Trains.com

Classic Train questions (50 years or older) Locked

81213 views
710 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, November 4, 2008 8:20 PM

wanswheel

ZephyrOverland, you're 200% right. Add only the Washingtonian, indirectly named for George, because my grandfather drove it on the CV in the steam era.

 

I was considering the Washingtonian but I decided not to include it because the train was named after the city (which is named after the president) and the fact that the northbound run was named the Montrealer, again after the city.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, November 6, 2008 6:31 AM

 I guess it's my turn to ask a question....

 Name at least four North American passenger trains that used a specific clock time in their name.  An example would be "8:35 Limited" (not a real name).  I'm not looking for any names with "morning", "afternoon", "evening" or "night" designations, and to keep this small, I'm also not looking for any "midnight" designations, even though technically "midnight" is a specific time (I'm aware of about 30 train names with "midnight" in their name.)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Friday, November 7, 2008 4:43 PM

SP Noon Daylight

SP Sunset Limited

NH Sundown

B&M Minuteman, every minute counts

NYC Paul Revere, a midnight specialist

CN Ocean Limited, would you believe clock time at low tide?

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, November 7, 2008 7:26 PM

I can't think of a single one, unless the 400 in all the Chicago & Northwestern trains means 4:00.  I would guess every commuter train out there is considered named by its clock time.  "I'm tak'n the 9:15".

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Friday, November 7, 2008 7:47 PM

Texas Zepher

I can't think of a single one, unless the 400 in all the Chicago & Northwestern trains means 4:00.  I would guess every commuter train out there is considered named by its clock time.  "I'm tak'n the 9:15".

Texas Z,

I too can't think of a single one either. The origin of the 400 name came from the schedule of the original Twin Cities 400 which ran the 400 miles between Chicago and Minneapolis in 400 minutes. The route was actually 409 miles and the scheduled time was IIRC 6 hrs 50 mins (410 mins). Close enough on both counts to justify the 400 name.

Mark

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Friday, November 7, 2008 8:10 PM

KCSfan

Texas Zepher

I can't think of a single one, unless the 400 in all the Chicago & Northwestern trains means 4:00.  I would guess every commuter train out there is considered named by its clock time.  "I'm tak'n the 9:15".

Texas Z,

I too can't think of a single one either. The origin of the 400 name came from the schedule of the original Twin Cities 400 which ran the 400 miles between Chicago and Minneapolis in 400 minutes. The route was actually 409 miles and the scheduled time was IIRC 6 hrs 50 mins (410 mins). Close enough on both counts to justify the 400 name.

Mark

It was actually 419.2 miles, since it ran through Milwaukee. The route through Madison was 409.2 miles.

I can't think of any train name which had an actual time in it; I'm only a would-be connoisseur.

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Friday, November 7, 2008 8:17 PM

wanswheel

SP Noon Daylight

SP Sunset Limited

NH Sundown

B&M Minuteman, every minute counts

NYC Paul Revere, a midnight specialist

CN Ocean Limited, would you believe clock time at low tide?

 

 

The Noon Daylight Thumbs Up

The other names....nope.

Remember, an actual time should be included in the name, not time of day...... 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Friday, November 7, 2008 9:32 PM

Good thing there's only 720 clock times on either side of noon.

The New York Times, Jan. 9, 1943: The Reading's Seven O'Clocker from Philadelphia has been discontinued after some twenty years of special service.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, November 8, 2008 10:52 AM

wanswheel

Good thing there's only 720 clock times on either side of noon.

The New York Times, Jan. 9, 1943: The Reading's Seven O'Clocker from Philadelphia has been discontinued after some twenty years of special service.

 

That's another one.  Thumbs Up

The Seven O'Clocker was a Philadelphia-Jersey City train via the Reading and the Central Railroad of New Jersey.

At least two more to go.  A clue - one of them is from north of the border.

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, November 10, 2008 10:23 AM

 Since it's gotten pretty quiet here I'll give another 24 hours for submissions.  At that time I'll give the rest of the answers.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Monday, November 10, 2008 3:50 PM

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Monday, November 10, 2008 4:05 PM

Wabash unspecial, just the Midnight, Chicago to St. Louis

Ten O' Clock Limited, B & A Springfield Line, Boston to New York

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, November 10, 2008 4:48 PM

wanswheel

Wabash unspecial, just the Midnight, Chicago to St. Louis

Ten O' Clock Limited, B & A Springfield Line, Boston to New York

 

Remember, I wasn't going to include Midnight trains because there were so many.

As for the Ten O' Clock Limited, that's a new one on me.  What years did this train run?  Was it also named the same on the New Haven from Springfield to New York?

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Monday, November 10, 2008 10:48 PM

I think the Ten O' Clock Limited is like many long-ago trains that left big city stations at the top of the hour, in that the train's name seems more apt to have been applied informally by the ridership than officially by the railroad. Nevertheless its name was rendered in capital letters in an old book that was not about trains, with a slivver of data, Boston & Albany train to New York via the Springfield Line.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:46 PM
wanswheel

I think the Ten O' Clock Limited is like many long-ago trains that left big city stations at the top of the hour, in that the train's name seems more apt to have been applied informally by the ridership than officially by the railroad. Nevertheless its name was rendered in capital letters in an old book that was not about trains, with a slivver of data, Boston & Albany train to New York via the Springfield Line.

The names that I have been looking for were "official" in that they were listed in the Official Guide or railroad timetables.  I've seen instances where unofficial or incorrect names were attributed to trains in photographs or articles but again, I'm looking for names that were designated by the railroad.  So I won't include this name with the answers I'm looking for. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:56 PM

At this point, in order to move this thread along, here are the answers that I was looking for of North American Passenger Trains that had an actual clock time in their name:

- Noon Daylight - Southern Pacific - Los Angeles- San Francisco

- Seven O' Clocker - Reading/Central Railroad of New Jersey - Philadelphia-Jersey City

- 11 O' Clock Katy - Katy - San Antonio-St. Louis

- Eleven-Fifty Nine - Canadian Pacific - Monteal-Hamilton 

- Noon Flyer - Michigan Central/Grand Rapids and Indiana - Chicago-Grand Rapids

- Noon Accomodation - New York and Washington Air Line - Jersey City-Washington

Wanswheel, why don't you take it from here and ask the next question, since you got two of them.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 6:08 AM
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:43 AM

wanswheel
What trains had Strata Domes?

Eewh, that is harder than it sounds at first.  I believe a Strata-Dome was a Pullman Standard dome with a lower than normal profile for the dome so that the cars could fit through low clearances on the B&O out of Washington D.C.  As such a distinguising characteristic is the angled supports for the windows in the dome.  A PS normal height dome car has just normal rectangular windows (Santa Fe's Pleasure Dome), while the angled supports on a strata-dome make the windows have rhombohedral glass panes.

So the easy part of this question is that these ran in the B&O trains: Columbian, Capitol Limited, and National Limited.

The harder part is that later these were used on Amtrak trains. I have no idea or references that would tell me which.  Also I believe at least one of these cars escaped from the B&O to service on the D&RGW running on the Royal Gorge, and possibly the Yampa Valley Flyer. 

I also have one reference that calls a dome car on a Missouri Pacific a strata-dome, but I doubt it.  I believe it is a mistake by the author.  I believe it is a regular height dome. 

Finally, one might consider the one-off "Train of Tomorrow" dome coaches to be strata-domes whether they technically were or not I do not know.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:22 AM

Texas Zepher

wanswheel
What trains had Strata Domes?

Eewh, that is harder than it sounds at first.  I believe a Strata-Dome was a Pullman Standard dome with a lower than normal profile for the dome so that the cars could fit through low clearances on the B&O out of Washington D.C.  As such a distinguising characteristic is the angled supports for the windows in the dome.  A PS normal height dome car has just normal rectangular windows (Santa Fe's Pleasure Dome), while the angled supports on a strata-dome make the windows have rhombohedral glass panes.

So the easy part of this question is that these ran in the B&O trains: Columbian, Capitol Limited, and National Limited.

The harder part is that later these were used on Amtrak trains. I have no idea or references that would tell me which.  Also I believe at least one of these cars escaped from the B&O to service on the D&RGW running on the Royal Gorge, and possibly the Yampa Valley Flyer. 

I also have one reference that calls a dome car on a Missouri Pacific a strata-dome, but I doubt it.  I believe it is a mistake by the author.  I believe it is a regular height dome. 

Finally, one might consider the one-off "Train of Tomorrow" dome coaches to be strata-domes whether they technically were or not I do not know.

So far as I can tell, only the B&O called its domes "Strata Domes." The MoP caled its domes "Planatarium Domes," and the Santa Fe called its domes that were built for the Super Chief "Pleasure Domes." The Wabash had no special name for its low profile dome cars. 

Johnny

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:48 PM
wanswheel
Nice pictures.

The Shenandoah carried the third Strata Dome sleeper--west on odd dates (except the 31st) & east on even dates.

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 961 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:42 PM

Texas Zepher

So the easy part of this question is that these ran in the B&O trains: Columbian, Capitol Limited, and National Limited.

I think the Shenandoah had strata-dome service as well.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:21 PM

ZephyrOverland

Texas Zepher

So the easy part of this question is that these ran in the B&O trains: Columbian, Capitol Limited, and National Limited.

I think the Shenandoah also had strata-dome service as well.

Yes, the Shenadoah (but not the National Limited) carried a Strata Dome sleeper--west on odd dates except the 31st and east on even dates.

Johnny

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:46 AM

These links contain 99% of everything I know about Strata Domes

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=44541

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=45638

And from 1963, a ride with my father on the westbound Capitol Limited. What sticks is the dome had a clunky look, like a '49 Ford 2-piece windshield, compared to curved wrap-around on the Vista Dome.

Texas Zepher, speaking of Train of Tomorrow, it's your turn to Astra next question.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: West Coast
  • 4,122 posts
Posted by espeefoamer on Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:28 PM

The Wabash Pullman Standard dome parlor,along with a Budd dome coach, eneded up on the Southern.I rode the dome parlor on the Southern Crescent in 1978.

Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool.
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:01 PM

wanswheel
Texas Zepher, speaking of Train of Tomorrow, it's your turn to Astra next question.

Astra Q - Today many children build their Thomas the Tank train tracks with a turnout right there in the main line.  "What real Railroad had a turntable built on the mainline track?"

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:25 PM

Texas Zepher

wanswheel
Texas Zepher, speaking of Train of Tomorrow, it's your turn to Astra next question.

Astra Q - Today many children build their Thomas the Tank train tracks with a turnout right there in the main line.  "What real Railroad had a turntable built on the mainline track?"

Rio Grande Southern

Mark

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Friday, November 14, 2008 7:34 AM
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, November 14, 2008 11:55 AM

KCSfan
Rio Grande Southern

Right part of the country.  Just a little too far west.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, November 14, 2008 12:01 PM

wanswheel
Rio Grande Southern photos by William Henry Jackson
...
Silverton turntable

That is the right location (corkscrew gultch) and turn table, but that picture doesn't belong in that set with the Rio Grande Southern ones.  Different railroad.    By the way, where the one locomotive is sitting by itself, it is on a 5% grade.  That steep grade is why the locomotive had to be turned.  They found it impossible to push a train up that hill, it had to be pulled.

P.S.  I'll take either the real name of the railroad or its nick name.

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter