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An Over-reaction? Locked

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:26 PM

Flintlock76

And charlie, we have to remember one thing.  If I recall right in one of your other posts you said you were retired?  So am I.  And if you're like me you made sure your financial needs were going to be taken care of before you pulled the plug. 

So whatever happens, both you and I are fine.  But I'm terribly concerned about those 22 million people out there who aren't  fine, and who can't be left hanging forever.  

If the economy collapses, nobody is going to be fine.  It won’t matter how financially prepared you are.  We are not talking about an economic slowdown.

With an economic collapse comes a collapse of government and a collapse of law and order.  As this develops, all private property will be nationalized and seized to run the collapsing government for as long as possible. But that will be the last gasp of order.  Next it will be anarchy like a civil war being fought over food, shelter, and personal survival. 

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:02 PM

Dystopian vision, a society bereft of reason. The dream becomes a dystopian nightmare. 

Everyone in the hills with canned beans and shotguns.

We shouldn't have scrapped steam.. what goes around comes around. 

 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:19 PM

Euclid, what you've described is more like the aftermath of a nuclear war, and yes, if one of those things happened the results would be exactly as you describe.

Or it could happen if that super-volcano under Yellowstone National Park blows up.

Things aren't good, but they're not that  bad.  We as a society are a lot stronger than that.  We'll get through this.  

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:25 PM

Errr....China conducted nuclear weapons test yesterday!  Tactical stuff apparently. 

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:29 PM
Cover image expansion
Excerpt from Science, April 17
The number to watch in the next phase may no longer be the actual number of cases per day, but what epidemiologists call the effective reproduction number, or R, which denotes how many people the average infected person infects in turn. If R is above 1, the outbreak grows; below 1 it shrinks. The goal of the current lockdowns is to push R well below 1. Once the pandemic is tamed, countries can try to loosen restrictions while keeping R hovering around 1, when each infected person on average infects one other person, keeping the number of new cases steady.
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:37 PM

Miningman

Errr....China conducted nuclear weapons test yesterday!  Tactical stuff apparently. 

 

Eh, they've got 'em, they test 'em from time to time.  So do we.

As a matter of fact when my brother was flying helicopters for the Air Force he used to do overflights of the Nevada nuclear test ranges.  This was back in the 80's when all the tests were underground.

He said that was something to see, with the shock waves traveling all over the surface!  He's never seen any film of an underground test that did it any justice, you have to see it to believe it.

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, April 16, 2020 4:20 PM

Flintlock76

Euclid, what you've described is more like the aftermath of a nuclear war, and yes, if one of those things happened the results would be exactly as you describe.

Or it could happen if that super-volcano under Yellowstone National Park blows up.

Things aren't good, but they're not that  bad.  We as a society are a lot stronger than that.  We'll get through this.  

 

We are not strong at all if everybody stays home and gets paid by the government for doing nothing for months on end.  We either open it up or it stays closed, and there will never come a time when the all clear will be given.  I don't know how much it will take to collapse the economy, but when that happens, it happes like a collapse and there is little warning.  The collapse just begins and then goes viral.  Nobody advocating keeping the lockdowns in place will give any opinion as to how long we can remain shut down.  None at all.  How much of a chance do we want to take?  Nobody answers. 

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, April 16, 2020 4:25 PM

Overmod
Perhaps interestingly, the official Indiana statistics indicate only 49 deaths in the period from March 28 and April 14, which is not at all what the television station's cleverly-smoothed curve indicates.

If I follow you correctly that 49 number is for deaths that have occured during that time frame that have only been reported during the past 24 hours (as explained in the heading immediately above it) which I admit seems like an odd way to report it. 

If you look elsewhere on that same page, the state reported only 57 covid 19 deaths total as of 3/28....with well over 450 now. Perhaps their odd way of presenting the data was  confusing?

Here is a screenshot from the site you linked to, explaining what I am saying

 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, April 16, 2020 9:25 PM

Flintlock76

You find out who  screwed up after  the problem's fixed.  If corrective measures are called for then  you apply them.  Fixing the problem takes priority.

I got the 15,000 figure on-line yesterday from multiple news sources, not any one source.  If they were all wrong I would have had no way of knowing.  

"Esquire" wasn't one of them.  Neither was "Fox News."

Last I heard of "Esquire" they were a slightly risque' magazine for the "man-about-town."  I never figured them for a news source.  

And charlie, we have to remember one thing.  If I recall right in one of your other posts you said you were retired?  So am I.  And if you're like me you made sure your financial needs were going to be taken care of before you pulled the plug. 

So whatever happens, both you and I are fine.  But I'm terribly concerned about those 22 million people out there who aren't  fine, and who can't be left hanging forever.  

 

"Pulling the plug" seems like an expression terribly misplaced given the context of these times.  I am retired as a professor but still maintain a part-time clinical practice (neuropsychological evaluations and diagnostic workups. 

What's the reference of 22 million? 

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, April 16, 2020 11:36 PM

22 Million Americans have lost their jobs in the past 4 weeks. Widely reported across all media. 

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, April 16, 2020 11:59 PM

David K. -- What no comment on my Covid in Sask. , Covid in Canada, Covid reasearch at Univ of Saskatoon and Univ of Regina. Covid in Finland!!! Even one in Finnish. Even Quadrotriticale stuff for fun! 

Apr. 16, ( today) at 1:18 

please note with a keen eye.... all links ! 

AND... don't overlook my post on Classic on the 'Fateful Trip, Passengers of Destiny' thread, today Apr 16 @ 8:25 pm . It's found/ posted just for you. ..

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 17, 2020 1:32 AM

Different time zone!

Condensed from Reuters and Jerusalem Post. 17 April
Basel-Swiss drug-maker Roche aims by early-May to provide blood tests to identify those recovered who have antibodies possibly providing immunity and thus able to resume work and/or contact with the public, the test available to countries that accept European CE regulatory standards. It is also seeking U.S. Food and Drug Administration emergency authorization for its use in the United States. By June production should expand to "high double-digit millions" per month, said Thomas Schinecker, Roche's diagnostics head.
 
Others planning to provide such tests include which U.S.-based Abbott Laboratories and Becton Dickinson, and Co, Italy's DiaSorin and others.
 
Thomas Schinecker, Roche's diagnostics head said: Thomas Schinecker, Roche's diagnostics head said:  "This is the working assumption: If you test and find people that have developed these antibodies, then at least for a certain period of time they will have gained immunity. We worked day and night on this, over weekends, to make sure we can help as many patients as possible. We put our best scientists on this. What we see is that the way we've designed the assay, it's extremely specific."  Roche's test will run on more than 40,000 of its cobas e testing machines installed worldwide that are  routinely used for Roche’s existing nose-swab PCR tests  The new test identifies immunoglobulin M (IgM) and immunoglobulin G (IgG) antibodies. IgG antibodies remain longer in the body, suggesting possible immunity.
 
Finland, Germany, Britain and other countries have antibody testing plans. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention plans to use them to study community-wide transmission.
"What you can't say, and that's this idea that's going around, is that if I have the antibodies, then I know if I'm immune or not," said Patrick Mathys, the Swiss health ministry's crisis management head. That will take more research.
The URL is:  https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Coronavirus-Swiss-drugmaker-to-join-race for-antibody-tests-624941
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Posted by Miningman on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:02 AM

Baloney! You were posting all morning on this very thread. 

The Classic Posting was at the same identical time you were posting on the Quiz. 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:03 AM

Miningman, one URL led to an entirely different subject, one gave me the page not available, one led me to admit I don't know Finnish, the Finnish one in English did not mention the recovered number. and all the Canadian/Saskatchawan material that I could read was more than three weeks old.  Can you do better?

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:07 AM

And you did your posting of URLs while I was asleep, honestly.  So in checking what was written while I was asleep I missed your post.  Please, any news from Saskatchawan since 25 March?

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 17, 2020 5:01 AM

I just got the Associated Press morning transmission on my Yahoo mail box.  I've scanned it and will now return to read in detail.  I recommend it highly.

You can sign up at:

The Associated Press <morningwire@apnews.com

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 17, 2020 7:12 AM

And here is something involving wheel transportatation from that web that hopefullly is short enough to avoid complaints:

OVATO, Italy (AP) — There are no fans lining the road. No teammates providing support. And there is no race to win.

Professional cyclist Davide Martinelli has achieved a moral victory, though, by using his bike to help deliver medicine to elderly residents and others in need during the coronavirus pandemic.

The service is of great use in Lodetto, Martinelli’s hometown in the hard-hit Lombardy region of northern Italy. The village has neither a pharmacy nor a supermarket.

Martinelli makes a daily trip to Rovato, the next town over, to pick up supplies.

“I’ve got a bike and two legs in pretty good form, so riding 10 kilometers (6 miles) a day is no big deal,” Martinelli said in an interview this week. “I wanted to help the people who always support me during the season. It’s time to give back to them.”

Martinelli joined up with a Facebook group called “Lodetto Solidale” (Supporting Lodetto) where those in need can place their requests online, by phone or message.

Martinelli receives his orders each night and maps out a route for the following day.

“I go to the pharmacy and when I arrive outside I put on gloves and a mask,” he said. “If I go for three or four people, there’s less risk of contagion.”

With a population of 1,500, everyone in Lodetto knows who Martinelli is. Or rather, they know who Martinelli’s father is.

That’s because Giuseppe Martinelli is one of the most successful team directors in cycling, having guided the likes of Marco Pantani and Vincenzo Nibali to Tour de France victories and a handful of riders to Giro d’Italia wins.

The elder Martinelli said that what his son is doing now is “a step above a victory for one of my athletes, because it’s gratifying to him and to us because he’s part of our family.”

Davide Martinelli is also part of Giuseppe Martinelli’s Astana team — the squad that Lance Armstrong rode for in 2009 when he came out of retirement.

Still, Giuseppe Martinelli said he had nothing to do with his son’s initiative besides offering fatherly advice: “I just said, ‘Be careful. Be safe. Don’t touch anyone. Use a mask and gloves when you enter the pharmacy.’”

At 26, Davide Martinelli likely still has his best racing years ahead of him. So far in his career, he has won only two stages in minor races — both in 2016. This initiative has brought him more recognition than anything else he’s done on his bike.

While professional athletes were at first allowed out to train during the nationwide lockdown in Italy, the government ordered them to remain home, too, after the Tokyo Olympics were postponed to 2021.

“But don’t think for an instant that there’s some sort of training strategy behind all of this,” Giuseppe Martinelli said of his son’s initiative. “Eight out of 10 times he goes out with normal running shoes and his mountain bike. ... So we’re talking about 30-40 minutes twice a day and sometimes only once per day.”

That’s hardly even a warmup for pro cyclists, who often ride more than five hours per day.

“I won’t deny that having the chance to be out in the fresh air helps me relax,” Davide Martinelli said. “Sure, there’s a risk of contagion when I enter the pharmacy, but you can’t dwell on that. When you decide to do something you’ve got to do it without over-thinking it.”

___

Dampf reported from Rome. Brian Hendrie in Rovato also contributed to this story.

___

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Posted by Convicted One on Friday, April 17, 2020 9:58 AM

Miningman
22 Million Americans have lost their jobs in the past 4 weeks. Widely reported across all media. 

That extra $600/week they will be getting in unemployment benefits  ought to give them some comfort?

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Posted by 54light15 on Friday, April 17, 2020 10:00 AM

Firelock- Those are some fine locomotives in Finland- I sure like that Ukko-Pekka Pacific. I wonder what Ukko-Pekka means? 

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Posted by York1 on Friday, April 17, 2020 10:06 AM

54light15
I wonder what Ukko-Pekka means? 

 

I used Google translate.  The Finnish "Ukko-Pekka" translates into English as "Ukko-Pekka".

Hope that helps!

York1 John       

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 17, 2020 10:39 AM

York1
I used Google translate.  The Finnish "Ukko-Pekka" translates into English as "Ukko-Pekka". Hope that helps!

That's what happens when you use Google Mistranslate instead of, say, Wikipedia.

Ukko-Pekka is a nickname referring to a Finnish politician named Pehr Evind Svinhufvud; it means something like 'honorable grandpa' (and was the closest Pehr would come to Finnicizing his name).  Since he was President of Finland from 1931 to 1937 there is little surprise how the sobriquet was appended to locomotives.

(Of course it may not be surprising he chose not to Finnicize his name, which would translate to something like 'pigheaded'.  But still it's better than if his name had been Skjuthuvud, right?

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Posted by Convicted One on Friday, April 17, 2020 11:46 AM

This just in, The current total influenza related deathcount in Indiana for the 2019-2020 flu season is 121 people per the report just issued today

When  earlier viewing the graph produced by the Indianapolis TV station, I was curious why the cut-off date for statistics used in their average  only went as far back as 2016.

A footnote  under the "Influenza-Associated Mortality" chart  from the above linked report explains that the reporting criteria was changed in December 2015

Appears that the criteria for including common flu related deaths in the official count was more restrictive prior to 2016, than in the years since...so earlier  numbers would be commensurately reduced. Pulling down the average

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, April 17, 2020 1:04 PM

Miningman, one URL led to an entirely different subject, one gave me the page not available, one led me to admit I don't know Finnish, the Finnish one in English did not mention the recovered number. and all the Canadian/Saskatchawan material that I could read was more than three weeks old.  Can you do better?

 

David K.  --   You sir are entirely delusional. 

Every link opens just fine. Just checked. 

The Covid reports are Apr 16 and Apr 17 ,from Saskatchewan and Canada, and autonatically updated.

The research reports are Mar 25, 26 .. news articles 

Blow it out your ear. 

 

 

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:43 PM

Deleted

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:50 PM

See if some of the 'recovered' statistics (for Finland and other Scandinavian countries) as you want to see them are in here:

https://www.statista.com/study/71530/coronavirus-covid-19-in-the-nordics/

Said to be updated through April 15th.  Suspect it will be periodically reviewed and updated, perhaps weekly.

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Posted by Convicted One on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:53 PM

Miningman
Miningman, one URL led to an entirely different subject, one gave me the page not available, one led me to admit I don't know Finnish, the Finnish one in English did not mention the recovered number. and all the Canadian/Saskatchawan material that I could read was more than three weeks old.  Can you do better?   David K.  --   You sir are entirely delusional.  Every link opens just fine. Just checked. 

Miningman, every link you provided opened just fine for me, but in David's defense he has mentioned on past ocassion that he is "bandwidth constrained" at his current location.

Not sure if he is the victim of a slow connection, or  some form of state sponsored censorship...wouldn't surprise me if the latter was the case, but in any event his claims of an aborted load might be quite truthful.

I've experienced failure to load before myself when trying to connect through overloaded wifi networks, I think such prublems are magnified when a particular link takes you through multiple "hops" to the target.

I appreciated your thoughtfulness in providing links to your source materials, rather than bulk pasting in entirety here as some others do.

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, April 17, 2020 4:51 PM

Convicted One -- Thanks.

Got my dander up when Dave told me to "do better". 

He's the one who could do better to send links. Said he would, then proved he is not a man of his word. 

I don't care but there is nothing old or wrong about my links. The Quadrotriticale ones are older, they are in jest, to lighten the mood.

So here's the deal. I will not going forward respond to any of Dave's comments or post anything on any of his Threads , in exchange I expect the same.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, April 17, 2020 4:51 PM

How about some good news for a change?

HOW cool is this?  And let me tell you, if all the Brits in the CBI Theater were as tough as this old gent the Japanese never had a chance!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/good-news/99-year-old-british-wwii-vet-raises-dollar22-million-for-health-workers/ar-BB12Mm5e?ocid=spartandhp  

One more thing.  Who put the tribbles in the quadrotriticale?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Fnmnktcgk  

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Posted by Convicted One on Friday, April 17, 2020 5:39 PM

Miningman
So here's the deal. I will not going forward respond to any of Dave's comments or post anything on any of his Threads , in exchange I expect the same.

As long as I am still welcome in your threads, then I have no problem with that.  Star

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, April 17, 2020 6:51 PM

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map

You can select data county by county.  In addition to Covid-19 stats there are also stats on total population, racial make-up, hospital stats concerning beds and ICU beds.  Enlightning.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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