I run true to my avatar with this question. The South Shore Line, as originally built, was powered by 6600 volt AC overhead. How many true freight locomotives (not express motors) did it own that operated at that voltage, and what became of them when South Shore converted to 1500 volt DC?
Bonus question: South Shore 900-903 were originally owned by IC. Who was the equipment dealer who sold them to South Shore, and where was the firm located?
505-506 were sold to St. Clair Tunnel Co.
http://www.trainweb.org/elso/sct9176.htm
I imagine 501-502 and 503-504, but did they exist?
CSSHEGEWISCHThe South Shore Line, as originally built, was powered by 6600 volt AC overhead. How many true freight locomotives (not express motors) did it own that operated at that voltage, and what became of them when South Shore converted to 1500 volt DC? Bonus question: South Shore 900-903 were originally owned by IC. Who was the equipment dealer who sold them to South Shore, and where was the firm located?
Once again, I seem to be making a misassumption about catenary voltage. I thought that the general trend was from DC to AC for the wires and that even though AC needs higher voltages, it is supposed to be safer to work with.
Am I totally out to lunch? Or was there some not-quite-scientific reason the CSS&SB went from AC to DC....to accommodate the Little Joes or some factor I'm not yet aware of?
Inquiring minds, etc. - a.s.
al-in-chgo Once again, I seem to be making a misassumption about catenary voltage. I thought that the general trend was from DC to AC for the wires and that even though AC needs higher voltages, it is supposed to be safer to work with. Am I totally out to lunch? Or was there some not-quite-scientific reason the CSS&SB went from AC to DC....to accommodate the Little Joes or some factor I'm not yet aware of? Inquiring minds, etc. - a.s. Would the change have been made when the South Shore began using the IC Electric (you don't tell your new landlord that he has to convert his extensive fleet to suit you when your fleet is much smaller)? I don't remember the details of the South Shore's history. I did enjoy riding it to South Bend and back in April of 1971, when I was riding what I could in the Chicago area before Amtrak started up.
Would the change have been made when the South Shore began using the IC Electric (you don't tell your new landlord that he has to convert his extensive fleet to suit you when your fleet is much smaller)? I don't remember the details of the South Shore's history. I did enjoy riding it to South Bend and back in April of 1971, when I was riding what I could in the Chicago area before Amtrak started up.
Johnny
Wanswheel had the correct answer to the first question. South Shore originally went with the high voltage AC because the initial expense was less, an important consideration for most interurban promoters of that era. The conversion to 1500 volts DC was indeed made in 1926 when IC completed the electrification of its suburban service.
The question about South Shore 900-903 is still open.
http://gelwood.railfan.net/cssb/css901ads.jpg
http://transportation.northwestern.edu/docs/2006/2006.07.17.Carlson.Publication.pdf
Carl, I was glad to see the article about the IC suburban service. As I understand the history, until the IC electrified, the South Shore trains ran only to the junction, and the passengers transferred to/from IC trains; after the electrification, the South Shore trains ran all the way into the Randolph Street station. Paul, am I right?
I read somewhere that at least at one time the South Shore AC MU cars were hauled to Randolf Street from Kensington Junction by IC's Forney Tank double-direciton 2-4-4T locomotives, the same as used in regular steam suburban service. I also read that some of the IC regular DC MU cars were originally trailers used behind the steam locomotives. The steam locomotive used by the IC were more similar to the tank Fonrey locomotives that had been used on the Chicago, Manhattan, and Brooklyn elevateds than main-line steam locomotives and were intended for bi-directional operation with a headlight on the tank. The most modern similar locomotives were the 4-6-4T's used in Boston suburban service, including the Highland Branch, now Riverside "D" Green Line light rail, by the Boston and Albany of tne New York Central System. These were used as recently as 1950 in suburban service and sporadically as utility locomotives (inlcuding freight transfers on the Grand Junction Branch through Cambridge to Sommerville and East Boston) in 1952. If any one can locate a photo of a string of South Shore MU's hauled by an IC engine, this would be a find. Of course, sometimes history repeats itself in reverse, and regular IC passenger equipment got hauled by South Shore electrics on special moves for Notre Dame football games and other special events.
CSSHEGEWISCHWanswheel had the correct answer to the first question.
Texas Zepher CSSHEGEWISCHWanswheel had the correct answer to the first question.????? I though the question was, "how many freight locomotives?".
He also mentioned the only two AC locomotives owned by South Shore. I will concede on the second question. South Shore 900-903 were originally owned by Illinois Central to switch Congress Street Yard. They became surplus when IC began buying diesels for yard and transfer service. They were retired in 1941. They went to South Shore in that year to handle the wartime traffic surge, who purchased them from Iron & Steel Products of Hegewisch, IL. As an aside, Iron & Steel Products was the firm that cut up LIRR 403A and 403B, "Mike" and "Ike".
Hi all i have a couple of questions i hope you all may be able to answer? first off my dad gave me a lionel 027 2018 steem engine and i have no idea what it is worth if anything. and second i have a 2 year old son who loves trains. so i was wondering if i should let him play with is one or if i should get him another train and save the older one. any comments would be great. thanks
Wink welcome to the forums. If he's only 2 he's not going to remember a darn thing but if he breaks anything valuable like an old lionel locomotive, don't ever let him forget it.
My dad and my brother went to Notre Dame and I visited South Bend many times years ago. I rode the South Shore twice and it was fun, particulary enjoyed riding down the street.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=258886
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=259169
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=259737
How to pronounce Hegewisch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hd4qqWZM4s
On May 18, 1937 the first Super Chief left Dearborn Station at 7:15 pm and arrived at La Grande Depot in Los Angeles 36 hours and 49 minutes later, averaging 60.5 miles per hour. What was the highest speed the train reached on a 10-mile stretch in Colorado?
Mike
wanswheel On May 18, 1937 the first Super Chief left Dearborn Station at 7:15 pm and arrived at La Grande Depot in Los Angeles 36 hours and 49 minutes later, averaging 60.5 miles per hour. What was the highest speed the train reached on a 10-mile stretch in Colorado? Mike
Al - in - Stockton
winka lionel 027 2018 steem engine
http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=2018
http://www.davestrains.com/ap2018x6026T.html
i have a 2 year old son who loves trains. so i was wondering if i should let him play with is one or if i should get him another train and save the older one. any comments would be great.
Just a locomotive? http://www.lionel.com/products/catalogs/Catalog.cfm?CatalogUID=A19F8B9D-B0D0-205D-B71E34759BC76E19&PageID=777
I have always loved this one - http://www.mth-railking.com/detail.asp?item=20-3144-1 (there is one on ebay for substantially less than the list price.
I purchased a locomotive (and loop of track) for my son's 2nd Christmas. Since they were so expensive we just added a piece or two each year, and maybe sometimes on a birthday. He is now 25 and has an awesome collection that he will pass on to his children & grand children.
P.S. A better place to ask this question would have been in the Classic & Toy Trains forum. This forum is for real classic trains.
Al-in-
http://digarc.usc.edu/assetserver/controller/item/chs-m13205/CHS-14284?v=hr
That's fine. The book here says 108 though.
wanswheel Al-in- http://digarc.usc.edu/assetserver/controller/item/chs-m13205/CHS-14284?v=hr That's fine. The book here says 108 though.
My book also says 108 I guess I am getting old and my eyesight is beginning to fail. I have over 500 hardbound and over 700 softbound books in my collection and have read them all. I recently rearranged them in the bookcases and find them easily using a computer system I devised myself. I also provide my Insurance Company with a complete listing as I have my Book and DVD collection insured for replacement value. I have about six very recent books at the present I have to get to soon and read before January 15, when the new tax season starts and my recreational time becomes very limited. I only have from October 15th to January 15th as free time.
Now for my question.
Name the all Pullman Streamlined trains of the United States and Canada in order of there appearance and if replaced by newer streamlined equipment include them in the order as well? Remember we can research the questions on this forum.
wanswheelThe book here says 108 though.
passengerfanNow for my question. Name the all Pullman Streamlined trains of the United States and Canada in order of there appearance and if replaced by newer streamlined equipment include them in the order as well? Remember we can research the questions on this forum.
passengerfan Name the all Pullman Streamlined trains of the United States and Canada in order of there appearance and if replaced by newer streamlined equipment include them in the order as well? Remember we can research the questions on this forum. Al - in - Stockton
Point of clarification - do you want a listing of all Pullman Streamlined trains - as in all sleeping car trains - or streamlined trains built by Pullman Standard?
ZephyrOverland passengerfan Name the all Pullman Streamlined trains of the United States and Canada in order of there appearance and if replaced by newer streamlined equipment include them in the order as well? Remember we can research the questions on this forum. Al - in - Stockton Point of clarification - do you want a listing of all Pullman Streamlined trains - as in all sleeping car trains - or streamlined trains built by Pullman Standard?
The list is only 29 trains.One is listed three times, Two are listed twice and the others are only listed once.One is all Parlor.
Al - in - Stockton, You have really thrown me. I can think of only 16 all-pullman trains, and, of course, almost all the dates of their inauguration/equipping have escaped me.
Super Chief 1936 re-equipped later
Chief
Panama Limited 1942
Broadway Limited 1938 re-equipped later
20th Century Limited 1938 re-equipped later
Crescent (north of Atlanta) 1950
Commodore Vanderbilt Postwar
Advance Commodore Postwar
Detroiter Postwar
Florida Special Postwar
Vacationer Postwar (run in conjunction with the all-coach East Coast Champion)
Pittsburgher or was it the Pittsburgh Night Express? The NY-Pittsburgh train was all-pullman; the Philly-Pittsburgh train was not.
Cascade (briefly)
General Postwar
Spirit of St. Louis Postwar (run in conjunction with the all-coach Jeffersonian)
Capitol Limited (Washington-Chicago; it carried coaches for the Columbian Jersey City-Washington) Postwar
As recall, the New Haven had an all-parlor afternoon train, the Merchants Limited, between Boston and New York City; I rode a parlor car on it from New Haven to Boston in 1970 (it was then coach and parlor car).
Deggesty Al - in - Stockton, You have really thrown me. I can think of only 16 all-pullman trains, and, of course, almost all the dates of their inauguration/equipping have escaped me. Super Chief 1936 re-equipped later Chief Panama Limited 1942 Broadway Limited 1938 re-equipped later 20th Century Limited 1938 re-equipped later Crescent (north of Atlanta) 1950 Commodore Vanderbilt Postwar Advance Commodore Postwar Detroiter Postwar Florida Special Postwar Vacationer Postwar (run in conjunction with the all-coach East Coast Champion) Pittsburgher or was it the Pittsburgh Night Express? The NY-Pittsburgh train was all-pullman; the Philly-Pittsburgh train was not. Cascade (briefly) General Postwar Spirit of St. Louis Postwar (run in conjunction with the all-coach Jeffersonian) Capitol Limited (Washington-Chicago; it carried coaches for the Columbian Jersey City-Washington) Postwar As recall, the New Haven had an all-parlor afternoon train, the Merchants Limited, between Boston and New York City; I rode a parlor car on it from New Haven to Boston in 1970 (it was then coach and parlor car).
Panama Limited
Broadway Limited
20th Century Limited
Crescent
Commodore Vanderbilt
Advance Commodore
Detroiter
Florida Special
Vacationer
Pittsburgher
Cascade
General
Spirit of St. Louis
Capitol Limited
Lets see if anyone else adds to the list the rest of the day and I will give the answers this evening otherwise.
Here's a couple more -
Miamian - PRR/RFP/ACL/FEC New York-Miami
Lark - SP - Los Angeles-San Francisco
Commodore II - NYC - New York-Chicago
passengerfanJust the all streamlined sleeping car trains. Be it Budd Pullman or ACF.
Forty-Niner
http://pro.corbis.com/images/BE076980.jpg?size=67&uid={d640a730-4178-4eb9-9e14-dcc54f800f1e}
passengerfanYou got 21 of the 29 and one of those I did not have on my list the Advance Commodore Vanderbilt.
Pittsburgher?
Panama Limited <-- previously noted but this one was truely all Pullman except the baggage-dorm
Forty-Niner 1937-1941 questionable if these are "really" streamlined as they were heavyweights with streamlined roofs and skirts.
wanswheel Forty-Niner http://pro.corbis.com/images/BE076980.jpg?size=67&uid={d640a730-4178-4eb9-9e14-dcc54f800f1e}
The Forty-Niner was primarily a heavyweight train with streamstyled cars. The last two cars were lightweight and articulated, though.
Here is the List I was able to compile with dates. I have them in my computer so they are easy to call up if needed.
The list includes a couple of trains that were streamlined but may have had a couple of heavyweights.
SUPER CHIEF May 18, 1937
FORTY NINER June 8, 1937
CHIEF January 31, 1938
SUPER CHIEF (2nd) February 22, 1938
Twentieth Century Limited June 13, 1938
Broadway Limited June 13, 1938
Liberty Limited June 15, 1938
General June 15, 1938
Spirit of St. Louis June 15, 1938
Capitol Limited November 23, 1938
Treasure Island Special (2nd Season Only) June 22, 1940
Arizona Limited December 15, 1940
Lark July 10, 1941
Panama Limited May 1, 1942
Super Chief (Daily) February 29, 1948
Twentieth Century Limited (2nd) September 15, 1948
Broadway Limited (2nd) September 15, 1948
Advanced Commodore Vanderbilt June 19, 1949
Commodore Vanderbilt June 19, 1949
Detroiter June 19, 1949
General (2nd)June 26, 1949
Pittsburgher September 15, 1949
Merchants Limited (Parlor) September 26, 1949
Florida Special December 12, 1949
Crescent Limited (North of Atlanta only) March 1, 1950
Miamian March 25, 1950
Cascade August 13, 1950
City of Los Angeles (May 20, 1954)
Ocean (Canadas only all Pullman train) May 29, 1955
Only the second season of the Treasure Island Special was streamlined and it being a summer train it was ideal as a match for the new winter season Arizona Limited. They both used much of the same equipment. I listed all three of the Super Chiefs, both Twentieth Century Limiteds, both Broadway Limiteds.
I guess since Deggesty answered the most he gets the next question.
The first part should be easy; the second part may call for some thought.
What was the Chessie? What was the B&O's role in the decision not to operate the train?
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