Classic Train questions (50 years or older)

[KCSfan]

passengerfan

Mark

I have a few questions. The Zephyr Rocket was never assigned lightweight streamlined sleeping cars, The Silver Streak Zephyr was a day train never assigned lightweight streamlined sleeping cars. The Olympian Hiawatha never operated any through sleepers the entire consist operated Chicago - Seattle/Portland. Although the GN Empire Builder and NP North Coast Limited operated over the CB&Q between Chicago - St. Paul the CB&Q was a subsidiary of the two parent roads. The same on the west end with the SP&S who operated the Portland Sections of the premier trains of the NP and GN. The secondary Western Star of the GN operated summers with off line streamlined sleepers both from the east coast and west coast destined to Glacier National Park. These were travel groups who in some cases stayed aboard the sleeping cars for the Glacier Park visits, I can find no record of the Nebraska Zephyr carrying a through sleeping car to Great Falls and the sleeping cars to Great Falls and Butte that originated in Omaha and Lincoln were all heavyweights. The Twin Star Rocket sleeping cars were owned by the CRI&P and were not forwarded by any other road. The only sleeping cars on the Denver Zephyr that were forwarded by another road were the four daily cars to Colorado Springs that operated on the rear of the Royal Gorge both to and from Denver. The IC carried no off line sleeping cars in the Panama Limited except for one winter when leased NP dome sleeping cars operated and the same was true for the City of Miami for several winters. The KCS Southern Belle operated only there own sleeping cars in that particular train.

Its early for me late night last night and I need some coffee.

Al - in - Stockton   

Al,

Many thanks for offering to post my reply for me but since my "lost" mesages finally appeared that is no longer necessary.

Judging from your comments above I may have misinterpreted your original question. Were you asking only for streamlined sleeping car routes on interline trains? If so a number of those I listed can be deleted (e.g., Panama Ltd, 20th Century, Southern Belle, Olympian Hiawatha, etc.) since these were not interline trains and operated only over a single railroad.

You are probably correct about the sleepers on the Zephyr Rocket, and Silver Streak and Nebraska Zephyrs being hevyweights. I know the Burlington did indeed run non streamlined sleepers in some of its otherwise streamlined trains. My '54 OG shows the Nebraska Zephyr carrying both an Omaha to Denver and a Chicago to Sheridan/Billings/Great Falls sleeper which may well have been non streamlined heavyweights.

Mark

 

[passengerfan]

wanswheel

These trains were advertised as running through sleepers.

NYC 20th Century Limited - ATSF Chief

NYC Lake Shore Limited - CNW-UP-SP Overland Limited

NYC Commodore Vanderbilt - CNW-UP Transcontinental Limited

NYC Commodore Vanderbilt - CB&Q-D&RG-WP Exposition Flyer

NYC Advance Commodore Vanderbilt - CNW-UP Los Angeles Limited

NYC Iroquois - RI-SP Golden State Limited

NYC Chicagoan - CNW-UP City of Los Angeles

PRR Broadway Limited - ATSF Chief (and eastbound)

PRR Broadway Limited - RI-SP Golden State Limited (and eastbound)

PRR General - CNW-UP Los Angeles Limited

PRR Pennsylvania Limited - CNW-UP City of Los Angeles

PRR American - Frisco Meteor

PRR General - CN-UP Transcontinental Limited (and eastbound)

PRR Golden Arrow - RI-SP Golden State Limited

PRR Manhattan Limited - CNW-UP-SP Overland Limited

PRR The General - CB&Q-D&RG-WP Exposition Flyer (and eastbound)

SP-UP-CNW Overland Limited - PRR Pennsylvanian

B&O Capitol Limited - ATSF Chief

B&O Diplomat - Frisco Meteor

Frisco Meteor - B&O National Limited

B&O Diplomat - Frisco-M-K-T Texas Special

M-K-T- Frisco Texas Special - B&O National Limited

PRR American - Frisco-M-K-T Texas Special (through to Mexico City)

In addition Ifound the following:

AT&SF Super Chief - NYC Twentieth Century Limited

AT&SF Super Chief - PRR Broadway Limited

AT&SF Super Chief - B&O Capitol Limited

B&O National Limited - MP Texas Eagle (Only Slumbercoach) to San Antonio

I guess the ACL, Sou and SAL through trains to New York could be counted in this list as well. Such as the Champions Silver Meteor, Silver Star and Silver Comet.

For sure the Southern Royal Palm as it had sleeping cars originating on the NYC in Buffalo, Chicago , Detroit and Cleveland.

SP Cascade - UP-NP Poll Trains Portland -Seattle

UP City of Portland Chicago - Seattle via UP Pool train Portland - Seattle

Sou Crescent - SP Sunset

CRI&P Minneapolis - KC Twin Star Rocket - CRI&P/SP Golden State Los Angeles

There were several Washington - New York trains that went to St. Louis we haven't mentioned among them the PRR Penn Texas with through cars for the MP Texas Eagles and through cars for the Frisco/Katy Texas Special. 

That is the only ones I can think of in addition to your list Wans wheel

Anyway It is your question.

Al - in - Stockton 

[Deggesty]

Al-in Chicago, you ask what company built the Pioneer Zephyr? Doesn't everybody know that Budd built this train? Incidentally, according to From Zephyr to Amtrak (yes, I cheat; I use this as a reference) Budd built all of the lightweight equipment that the Q bought, except for a pendulum car. Who built this car?

[ZephyrOverland]

passengerfan

In addition Ifound the following:

AT&SF Super Chief - NYC Twentieth Century Limited

AT&SF Super Chief - PRR Broadway Limited

AT&SF Super Chief - B&O Capitol Limited

B&O National Limited - MP Texas Eagle (Only Slumbercoach) to San Antonio

I guess the ACL, Sou and SAL through trains to New York could be counted in this list as well. Such as the Champions Silver Meteor, Silver Star and Silver Comet.

For sure the Southern Royal Palm as it had sleeping cars originating on the NYC in Buffalo, Chicago , Detroit and Cleveland.

SP Cascade - UP-NP Poll Trains Portland -Seattle

UP City of Portland Chicago - Seattle via UP Pool train Portland - Seattle

Sou Crescent - SP Sunset

CRI&P Minneapolis - KC Twin Star Rocket - CRI&P/SP Golden State Los Angeles

There were several Washington - New York trains that went to St. Louis we haven't mentioned among them the PRR Penn Texas with through cars for the MP Texas Eagles and through cars for the Frisco/Katy Texas Special. 

Al - in - Stockton 

Here some additional through sleeping car routes not mentioned:

St. Louis-Seattle via City of St. Louis, Idahoan and Portland-Seattle pool service 

New Orleans-San Francisco via MP and ATSF

Kansas City-Miami via the Kansas City-Florida Special and existing FEC service

Hot Springs-Chicago via MP's Southerner and GM&O's Midnight Special

Chicago-Hoboken via NKP and DL&W

St. Louis-Richmond, VA via NYC Knickerbocker and Carolina Special and C&O's Sportsman

Richmond, VA-Chicago via C&O's Sportsman and NYC Lake Shore Limited at Toledo

Chicago-Oklahoma City via GM&O Abraham Lincoln and Frisco Will Rodgers

Toronto-New York via NYC New York-Buffalo and Buffalo-Toronto via NYC-THB-CP trains

New York-Richmond, VA via PRR and RFP trains

Sleepers from Louisville, Memphis and Nashville to New York via L&N and PRR

New York-Louisville via PRR and C&O's George Washington 

For the through service from the South to PRR points via Washington, I wouldn't include through trains such as the Champions, Silver Meteor and Star, etc.. since most of the consist from those trains went through north to New York.  But, there are a number of through cars from the South that were transferred to existing PRR services.  Trying to determine what cars went to which PRR trains is hefty job onto itself.

 

[Deggesty]

Al, here are a few more through lightweight sleepers.

Some of the PRR through sleepers, especially those on the ACL and SAL premium trains were operated between New York and Washington without any switching in Washington; others were operated on other PRR trains and were switched in Washington.

PRR/Sou:

Peach Queen–New York to Winston-Salem, Raleigh, Greensboro, Charlotte, and Greenville

Asheville Special–New York and Asheville; Winston-Salem to New York

Augusta Special–New York and Augusta; Raleigh to New York

Piedmont Limited–New York and Charlotte; Charlotte to New York (the return of the car that came in on the Peach Queen); Greensboro to New York

Crescent–New York and Atlanta; Greenville to New York--Of course, the through cars to New Orleans (NY-NO, Washington-NO, and Washington-LA) were operated on the West Point Route and L&N south of Atlanta.

 

PRR/Sou/N&W:

Pelican–New York and New Orleans, Knoxville, Bristol

Birmingham Special–New York and Birmingham

 

NYC/Sou:

Carolina Special–Chicago to Asheville

Carolina Special/James Whitcomb Riley –Asheville to Chicago

Ohio Special/Royal Palm & New Royal Palm–Detroit to Miami

Royal Palm & New Royal Palm/Michigan Special–Miami to Detroit (also, there was through service between Buffalo and Miami and Cleveland and Miami on the New Royal Palm

 

PRR/N&W:

(Pennsylvania Limited wb & Penn Texas eb)/(no name) via Harrisburg & Hagerstown: New York and Roanoke

Pocahontas/Red Bird–Norfolk to Chicago

Union/Pocahontas–Chicago to Norfolk

 

PRR/RF&P/ACL/N&W: Cannonball (on N&W) New York to Norfolk

PRR/RF&P/ACL:

Havana Special–New York-Wilmington & Tampa

Palmetto–New York-Augusta & Savannah

 

PRR/C&O:

F.F.V.–New York-Hot Springs, White Sulphur Springs, & Ashland; NY to Louisville

George Washington–Louisville & Ashland to New York;

 

NYC/C&O:

Carolina Special/Sportsman–Chicago to Newport News & to Clifton Forge

Capital City Special/Sportsman–Cleveland to Clifton Forge

Knickerbocker/Carolina Special/Sportsman–St. Louis to Richmond

George Washington/Chicago Special–Newport News to Chicago

Sportsman/Lakeshore (via Toledo)–Charlottesville to Chicago

Sportsman/Night Special–Clifton Forge to Cleveland

 

C&EI/L&N: Georgian–Chicago and Atlanta

DL&W/NKP: Westerner/5 (wb); 6/New Yorker (eb)--Hoboken-Chicago

C&NW/UP: North American/City of LA--Minneapolis-Los Angeles

Almost all of the Chicago-West Coast sleepers that were operated by the C&NW east of Omaha were also operated by the MILW after the changeover.

 It's sad that we have so much less passenger service than we had fifty years ago, but my wife and I rejoice that we can still travel by rail (even though the only eastbound train through Salt Lake CIty comes through at a horrible time). But--were it not for the pending advent of Amtrak, we probably would never have met; we met on the eastbound City of Portland 4-15-71, when we were on the train for the same reason--to ride it while it was possible.

[Deggesty]

I forgot to put this one in:

SLSF/Sou/FEC: Kansas City-Florida Special--Kansas City to Jacksonville (to Miami in the winter)

[passengerfan]

How lucky you are to have a railfan wife ? I think. Mine too enjoys rail travel , but if I want to take photos of trains I must first leave her at a shopping mall with credit cards while I do my thing.

She is a very nervous flyer and unfortunately we are forced by time constraints to take a trip to Orlando in less than two weeks. Originally had it all planned out to travel by Amtrak from westcoast to Washington DC then on to Florida. Needing a deluxe Bedroom all the way. We would then have been able to spend one day with grand daughter the whole purpose of the trip. This way I can spend eight days with grand daughter. Oh and by the way the round trip airfare was 560.00 for two while Amtrak and flight back was 2160.00 for two.

Thanks for the additional train listings I am working on as complete a list as I can using the OGs from the 1950's when completed which will take awhile with election and the previously mentioned trip almost here. When completeed the list will list type of sleeping car (4-4-2 10-6 12-4 etc.), route and RRs involved with origin and destination. Will share with anyone who wants one or maybe just list it under Classic Trains is best.

Al - in - Stockton

 

[daveklepper]

Additional Interline streamlined sleeping cars:

Summer only 1939 and 1940"  East Wind, Washington DC - Portland and Bangor, ME: PRR, NYNH&H, B&M, MC

State of Maine:  NY (GCT) - Concord, NH, Portland and Bangor, ME: NYNH&H, B&M, MC

The Gull:   Boston - Halifax:   B&M, MC, CN    (Any B&M sleepers were heavyweights but the CN supplied a lightweight)

Montrealer-Washingtonian:   PRR, NYNH&H, B&M, CV, CN; Washington-White River Junction only, PRR-NYNH&H, B&M, CV, one car each way, Pullman built Dartmouth College I and Dartmouth College II.

Montreal Limited:    NYC, D&H, CP

Woverine (one car+coaches)   NY-Toronto:   NYC, TH&B, CP

Federal (or Federal Express)   Boston-Washington, NYNH&H-PRR. Also, one car each way Providence-Washington, one car each way Springfield-Washington DC

New York - Raleigh, SC:   PRR. Southern!  one car each way

New York - Norfolk:   PRR, RF&P, ACL, N&W, one car each way.

Shreveport - St. Louis    KCS, MP

Wichita - Denver      MP, DRG&W   (Mixed train and Colorado Eagle)

Chicago - Toronto via Detroit,  NYC, CP

 

Except for East Wind and the Gull, rode 'em.

[ZephyrOverland]

daveklepper

Additional Interline streamlined sleeping cars:

Summer only 1939 and 1940"  East Wind, Washington DC - Portland and Bangor, ME: PRR, NYNH&H, B&M, MC

I believe the East Wind only carried coaches since it was a daytime train. 

 

[passengerfan]

ZephyrOverland

daveklepper

Additional Interline streamlined sleeping cars:

Summer only 1939 and 1940"  East Wind, Washington DC - Portland and Bangor, ME: PRR, NYNH&H, B&M, MC

I believe the East Wind only carried coaches since it was a daytime train. 

 

Looking at your list reminded me of another one no one has listed the Great Northern operated the Winnipeg Limited with a through CN sleeper from Vancouver to St. Paul.that operated in the Super Continental west of Winnipeg. The sleeper was a 4-6-4 and was a summer only service.

Al - in - Stockton 

[Deggesty]

The Bar Harbor Express (PRR, NH, B&M, MeC) carried throguh lightweight sleepers Philadelphia-Ellsworth & Portland; Washington-Ellsworth; New York-Ellsworth, Rockland, & Plymouth. It also carried some cars that apparently were rebuilt heavyweights.

The Federal and the Quaker caried a mixture of heavyweight and lightweight.

The Federal carried not only Washington-Boston lightweights, but also Washington-Providence and Washington-Springfield lightweights.

The Quaker was a Philadelphia-Boston train.

Incidentally, not all cars with roomettes were lightweights, but were rebuilt heavyweights. From Zephyr to Amtrak (which claims to list all lightweight cars built for mainline service) does not list for PRR, NH, B&M, or MeC such a configuration as 12 roomettes, 2 single bedrooms, 3 double bedrooms which was operated between Philadelphia and Rockland on the Bar Harbor Express. They may have been built for another road, but I believe that they were rebuilds.

I omitted one lightweight from ACL's Palmetto--Washington-Wilmington.

[daveklepper]

Apologies about the East Wind.  Must have been thinking about the Bar Harbor.   After about 1962, all sleepers on the Federal were lightweights because the last of the heavyweights had been retired and demand was reduced anyway.   Similarly with the State of Maine, which was soon combined with the Owl, a NY all-sleeper train until the Naragansette was discontinued, then it carried coaches also.   Both the Owl and the N were overnight Boston NY trains, with almost half the time of one's sleep on the Owl being spent in the two terminal stations.  The last heavyweight sleepers on the New Haven were the "dollar-saver-sleepers", 12-1's, one each way, on the Owl, where one got a lower berth for as little as two dollars over a first class fare.   The Naragansette usually used some of the remodelled prewar American Flyers, probably the former grille cars now with interior coach and lounge seating like the postwar 8600's, but in heavy traffic periods, regular prewar 8200's were added and postwar 8600's.  Every attempt was made to keep prewar non-air-conditioned coaches off this train and other NY-Boston trains as well.   The remodeled American Flyers were also a mainstay of the Montrealer and State of Maine.  Coaches were not generally air-conditioned, except for an occasional rare American Flyer (B&M or NYNH&H), and the heavywieght sleepers had ice air-conditioning.

Oh, yes, the Quaker at one time carreid a Boston - Pittsburgh sleeper, but I am unsure whether it was a heavyweight or lightweight, and it didn't last long in the postwar period.  Also, I don't know which day train it was on to and from Pittsburgh.   Its main use seems to be for people going to places like Paoli, Lancaster, Harrisburgh, Altoona, Johnstown, etc.

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

Al-in Chicago, you ask what company built the Pioneer Zephyr? Doesn't everybody know that Budd built this train? Incidentally, according to From Zephyr to Amtrak (yes, I cheat; I use this as a reference) Budd built all of the lightweight equipment that the Q bought, except for a pendulum car. Who built this car?

There were three Pendulum cars built and sold to three different railroads. All were coaches and built by the Pacific Railway Equipment or Pacific Railway Supply cant remeber which and am too lazy to go in the otrher room and look it up. One went to the CB&Q and was the only one of the three named carrying the name Silver Pendulum. The CB&Q used this car just about everywhere during its CB&Q career even being assigned to operate behind one of the roads doodlebugs and it was painted silver during its entire CB&Q career. I have never seen it operate in a full Budd trainset or seen it in a picture in one of the Zephyrs.

The AT&SF car also painted silver throughout its career and spent its entire career pretty much in California specifically operating in one of the San Diegan consists. Never heard of it operating out of the state of California though.

The third car was owned by the GN and although delivered in Silver paint after WW II was repainted in the GN Empire Builder colors. Originally assigned to the Puget Sounder between Seattle and Vancouver. Became an extra car when the Internationals entered service in 1950 and could be found either operating in the GN Seattle - Portland pool trains or the Internationals and on rare occasions even the Cascadian. The GN squared the windows on there Pendulum car the only road to make serious changes to there Pendulum cars appearance.  I am one of the few people I know to have ridden on all three cars at one time or another.

 Unfortunately none of these unique cars were saved.

Al - in - Stockton    

 

[Deggesty]

Yes, Al, it was Pacific Railway Equipment. I knew that the Santa Fe had a pendulum car which was usually operated between LA and San Diego; I did not know that the GN had one.

After lookng them up, I see that all three were built in 1940. Apparently the railroads saw no advantage to them, so no more were ordered.

[al-in-chgo]

Pendulum means tilting equipment, right?  Like the Accela or the Pendolino?   - a.s.

 

[passengerfan]

al-in-chgo

Pendulum means tilting equipment, right?  Like the Accela or the Pendolino?   - a.s.

 

 

Al

They were tilting cars although I don't think on the routes assigned and with other equipment it mattered much. The suspension they used was mounted high up and directly connected to the trucks so the body of the cars could swing out like a pendulum on curves. Like I say I never remembered any pendulum affect on any of the three. I also find it interesting that all three roads that owned those cars were pro passenger and all three became merger partners.

Al - in - Stockton 

[wanswheel]

There's a picture of Silver Pendulum

http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/53141

http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/data/753/silverpendulum.jpg

[Texas Chief]

passengerfan

Deggesty

Al-in Chicago, you ask what company built the Pioneer Zephyr? Doesn't everybody know that Budd built this train? Incidentally, according to From Zephyr to Amtrak (yes, I cheat; I use this as a reference) Budd built all of the lightweight equipment that the Q bought, except for a pendulum car. Who built this car?

There were three Pendulum cars built and sold to three different railroads. All were coaches and built by the Pacific Railway Equipment or Pacific Railway Supply cant remeber which and am too lazy to go in the otrher room and look it up. One went to the CB&Q and was the only one of the three named carrying the name Silver Pendulum. The CB&Q used this car just about everywhere during its CB&Q career even being assigned to operate behind one of the roads doodlebugs and it was painted silver during its entire CB&Q career. I have never seen it operate in a full Budd trainset or seen it in a picture in one of the Zephyrs.

The AT&SF car also painted silver throughout its career and spent its entire career pretty much in California specifically operating in one of the San Diegan consists. Never heard of it operating out of the state of California though.

The third car was owned by the GN and although delivered in Silver paint after WW II was repainted in the GN Empire Builder colors. Originally assigned to the Puget Sounder between Seattle and Vancouver. Became an extra car when the Internationals entered service in 1950 and could be found either operating in the GN Seattle - Portland pool trains or the Internationals and on rare occasions even the Cascadian. The GN squared the windows on there Pendulum car the only road to make serious changes to there Pendulum cars appearance.  I am one of the few people I know to have ridden on all three cars at one time or another.

 Unfortunately none of these unique cars were saved.

Al - in - Stockton    

 

Al, I think the ATSF car was the ONLY car the Santa Fe owned that was actually painted blue. Much to Rivarossi's and IHC's chagrin.

Dick

Texas Chief

[Deggesty]

Wanswheel, very nice. I trust you did not describe the trains named under the picture, since the Blackhawk was the Q's overnight train between Chicago and the Twin Cities, and the Western Star was the GN's train. Also, all thre cars were built in 1940 and, I expect, delivered right after they were built.

[al-in-chgo]

from prior post from Deggesty:

"Al-in Chicago, you ask what company built the Pioneer Zephyr? Doesn't everybody know that Budd built this train?"  - 

Why, yes I know; in fact that was one of my questions on the History Quiz (Gen. Disc.) not too far back.  --  al-in-chgo

[wanswheel]

New lightweight Zephyr on trial in North Philadelphia on April 17, 1934

http://pro.corbis.com/images/U260729ACME.jpg?size=67&uid={3e8e5129-5b67-40ce-a28f-b9f8b1df4a0d}

http://pro.corbis.com/images/U260729AACME.jpg?size=67&uid={83ce546e-b8b1-4fb0-b0cf-f49ae6a6e701}

http://pro.corbis.com/images/BE081466.jpg?size=67&uid={7193d564-1a61-49fb-9429-1c59815a36de}

Zephyr's christening in Philadelphia on April 18, 1934

http://pro.corbis.com/images/U694683INP.jpg?size=67&uid={027c3e7b-f2a6-4ce7-b663-aa66fe8bc869}

http://pro.corbis.com/images/U694714INP.jpg?size=67&uid={29462fb6-eba8-40e8-adfb-44dd5c7c2946}

 

[passengerfan]

How about a follow up question to my earlier post on through sleeping cars. This is not about through sleeping cars.

How many Railroads operated Slumbercoaches or sleepercoaches as they were known and on what trains did they operate,and what routes this can be kind of tricky as not all were Budd built that were used in these type services?

Al - in - Stockton 

[wanswheel]

Might see a Pennsy car on the CZ in this picture

http://texashistory.unt.edu/data/SUM2007/MARD/box_02/upl-meta-pth-28736/0365.jpg

[ZephyrOverland]

passengerfan

How about a follow up question to my earlier post on through sleeping cars. This is not about through sleeping cars.

How many Railroads operated Slumbercoaches or sleepercoaches as they were known and on what trains did they operate,and what routes this can be kind of tricky as not all were Budd built that were used in these type services?

Al - in - Stockton 

 

NYC - New York-Chicago - 20th Century Limited

           Chicago-Boston - New England States

           New York-Detroit - Wolverine

           New York-Cleveland - Fifth Avenue-Cleveland Limited

           New York-Cincinnati - Ohio State Limited

CBQ/DRGW - Chicago-Denver-Colorado Springs - Denver Zephyr

NP - Chicago-Seattle - North Coast Limited

        Chicago-St. Paul-Seattle - Mainstreeter

B&O - Baltimore-Washington-Chicago - Columbian and Capitol Limited

B&O/MP Baltimore-Washington-San Antonio - National Limited/Texas Eagle

All Slumbercoaches were built by Budd EXCEPT for the NYC Sleepercoaches that were rebuilt from 22 Roomette sleepers.

There is at least one instance of non-Slumbercoaches being used as Slumbercoaches: MILW/UP City of Denver briefly used a 22 Roomette sleeper as a Slumbercoach to counter the Slumbercoach service being offered on the Denver Zephyr. 

[daveklepper]

In addition, you can add the Chicago - Twin Cities Burlington overnight train, the Blackhawk it was competitive with the Milwaukee's Pioneer, and for a while was running a slumbercoach/sleepercoach as the only sleeper, without a first class sleeper.   On occasion, a number of railroads substituted some lightweight sleeper, 22-romette car, 6-and10, whatever, when an assigned slumbercoach was out of service for some reason.

The NYC slumbercoaches were rebuilt from Budd-manufactured 22-roomette sleepers.

Amtrak put a slumbercoach on the Broadway when Amtrak started up and this lasted I think until the train was discontinued.

[Deggesty]

I see the PRR sleeper on the CZ! But, I could not read the name of the car.

The 12 duplex single room 5 bedroom College Creek (PS 1949) is much easier to see. I did not make a note of its name, but the only car of this configuration I ever saw came into Bristol, Va., one morning in the mid-fifties instead of the regular 10-6 that was operated on the Pelican between New York and Bristol. As I recall, I stepped on board to look at the arrangement of the duplex rooms. 

[ZephyrOverland]

daveklepper

  On occasion, a number of railroads substituted some lightweight sleeper, 22-romette car, 6-and10, whatever, when an assigned slumbercoach was out of service for some reason.

Amtrak put a slumbercoach on the Broadway when Amtrak started up and this lasted I think until the train was discontinued.

 

That is true, since there were so few Slumbercoaches, a regular sleeper would most likely be assigned to a Slumbercoach run if the latter was unavailable.  This happened to me twice on Amtrak - I was given a Roomette in a 10-6 because the regular Slumbercoach was unavailable.  But, the City of Denver situation was an example of the UP trying to steal some marketing thunder from the Burlington by offering a similar service using existing equipment.  As I recall, UP's Slumbercoach offering did not last long. 

Another example of this was in the late 1960's, the Seaboard Coast Line was using 16 Duplex Roomette-4 Double Bedroom sleepers as "Budget Room Coaches" on the Silver Meteor and Champion.

I utilized the Slumbercoach service on Amtrak's Broadway Limited a number of times.  The last time was a Chicago-New York round trip a week before the Broadway was discontinued.  I had the same center room in "Monroe Harbor" both ways which was, ironically, one of the NYC rebuilds. 

[passengerfan]

ZephyrOverland

daveklepper

  On occasion, a number of railroads substituted some lightweight sleeper, 22-romette car, 6-and10, whatever, when an assigned slumbercoach was out of service for some reason.

Amtrak put a slumbercoach on the Broadway when Amtrak started up and this lasted I think until the train was discontinued.

 

That is true, since there were so few Slumbercoaches, a regular sleeper would most likely be assigned to a Slumbercoach run if the latter was unavailable.  This happened to me twice on Amtrak - I was given a Roomette in a 10-6 because the regular Slumbercoach was unavailable.  But, the City of Denver situation was an example of the UP trying to steal some marketing thunder from the Burlington by offering a similar service using existing equipment.  As I recall, UP's Slumbercoach offering did not last long. 

Another example of this was in the late 1960's, the Seaboard Coast Line was using 16 Duplex Roomette-4 Double Bedroom sleepers as "Budget Room Coaches" on the Silver Meteor and Champion.

I utilized the Slumbercoach service on Amtrak's Broadway Limited a number of times.  The last time was a Chicago-New York round trip a week before the Broadway was discontinued.  I had the same center room in "Monroe Harbor" both ways which was, ironically, one of the NYC rebuilds. 

You did a great job on my question about slumbercoaches. But there was one other train that operated with a 16-Duplex roomette 4 double bedroom and sold the space at slumbercoach rates to compete with the Mainstreeter and that was the Western Star. I also believe the SCL leased similar 16-4 sleepers from the B&O Bird series for Florida service in the winter months and operated them at slumbercoach rates.

Al - in - Stockton

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

ZephyrOverland

daveklepper

  On occasion, a number of railroads substituted some lightweight sleeper, 22-romette car, 6-and10, whatever, when an assigned slumbercoach was out of service for some reason.

Amtrak put a slumbercoach on the Broadway when Amtrak started up and this lasted I think until the train was discontinued.

 

That is true, since there were so few Slumbercoaches, a regular sleeper would most likely be assigned to a Slumbercoach run if the latter was unavailable.  This happened to me twice on Amtrak - I was given a Roomette in a 10-6 because the regular Slumbercoach was unavailable.  But, the City of Denver situation was an example of the UP trying to steal some marketing thunder from the Burlington by offering a similar service using existing equipment.  As I recall, UP's Slumbercoach offering did not last long. 

Another example of this was in the late 1960's, the Seaboard Coast Line was using 16 Duplex Roomette-4 Double Bedroom sleepers as "Budget Room Coaches" on the Silver Meteor and Champion.

I utilized the Slumbercoach service on Amtrak's Broadway Limited a number of times.  The last time was a Chicago-New York round trip a week before the Broadway was discontinued.  I had the same center room in "Monroe Harbor" both ways which was, ironically, one of the NYC rebuilds. 

You did a great job on my question about slumbercoaches. But there was one other train that operated with a 16-Duplex roomette 4 double bedroom and sold the space at slumbercoach rates to compete with the Mainstreeter and that was the Western Star. I also believe the SCL leased similar 16-4 sleepers from the B&O Bird series for Florida service in the winter months and operated them at slumbercoach rates.

Al - in - Stockton

Yes, the SCL(just think of Champion Davis spinning in his grave; if only the energy released could have been harnessed!) used these sleepers in NY-Florida service--and Amtrak continued operating them for a while. I rode in one of them from Jacksonville to Washington in July 1971 as I was on my way to taking Amtrak's version of the National Limted from Washington to Jefferson City. I had spent the previous night riding coach from Birmingham on the South Wind, and the berth was wonderful. I had thought about riding in one in March of '68 from Florence to Baltimore, but I rode coach instead.

[ZephyrOverland]

 There was one other example of a line that was using a regular sleeper for a Slumbercoach type service:

The L&N operated a "Budget Sleeper" between Cincinnati and Memphis on the Humming Bird using a 6 section-6 roomette-4 double bedroom car.

I entered this earlier but for some reason the system didn't process my post.