Texas Zepher wanswheelRio Grande Southern photos by William Henry Jackson...Silverton turntableThat is the right location (corkscrew gultch) and turn table, but that picture doesn't belong in that set with the Rio Grande Southern ones. Different railroad. By the way, where the one locomotive is sitting by itself, it is on a 5% grade. That steep grade is why the locomotive had to be turned. They found it impossible to push a train up that hill, it had to be pulled. P.S. I'll take either the real name of the railroad or its nick name.
wanswheelRio Grande Southern photos by William Henry Jackson...Silverton turntable
P.S. I'll take either the real name of the railroad or its nick name.
D&RGW Narrow Gauge?
Mark
KCSfanD&RGW
The Silverton Railroad, The Rainbow Route. I've eliminated all the other possibilities so this must be the one. The 5% grade hint gave it away.
William Henry Jackson photos @ Denver Public Library photoswest.org
D&RGWP map http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/1930_D%26RGW_WP.jpg
KCSfanThe Silverton Railroad, The Rainbow Route. I've eliminated all the other possibilities so this must be the one. The 5% grade hint gave it away.
At this time there were four railroads serving Silverton. If a model railroader really likes narrow gauge, Silverton from 1877 to 1910 is the place to consider modeling. In 1896 the fourth railroad was built out of the town.
Your turn.
wanswheelD&RGWP map http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/1930_D%26RGW_WP.jpg
Texas ZepherAt this time there were four railroads serving Silverton. If a model railroader really likes narrow gauge, Silverton from 1877 to 1910 is the place to consider modeling. In 1896 the fourth railroad was built out of the town.
The Silverton Northern Railroad.
Next question should be an easy one. In 1940 three streamlined trains were put in service running between Chicago and Florida. The trainset of one of these had previously been in service on a different route. When was this trainset first put in service, what was its original route and train name?
KCSfan Next question should be an easy one. In 1940 three streamlined trains were put in service running between Chicago and Florida. The trainset of one of these had previously been in service on a different route. When was this trainset first put in service, what was its original route and train name? Mark
On 12-3-1939, the Florida East Coast began operating the Henry M. Flagler in daily round trip service between Miami and Jacksonville. On 12-17-1940, the consist began operating as the Dixie Flagler, running in every third day service in conjunction with the South Wind (12-19) and the City of Miami (12-18).
Johnny
Deggesty KCSfan Next question should be an easy one. In 1940 three streamlined trains were put in service running between Chicago and Florida. The trainset of one of these had previously been in service on a different route. When was this trainset first put in service, what was its original route and train name? Mark On 12-3-1939, the Florida East Coast began operating the Henry M. Flagler in daily round trip service between Miami and Jacksonville. On 12-17-1940, the consist began operating as the Dixie Flagler, running in every third day service in conjunction with the South Wind (12-19) and the City of Miami (12-18).
Right on all counts Deggesty. Your turn to ask the next question. The Flagler's seven car consist was: baggage/22 seat coach - Stuart, two 60 seat coaches - Hollywood & Hobe Sound, diner - Ft. Lauderdale, 60 seat coach - Melbourne, 52 seat coach - Delray Beach, and tavern/observation - Lake Worth. The FEC's first diesel electric engine, E-3 No. 1001, headed the train.
It was really easy.
According to From Zephyr to Amtrak, the coach, Delray Beach, had a hostess room (thus, only 52 seats instead of 60).
My new question:
What configuration of sleeper was built for ACL (PRR, RF&P, and FEC also ordered cars of theis type) trains only and to what configuration were they changed eleven years later?
Deggesty It was really easy. According to From Zephyr to Amtrak, the coach, Delray Beach, had a hostess room (thus, only 52 seats instead of 60). My new question: What configuration of sleeper was built for ACL (PRR, RF&P, and FEC also ordered cars of theis type) trains only and to what configuration were they changed eleven years later?
These were the ACL River series sleepers built by AC&F containing 14 Roomettes and 2 Drawing rooms.The cars were constructed to Plan 9006 and delivered in February March 1950 in Lot 3091. ACL cars were named ASHLEY RIVER, CAPE FEAR RIVER, COOPER RIVER, MANATEE RIVER, OGEECHEE RIVER and SUWANEE RIVER. In addition the FEC received a single car of this type built in Lot 3096 and named PANAMA, the PRR rceived two cars in Lot 3098 ANACOSTIA RIVER and HACKENSACK RIVER, and the other was RF&P car lot 3094 FAIRFAX RIVER.
The ACL owned cars were rebuilt to plan 9018 in 1961 containing 7 Double Bedrooms and 2 Drawing Rooms. They were renamed to Bird series cars at that time. The cars were rebuilt in the following order.
MANATEE RIVER 4/61 renamed RICE BIRD
SUWANEE RIVER 7/61 renamed SURF BIRD
CAPE FEAR RIVER 7/61 renamed BLUE BIRD
OGEECHEE RIVER 7/61 renamed HUMMING BIRD
ASHLEY RIVER 9/61 renamed HONEY BIRD
COOPER RIVER 10/61 renamed JAY BIRD
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfan Deggesty It was really easy. According to From Zephyr to Amtrak, the coach, Delray Beach, had a hostess room (thus, only 52 seats instead of 60). My new question: What configuration of sleeper was built for ACL (PRR, RF&P, and FEC also ordered cars of theis type) trains only and to what configuration were they changed eleven years later? These were the ACL River series sleepers built by AC&F containing 14 Roomettes and 2 Drawing rooms.The cars were constructed to Plan 9006 and delivered in February March 1950 in Lot 3091. ACL cars were named ASHLEY RIVER, CAPE FEAR RIVER, COOPER RIVER, MANATEE RIVER, OGEECHEE RIVER and SUWANEE RIVER. In addition the FEC received a single car of this type built in Lot 3096 and named PANAMA, the PRR rceived two cars in Lot 3098 ANACOSTIA RIVER and HACKENSACK RIVER, and the other was RF&P car lot 3094 FAIRFAX RIVER. The ACL owned cars were rebuilt to plan 9018 in 1961 containing 7 Double Bedrooms and 2 Drawing Rooms. They were renamed to Bird series cars at that time. The cars were rebuilt in the following order. MANATEE RIVER 4/61 renamed RICE BIRD SUWANEE RIVER 7/61 renamed SURF BIRD CAPE FEAR RIVER 7/61 renamed BLUE BIRD OGEECHEE RIVER 7/61 renamed HUMMING BIRD ASHLEY RIVER 9/61 renamed HONEY BIRD COOPER RIVER 10/61 renamed JAY BIRD Al - in - Stockton
Now, what question have you to cause us to rack our brains or go to our source books?
In 1954 the CPR and CNR rebuilt Tourist Sleepers for there new trains The Canadian and The Super Continental. The CNR cars were more extensively rebuilt than there CPR counterparts. Name them?
PS Just back from Disneyworld yesterday.
Well I know there is nothing in my brain on this subject to rack it for, so it is off to the reference materials.
Texas Zepher Well I know there is nothing in my brain on this subject to rack it for, so it is off to the reference materials.
The CP cars: Udall, Uganda, Ullswater, Ulster, Ulysses, Umber, Underwood, Unicorn, Unity, Universe, Unwin, Uplands, Upsala, Upton, Uranus, Urban, Uren, Urquhart, Usher, Utica, Utopia, Uxbridge The CN Cars: Point Alconi, Pointe Basse, Pointe Bleue, Pointe De Bute, Point Calumet, Pointe Carre, Pointe Du Chene, Pointe Claire, Point Comfort, Point Crewe, Point Cross, Point Edward, Pointe Au Gaul, Point Gardiner, Point Grey, Point Ideal, Point Lance, Pointe Lebel, Point May, Pointe Michaud, Pointe Des Monts, Pointe Navarre, Pointe La Nim, Pointe Parent, Pointe Au Pic, Pointe Platon, Point Prim, Pointe De Roche, Pointe Sapin, Point Tupper, Point Wolfe
ZephyrOverlandThe CP cars: Udall, Uganda, Ullswater, Ulster, Ulysses, Umber, Underwood, Unicorn, Unity, Universe, Unwin, Uplands, Upsala, Upton, Uranus, Urban, Uren, Urquhart, Usher, Utica, Utopia, Uxbridge The CN Cars:Point Alconi, Pointe Basse, Pointe Bleue, Pointe De Bute, Point Calumet, Pointe Carre, Pointe Du Chene, Pointe Claire, Point Comfort, Point Crewe, Point Cross, Point Edward, Pointe Au Gaul, Point Gardiner, Point Grey, Point Ideal, Point Lance, Pointe Lebel, Point May, Pointe Michaud, Pointe Des Monts, Pointe Navarre, Pointe La Nim, Pointe Parent, Pointe Au Pic, Pointe Platon, Point Prim, Pointe De Roche, Pointe Sapin, Point Tupper, Point Wolfe
Absolutely Correcto. Your question next here is a little more information on the cars.
Beginning in December 1953 the Canadian National shops were busy once again rebuilding 14 Section Tourist Sleeping cars into streamlined 14-Section Tourist Sleeping cars. These cars were being rebuilt in anticipation of the new cars from Pullman Standard for the SUPER CONTINENTAL. The Cars were completed as follows.
The SUPER CONTINENTAL began service in April 1955 using the 11 streamlined 14 Section Tourist Sleeping cars and the 9 modernized cars of this type from the CONTINENTAL. By early 1956 the CN was aware that additional streamlined 14 Section tourist sleeping cars were needed for the SUPER CONTINENTAL. This would return the modernized 14 Section tourist sleeping cars to the CONTINENTAL.The CN streamlined 11 additional heavyweight 14-Section tourist sleeping cars as follows for assignment to the SUPER CONTINENTAL. This gave the CN 22 streamlined 14-Section Tourist Sleeping cars and 9 modernized 14 Section Tourist Sleeping cars.
Besides the above cars the CPR Angus shops were busy remodeling twenty-two 14 Section Tourist Sleeping cars for assignment to the CANADIAN. The heavyweight tourist cars were refurbished and repainted inside. The exteriors of the cars were fitted with fluted stainless steel panels to match the exteriors of the lightweight stream-lined Budd built cars. The CPR "U" series tourist sleeping cars lasted until 1965 in the consists of the CANADIAN before being withdrawn. They were easily spotted in the trains as the clerestory roofs of theses cars were higher than the Budd cars. The CANADIANS carried three per consist and they were found forward in the train just behind the Budd built Baggage Crew Dormitory car and ahead of the coach section of the CANADIAN.
14 SECTION TOURIST SLEEPING CARS Rebuilt by CPR Angus shops between October 1954 and April 1955 (Rebuilt for and assigned to CANADIAN) UDALL UGANDA ULLSWATER ULSTER ULYSSES UMBER UNDERWOOD UNICORN UNITY UNIVERSE UNWIN UPLANDS UPSALA UPTON URANUS URBAN UREN URQUHART USHER UTICA UTOPIA
UXBRIDGE
Next question:
We all know about the Union Pacific City trains. Give me at least 10 train names that began with "City of" that the Union Pacific was NOT involved in.
ZephyrOverlandGive me at least 10 train names that began with "City of" that the Union Pacific was NOT involved in.
Then Wabash had the City of Kansas City (I always thought was a fairly stupid name).
City of Milwalkee 400 - CNW.
That's all I know off the top of my head but a little research reviels -City of Miami - IC/ACL/CoG/FECCity of Decatur - ITRCity of Cleveland - NKPCity of Chicago - NKP
That still leaves at least three. Hmmmm.
City of Memphis,City of Mexico, City of New Orleans,City of Miami, those come immediatly to mind will have to do some research for the others.
passengerfanCity of Memphis
Texas Zepher passengerfanCity of MemphisWhich railroad was that? Also the IC?
Good response....so far we got:
City of Chicago - NKP - Buffalo-Chicago
City of Cleveland - NKP - Chicago-Buffalo
City of Decatur - Illinois Terminal - St. Louis-Decatur
City of Kansas City - Wabash - St. Louis-Kansas City
City of Memphis - NCStL - Nashville-Memphis
City of Mexico - MP/TP/NdeM - St. Louis-Mexico City
City of Miami - IC/CoG/ACL/FEC - Chicago-Miami
City of Milwaukee "400" - CNW - Chicago-Milwaukee
City of New Orelans - IC - Chicago/St. Louis/Louisville-New Orleans
I have two more possibilities - what are they?
Well I can't find anymore unless I go to England and find the City of Carlisle and the City of York.
Texas Zepher Well I can't find anymore unless I go to England and find the City of Carlisle and the City of York.
Nope...I should had specified domestic. Still two to go.
Here's a duplication:
City of Decatur - Decatur-Chicago on N&W, this used to be the St. Louis-Chicago "Blue Bird".
CSSHEGEWISCHHere's a duplication: City of Decatur - Decatur-Chicago on N&W, this used to be the St. Louis-Chicago "Blue Bird".
That's right - one more to go.
ZephyrOverland CSSHEGEWISCH Here's a duplication: City of Decatur - Decatur-Chicago on N&W, this used to be the St. Louis-Chicago "Blue Bird". That's right - one more to go.
CSSHEGEWISCH Here's a duplication: City of Decatur - Decatur-Chicago on N&W, this used to be the St. Louis-Chicago "Blue Bird".
The only other City that I can think of right now was a stern-wheel ferry boat, the City of Baton Rouge, which, with the Louisiana, plied the Mississippi between Baton Rouge and Port Allen.
Would you count the St. Louis section of the City of New Orleans?
DeggestyZephyrOverland CSSHEGEWISCH Here's a duplication: City of Decatur - Decatur-Chicago on N&W, this used to be the St. Louis-Chicago "Blue Bird". That's right - one more to go. Should the N&W City of Decatur be included in the total count (50 years and older)? This train was created less than forty years ago.
Technically, you are correct, but I would consider any passenger train that ran before the creation of Amtrak in the "Classic Train" category. To me, being involved in these questions is an exchange of information and knowledge - and in my opinion, there is a strong focus in the immediate prewar to the postwar streamlined era to the determent to the years leading to Amtrak and the decades before the great depression. That in itself is not bad, but there is a wealth of knowledge and information covering the pre and post streamline era that exists which, I think, needs to be brought to light.
Going back to the NW City of Decatur, I'm still going to keep it in the list and I must admit the final entry I'm looking for is in the same era. I'll give this another 24 hours at which Ill give the answer to the final entry.
As for the St. Louis section of the City of New Orleans - it's still the City of New Orleans, which was mentioned in a previous post.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter