrying Pullmans between seven different city pairs.  One of the cars left the train in the middle of the night each night, only to reappear on the next day's train.  One of the sections operated with only a snack chair car for food service.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 9, 2015 11:12 AM

The day train west of Roanoke carried the same numbers (13/14) as the night train east of there, but the equipment lists didn't show through cars.  3 and 4 were the day trains east of Roanoke.  VGN passenger trains operated to Charleston over the Toledo and Ohio Central (New York Central) as long as service was provided west of Roanoke. TA and PA class ten wheeler and Pacific engines operated under Virginian's electrific overhead between Roanoke and Mullens. My grandfather was a director of the VGN until the N&W merger.

I'll post a new question later this evening.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, January 9, 2015 10:14 AM

rcdrye

Virginian's 1910 timetable showed C&O connections at Deepwater W Va.  Virginian operated its own Club cars at the time.

 

You are on the right track, literally. The June, 1930, Guide shows the train. At the time, the Virginian had two trains a day between Norfolk and Roanoke; one was a day train and the other was an overnight train, complete with a sleeper. By the fifties, only the day train from Tidewater was left.

Now, how many of you even thought of the Virginian, which operated deep into the coal country of West Virginia, intruding into the C&O's country?

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 9, 2015 8:29 AM

Virginian's 1910 timetable showed C&O connections at Deepwater W Va.  Virginian operated its own Club cars at the time.

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