EuclidThey draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit.
Reported numbers in low populated areas here seemed comfortingly small too. But I question if that might be more a result that tests were not widely available here until just recently. Now we are seeing expotential increases almost daily.
It's kinda hard to report meaningful numbers when the official line is trying to discourage blanket testing.
There has not been enough testing to know what we don't know.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD There has not been enough testing to know what we don't know.
True, but sometimes you just can't know it all. Or even know as much as you'd like.
Euclid Convicted One I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking. People in Michigan feel that it is unnecessary to lock down the entire state just because Detroit has exploded with the virus. They draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit. So they want the Governor to keep Detroit locked down if she feels it is necessary, but let the rest of the State get back to making a living. I have a feeling that the Governor would never consider such a proposal. I believe she would think it unfair to Detroit.
Convicted One I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking.
People in Michigan feel that it is unnecessary to lock down the entire state just because Detroit has exploded with the virus. They draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit. So they want the Governor to keep Detroit locked down if she feels it is necessary, but let the rest of the State get back to making a living. I have a feeling that the Governor would never consider such a proposal. I believe she would think it unfair to Detroit.
Meanwhile Trump has resumed the tactic of distraction from his failure in managing the crisis by attacking the WHO and China, even lying once again about who pays the tariffs. Hint: It's not China.
And why did you say "the people of Michigan" when it was only a small group of Trumpists?
Flintlock76 BaltACD There has not been enough testing to know what we don't know. True, but sometimes you just can't know it all. Or even know as much as you'd like.
To date roughly 3.2M have been tested with a population in the country of roughly 330M.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
When you are dealing with a condition that can be transmitted by symptomless individuals more testing is needed.
charlie hebdo Euclid Convicted One I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking. People in Michigan feel that it is unnecessary to lock down the entire state just because Detroit has exploded with the virus. They draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit. So they want the Governor to keep Detroit locked down if she feels it is necessary, but let the rest of the State get back to making a living. I have a feeling that the Governor would never consider such a proposal. I believe she would think it unfair to Detroit. Meanwhile Trump has resumed the tactic of distraction from his failure in managing the crisis by attacking the WHO and China, even lying once again about who pays the tariffs. Hint: It's not China. And why did you say "the people of Michigan" when it was only a small group of Trumpists?
To your last point, I said: "People in Michigan," not "The people of Michigan." I have no idea how many people or who they support for President.
Euclid BaltACD There has not been enough testing to know what we don't know. What is it that we have to know before we restart the economy?
What is it that we have to know before we restart the economy?
Who has the virus, who is passing the virus and who is 'immune' to the virus - if science doesn't come up with a vaccine to prevent the fatal effects of contracting the virus.
In the absense of 'herd immunity' the effects of the virus on the population at large will overwhelm the healthcare system wherever the virus strikes. To date we have no scientifically proven treatment for the virus.
I post data from Israel because it includes numbers on the recovered, is reliable, and includes breakthroughs on steps to cures and actual relief from symptoms. And the conflicts between health specialists and economy-defense people parallel those in the USA.
Would I be interested in similar data from Findland or Saskatchawan? You bet!
daveklepperI post data from Israel because it includes numbers on the recovered, is reliable, and includes breakthroughs on steps to cures and actual relief from symptoms
I appreciate the way you give us updates on the way Israel is combating this disease.
It's just your penchant for bulk overloading these threads by pasting entire articles that gets tredious. Especially the way some of those pastings are laced with unneccessary zingers against Israel's ideological adversaries.
Convicted One I am aware that there is a broad opportunity to dismiss the numbers if one is so inclined..."small sample size" "no access to raw data" etc etc yada yada,
Hasn't gotten anywhere near that level yet.
We're still down at the 'garbage in, garbage out' level of the newsworker understanding where the numbers come from, and what they mean.
COVID-19 deaths, in Italy and now increasingly here, are being counted in ways that artificially inflate, sometimes substantially, the actual 'deaths' caused directly by SARS-CoV-2, now, apparently, often without actually testing to see if the virus was or is present (!) It is certainly possible that Indiana's incidence of H1N1 may not be representative of other areas reporting higher death totals; in fact, I have no backup statistical analysis to show that the reported H1N1 death incidence nationwide (which was running at a high multiple of legitimate COVID-19-caused deaths) is accurate.
Perhaps interestingly, the official Indiana statistics indicate only 49 deaths in the period from March 28 and April 14, which is not at all what the television station's cleverly-smoothed curve indicates. I also note, although this appears to be unremarked officially, that the case rate increase is slowing down, which may indicate that the various heroic social-distancing mechanisms are working.
Overmod... Perhaps interestingly, the official Indiana statistics indicate only 49 deaths in the period from March 28 and April 14, which is not at all what the television station's cleverly-smoothed curve indicates. I also note, although this appears to be unremarked officially, that the case rate increase is slowing down, which may indicate that the various heroic social-distancing mechanisms are working.
Bad counting works both ways - inflating and deflating the real numbers. The source of the 'raw' numbers have to be evaluated with the message they are trying to prove with the numbers they are posting.
BaltACD Euclid BaltACD There has not been enough testing to know what we don't know. What is it that we have to know before we restart the economy? Who has the virus, who is passing the virus and who is 'immune' to the virus - if science doesn't come up with a vaccine to prevent the fatal effects of contracting the virus. In the absense of 'herd immunity' the effects of the virus on the population at large will overwhelm the healthcare system wherever the virus strikes. To date we have no scientifically proven treatment for the virus.
I understand and agree that that is needed. Ideally all of that would be necessary before lifting the lockdowns. HOWEVER: Achieving this goal of entirely weeding out the virus from our population will take a lot of time. Do we just keep the economy shut down and pay people to stay home indefinitely for months or years? If that is not an option, what do you do?
The IMF is already predicting the biggest downturn since the Great Depression, and that happens if we return to work now. It is understandable to put lives before jobs, but ultimately, the two are linked with lives being dependent on jobs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/us/politics/coronavirus-economy-recession-depression.html
i do not put zingers in my reports. I discuss activities of adversaries when responding to accusations, but since I've given all the necessary answers already and it is clear that at least one accusor won't read my factual answers anyway, accusations are now answered by just a few words and my email address for any further discussion.
And fairness requires you to note my posting any positive information concerning advisaries' approaches to the Cononavirus problem that I find. Example: Abbas' approval of the low-cost ventilator developed at El Kuds University.
There is a detailed discussion of San Francisco Muni's approach to Cononavirus available at:
https://www.sfmta.com/blog/muni-prepares-deliver-essential-trips-only
I am not competent to do a summary, or to edit for brevity, and it is far longer than any of my posts. The comments and discussion that follow are also important in my opinion. No rail service is being provided; only buses are running, with a very skelitan system, that discussion indicates some feel is inadequate.
You may wish to approach the MUNI blog through the website of the Market Street Railway Association (I'm a member) at www.streetcar.org
Euclid charlie hebdo Euclid Convicted One I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking. People in Michigan feel that it is unnecessary to lock down the entire state just because Detroit has exploded with the virus. They draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit. So they want the Governor to keep Detroit locked down if she feels it is necessary, but let the rest of the State get back to making a living. I have a feeling that the Governor would never consider such a proposal. I believe she would think it unfair to Detroit. Meanwhile Trump has resumed the tactic of distraction from his failure in managing the crisis by attacking the WHO and China, even lying once again about who pays the tariffs. Hint: It's not China. And why did you say "the people of Michigan" when it was only a small group of Trumpists? I have heard him recently say that China pays the tariffs, and I am amazed that he and Navarro apparently believe that. To your last point, I said: "People in Michigan," not "The people of Michigan." I have no idea how many people or who they support for President.
I have heard him recently say that China pays the tariffs, and I am amazed that he and Navarro apparently believe that.
People or the people implies a large portion of the population of Michiganders. Better to say "some people" or a "group of people." As to being Trumpists, look at some signs and hats in some of the photos. Some swastikas were also seen.
Trump is not especially well-educated or read. However, he is using this untrue statement repeatedly as a tactic to divert attention and mobilize his clueless base against an external "enemy." I doubt if he or Peter actually think tariffs are paid by the foreign source when we know they are paid by the importer here who passes them on the end users - us. It's an old tactic, to use a perceived foreign enemy as a target, often used historically by incompetent leaders. It's being done by China currently in their domestic agitprop.
David K: Thanks for the briefer post. Remote vital signs monitoring is good, but not a substitute for diagnostic tests for viral load and antibodies. Much of the radar tests can be done right now with Fitbit-type devices hooked up to a monitor through Bluetooth.
Thanks, Charlie, for that comment:
On another matter, when I'm told about projects that will produce results
"one or two years," I ignore them.
But some good news supplied by Reuters News Service and rewritten for brevity:
charlie hebdo Euclid charlie hebdo Euclid Convicted One I can't imagine what these people who are trying to rush the reopening of te country can even be thinking. People in Michigan feel that it is unnecessary to lock down the entire state just because Detroit has exploded with the virus. They draw that conclusion because after watching the virus tear through Detroit, they see that the spread seems to be stalling out when it gets into areas of lower population density everywhere outside of Detroit. So they want the Governor to keep Detroit locked down if she feels it is necessary, but let the rest of the State get back to making a living. I have a feeling that the Governor would never consider such a proposal. I believe she would think it unfair to Detroit. Meanwhile Trump has resumed the tactic of distraction from his failure in managing the crisis by attacking the WHO and China, even lying once again about who pays the tariffs. Hint: It's not China. And why did you say "the people of Michigan" when it was only a small group of Trumpists? I have heard him recently say that China pays the tariffs, and I am amazed that he and Navarro apparently believe that. To your last point, I said: "People in Michigan," not "The people of Michigan." I have no idea how many people or who they support for President. People or the people implies a large portion of the population of Michiganders. Better to say "some people" or a "group of people." As to being Trumpists, look at some signs and hats in some of the photos. Some swastikas were also seen. Trump is not especially well-educated or read. However, he is using this untrue statement repeatedly as a tactic to divert attention and mobilize his clueless base against an external "enemy." I doubt if he or Peter actually think tariffs are paid by the foreign source when we know they are paid by the importer here who passes them on the end users - us. It's an old tactic, to use a perceived foreign enemy as a target, often used historically by incompetent leaders. It's being done by China currently in their domestic agitprop.
I have no idea how many people in Michigan oppose the lockdowns. Do you know the number? Do you know that the ones filmed protesting are the only ones opposing the lockdowns? All I know is that there is some opposition in Michigan to the Goverernor's lockdown. They tend to feel she is overreaching. The dispute is widely discussed on the radio with news and interviews over the last several days. The oppostion states that it is not necessary to apply the lockdown universally across the State when the degree of spread varies so widely.
There is also a perceived uneveness in how Governor Whitmer is applying the lockdown rules, and it suggests a political agenda on her part being carried out under the guise of the lockdown.
Euclid: You or I could see if there are any polls on Whitmer. Also look at the data on Covid-19 in MI. Here's an example of the GOP view of the situation, at least that of a House Hoosier.
Look at it this way.
If what Governor Whitmer did was right, and it all comes out fine in the end, she'll be a heroine and all the rough spots will be forgotten.
But if she was wrong and events prove she over-reacted and made a bad situation worse then she'll pay the penalty at the polls, either in a general election or by a primary challenge from members of her own party.
I don't know enough about what's going on in Michigan to even begin to comment on the situation, but I would remind all that COVID-19 is a truly unique situation, and it's no-ones fault, playing the blame game is counter-productive and a waste of everyone's time, even though it's human nature to look for a scapegoat when disaster strikes.
Some political leaders can rise to challenges better than others, but they all try their best. Some are leaders, some are just administrators, some ride a rising tide into office and don't have a problem until a true crisis hits and finds them wanting. Some never have to face a crisis and some get more than their share. Life's unfair.
Fix the problem, not the blame. Nothing else works. I learned that in the military and had the lesson reenforced in the private sector.
PS: If the last I've read is true there were 15,000 people involved in the Michigan protest. That's a lot of people.
PPS: Additional food for thought. 30,000 people here in the US are reported to have died from coronavirus. Tragic indeed, and I can't and won't minimise it.
But on the other hand, last week 5.2 million applied for unemployment, making a total of 22 million for the country so far. What do we say to the unemployed? It's the new normal? Get used to it?
There's no easy answers here, only reasoned compromises and solutions.
I would hope you learned in the military as well as business that in order to fix a problem, it is essential to find out what went wrong and who screwed up.
As to Michigan, it's part of yet another right wing maneuver that may defy our constitution. Tea Party 2.0
More like 3000-4000, with 150 at the capital lawn, according to many reputable news sources.
Clearly reliable, extensive testing is needed to open up the USA safely before a vaccine comes.
You find out who screwed up after the problem's fixed. If corrective measures are called for then you apply them. Fixing the problem takes priority.
I got the 15,000 figure on-line yesterday from multiple news sources, not any one source. If they were all wrong I would have had no way of knowing.
"Esquire" wasn't one of them. Neither was "Fox News."
Last I heard of "Esquire" they were a slightly risque' magazine for the "man-about-town." I never figured them for a news source.
And charlie, we have to remember one thing. If I recall right in one of your other posts you said you were retired? So am I. And if you're like me you made sure your financial needs were going to be taken care of before you pulled the plug.
So whatever happens, both you and I are fine. But I'm terribly concerned about those 22 million people out there who aren't fine, and who can't be left hanging forever.
OvermodCOVID-19 deaths, in Italy and now increasingly here, are being counted in ways that artificially inflate, sometimes substantially, the actual 'deaths' caused directly by SARS-CoV-2, now, apparently, often without actually testing to see if the virus was or is present
Yeah, I've considered that aspect as well. Just this week there was an obit in the local paper announcing the passing of my 9th grade english teacher., He was 93. Listed as losing his battle with covid 19. Hard to imagine they proved covid 19 as solely the cause.
I have noticed that aged language arts instructors tend to have obituaries that read like a charm. Probably a little more than just random chance behind that.
But at the same time, in normal years dealing with normal influenza, I don't recall governors, mayors, and hospital administrators crying "Mayday!!" either. Granted, that is not scientific proof sufficient to silence the most virulent naysayer's skepticism, but it does lend some credibility to the notion that these are "special" times. And I do believe the death count of the current event would be even higher without the isolation measures in place.
76: I Googled and got several, some paywalled so I posted ABC. The Esquire link was not about exaggerating crowdsize, though that has been a Trump tactic from the beginning.
Maybe in your Marines the cause of the problem isn't needed, but in science and other real life applications such as successful businesses, the NTSB, and other military branches it is. You can't solve a problem unless you determine cause, which includes source. Ever hear of human error?
OK, one last time. It goes like this:
"We've got a problem!"
"What is it?"
"It's THIS!"
"OK, how do we fix it?"
"Like THIS!"
"Good! Do it!"
"Oh boy! It's fixed! We can relax now!"
Then, and ONLY then:
"Right, how did this happen, and how do we keep it from happening again?"
And that's how we did it in the Corps, and at Copy Van / Copy Systems, and the sucessor companies. Worked for us.
That's the last I'll say about it.
Ask and you shall receive :
Covid in Saskatchewan
https://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/health-care-administration-and-provider-resources/treatment-procedures-and-guidelines/emerging-public-health-issues/2019-novel-coronavirus/cases-and-risk-of-covid-19-in-saskatchewan
https://www.google.ca/search?q=covid+19+saskatchewan&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-ca&client=safari
Covid in Canada
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection.html?&utm_campaign=gc-hc-sc-coronaviruspublicedu2021-2021-0001-9762248618&utm_medium=search&utm_source=google-ads-99837326356&utm_content=text-en-428935858540&utm_term=%2Bcovid
Covid Research in Saskatchewan
https://news.usask.ca/articles/colleges/2020/agbio-cwrc-commits-over-9.6-million-to-usask-crop-development-centre-for-wheat-research.php
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-covid-19-vido-intervac-saskatchewan-vaccine-1.5508114
https://globalnews.ca/video/6720831/coronavirus-outbreak-covid-19-vaccine-research-continues-at-university-of-saskatchewan
Quadrotriticale ( because why not )
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Quadrotriticale
https://www.stonebrewing.com/beer/stone-stochasticity-project/stone-stochasticity-project-quadrotriticale#ageGatePassed
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Quadrotriticale
Finland!!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102255/cumulative-coronavirus-cases-in-finland/
Finland the real deal.
https://thl.fi/fi/web/infektiotaudit-ja-rokotukset/ajankohtaista/ajankohtaista-koronaviruksesta-covid-19
charlie hebdoAs to Michigan, it's part of yet another right wing maneuver that may defy our constitution.
I'm not sure what you meant by "defy our constitution".
York1 John
Glad you brought up Finland Miningman, they had some fine steam locomotives up there!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Finnish_locomotives#Steam_locomotives
I'm sick of talking about coronavirus. I (we) need a break.
76: Right.
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