British Railway Operations

[Anonymous]

murphy. No not My brother. I think you are referring to Simon R.

[Hugh Jampton]

http://www.central-railway.co.uk/route.htm seems to work better.

[John Bakeer]

Sorry to seem pedantic, but it is 'CENTRAL RAILWAY' a detailed route plan(s) is/are on <cental-railway.co.uk/maps/map>giving details of the proposed route along with copious notes about the works involved.
It's just a matter of getting parliament to give the act floor time and of course geting it past the NIMBY's. They are all ready at it around Dukinfield, Ashburys, Droylsden etc.
Some of us are more a lert than others.
John B.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

QUOTE: Originally posted by martin.knoepfel

Is the Great Central the railroad that has been built to Continental clearances. This would be interesting for through freight without specialised (smaller and lower) cars.

Yes, it will be built (if and when it ever gets the go ahead) to the Continental loading gauge, but a lot of it will use previously abandoned RoW if I'm not too mistaken.

As I understand it, the GRAND CENTRAL line (not to be confused with Open Access operator Grand Central which has just been given the go ahed by the Rail Regulator to start a passenger service from Sunderland to London King's Cross) will use much of the track bed of the former GREAT CENTRAL from London to Sheffield. This was built in 1899 to continental loading gauge but closed in 1966. From Sheffield to Manchester it would use the Woodhead line (closed 1982, the original part of the Great Central line or Manchester, Sheffield & Lincolnshire as it called itself before it opened its London extension in 1899). This too was capable of taking continental size trains. In the 1948 loco exchanges the Woodhead line was one of the few non - Great Western routes on which GWR locos were able to operate. This was because as a result of original being broad gauge the GWR had a larger loading gauge than most (but not all!) railways in Britain and as a result built larger locos and rolling stock.

I gather than plan is that the Grand Central line will be built to even larged than continental loading gauge so that double stack container trains can be run. In the Woodhead tunnel this would mean having a single track in the centre of the tunnel to enable the necessay clearances to be provided. (The two running tunnels of hte Channel tunnel are in fact the same size as the Woodhead tunnel!).

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload
On a personal note Cogload's brother has been accepted by First Capital Connect (Thameslink) as a trainee Driver (Engineer) for thier electric "tram" system from Bedford - Brighton. So good news and I would strongly advise everybody not to travel that route for a few years!

Is this the brother who takes all the train pictures? If so, I look forward to seeing his added collections.
(tram-[(-D])

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by martin.knoepfel

Is the Great Central the railroad that has been built to Continental clearances. This would be interesting for through freight without specialised (smaller and lower) cars.

Yes, it will be built (if and when it ever gets the go ahead) to the Continental loading gauge, but a lot of it will use previously abandoned RoW if I'm not too mistaken.

[martin.knoepfel]

Is the Great Central the railroad that has been built to Continental clearances. This would be interesting for through freight without specialised (smaller and lower) cars.

[John Bakeer]

No one can be right all the time, if it wasn't the Dutch got the 08's and 20's? they definately made the trip to Europe. Further enlightenment would be welcome.
Keep an eye on <centralrailway.co.uk> they have the ca***o re-open a railroad from Bootle to the Chunnel via Woodhead and the Great Central line. They failed to get their act of parliament through last term because all available time was taken up by ALF's getting a ban on hunting hairy vermin enacted.
John B.

[Anonymous]

that's East Cornwall......hehehehhehe. Its on the website which I even urge to the Brits to visit.

[mhurley87f]

I'm surprised no-one's yet suggested the Gunnislake Branch. I thought it well worth the effort - stunning views of the Tamar and Valley from the Calstock Viaduct.

Hwyl,

Martin.

[Anonymous]

Where are you going to base yourself id? First check out the following site...http://www.carfreedaysout.com/ - an excellent guide to the railways of Devon and Cornwall.

If driving remember that the roads in and out of the county (all three of them!) are uniformly rubbish and subject to severe congestion, especially the A30 across Indian Queens so build in extra time. Anyway if you are basing yourslef in the West of the County then the railway attractions are limited; I suggest

St Ives Branch. Lovely ride on a summers day with St Ives being a popular tourist destination. There is a park n ride service from Lelant Saltings with trains every 30 mins to to the Town. St Ives itself has an outpost of the Tate Modern to visit, there are pletny of beaches in the area (Carbis Bay) which are accessible by train. Another option is to go from St Erth if the traffic is bad. Incidentally, my advice is do not attempt to eat ice cream or your pasty on the sea front at St Ives. You will be attacked by the local birdlife.

To photograph trains then I suggest St Michaels Mount/ Marazion. The railway runs alongside the beach from there into Penzance. And you maybe able to get a good shot of the Castle in the bay in the background. Other would be to take a trip along the Fowey estuary and Golant, set your camera uo and wait long for a china clay trip out of the dries from Burngullow. Be warned. This traffic is drying up (groan) and is now down to one or two trains per day. That estuary is very well photographed and very scenic. Other branches in the area are the Falmouth and Newquay branches. Falmouth is the largest town in Cornwall and home of a maritime museum, it also sadly houses Penryn whoch is a hole. There is a service of 14 trains per day along a single track to the docks with a disused connection into the docks. The trip is quite scenic and there are connections at Truro off the mainline services. Newquay, the big Atlantic surf resort is served by 5 trains a day on saturday in high summer and 7 all stations during the weekdays. I suggest a ride along there...like going back in time.

There are some heritage railways in the "west" - the Bodmin and Wenford is one, the Lappa Valley (Narrow Gauge) is another and there is a group at Helston although they havent really got anything to see yet. More to the centre of the county there are heritage railways in the Launceston area, from memory one is NG one SG If I can remember.....


The tourist board is here...http://www.cornwalltouristboard.co.uk/... am on quick reply so missing out on all those lovely links.

[Hugh Jampton]

If youm goin to Cornwall be sure and visit the Bodmin and Wenford Railway.

http://www.bodminandwenfordrailway.co.uk/

[Isambard]

Here's the Royal Albert Bridge as seen from the train last June.

http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=28724&cat=500&ppuser=3182

[:)]

[Simon Reed]

The Dutch have never used BR Class 20's. Strictly speaking they've never used Class 08 either - a derivative of Class 10 was built for NS.

At present ACTS are using some Class 58's, and at one point an open access company - LoversRail - was seriously considering ex BR class 31's although nothing came of this.

[Tulyar15]

I think 'must see's in Cornwall include the Liskeard - Looe branch and the Royal Albert Bridge at Saltash. All the trains to/from Cornwall have to uset that bridge nowadays so all the passenger and freight trains will pass over it.

[daveklepper]

Trams are called streetcars or trolley cars in the USA and Canada, One characteristics that sets them apart from regular trains is the lack of train doors to go from car to car (even when coupled into two and three-car trains, mu or a motor with one or two trailers).

[Anonymous]

idhull. Cornwall eh?

There are various deals which can be had for family tickets, check websites of First Great Western and book ahead as far as possible.

If you want "freight" action - my answer is you will be very very hard in finding it. There is a little freight (China Clay) between Par and Fowey, however this is getting to be increasingly irregular and most of the other freight runs at night. In fact, Bristol and Westbury are probabley the nearest centres of freight to be honest. As for passenger trains, pretty darned frequent especially along the Devon Sea Wall (Dawlish - Teignmouth). The forecast is for a long hot summer here so this could an ideal location for a trip.

There are also plenty of heritage railways in both Devon and Cornwall to visit, as well as one just over the border in Somerset.

[Anonymous]

Going to Cornwall from Canada this summer for a couple of weeks. What are the best rail fan locations to get a mixture of freight and passenger trains in the southwest? I will be driving due to the high cost of rail tickets for a family so any location does not have to be accessible by rail.

[John Bakeer]

Hi Simon,
I dislike taking things too seriously. it causes boredom and loss of interest. I treat these jottings as conversation. I'm sorry if it offends you.
The Dutch got some 08's and 20's, some of which have been repatriated and put back into sevice, I believe an EM2 'Tommy?' is back in the UK.
The EM1's (Bo-Bo) were in the 26000 series and intended for freight service, the passenger EM2's (Co-Co) were named in the 27000 series and were all fitted with electrode boilers for steam heating.
John B.

[Tulyar15]

Actually some of the Woodhead EM1's DID have train heating - they were steam heated! I think those that were so-fitted were the ones that were given names. Some of them were run in on the Great Eastern line between London Liverpool St and Shenfield (which was electrified on 1500 Vdc in 1949 before being converted to 25 kv Ac in the 1960's). Under the TOPS classification scheme the EM1's became class 76 (the EM2's had by then been sold to Holland - had they remained with BR they would have been class 77). As it was for the EM1/76's it just meant changing the first digit of their numbers from a 2 to a 7 as they had previously been numbered in the 26xxx series.

[Simon Reed]

Martin - that may need a bit of clarification.

The locos - classified as EM2 in the UK - were built for the electrification of the Woodhead Tunnel route as passenger engines.

An externally identical class - EM1 - was built for freight work, with different gearings and without train heating equipment.

The locos were built long before electrification of the route was completed and some EM1's were sent to Holland on loan to assist in rebuilding the Dutch network which was largely destroyed in WW2.

When through passenger services on the Woodhead route came to an end in 1968 the seven EM2's were sold to NS.

Three survive in preservation, one of which, 1501 (BR 27003) is kept in working order in Utrecht and makes occasional main line appearances.

I'm not sure about your suggestion that we're going off topic, John. This thread just wanders around with no discernible purpose or direction, like the architypical British country branchline. Or me on a Friday night!

[martin.knoepfel]

Holland bought some English electric locomotives, when the Pennine-tunnel was closed and they became redundant.

The line ran on 1500DC, like the Dutch railroads, except for branch-lines and the Betuwe-line, which is 25kv 50 Hz AC.

[John Bakeer]

Gentlemen,
We seem to be drifting from th thread, I know Holland isn't exactly half a world away from UK, apart from them having used some of our EM's, 08's, 20's etc.
John B.

[BR60103]

Murphy:
the "tram" reference is like calling the Pennsy and extension of the New York subway system.

I have a note that the 2-foot gauge locomotive "Elidir" has been returned from Canada to Britain. I saw this stored in a barn (with another, slightly larger loco) many years ago. I don't think it has been steamed since it arrived here.

[beaulieu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marcimmeker

The design of the 1200 class was by Baldwin and Westinghouse if i remember correctly. There is a resemblance to the 1950's pennsy experimental machines as well as a Spanish class (forgot the class number).
Some 1200's are still active! 5 were saved by the bell as a judge forbade scrapping (they where already at the scrapper!).
ACTS, the first private freightoperator in the Netherlands bought them, four are running and one is used for spare parts.
See this link: http://www.acts-nl.com/NL/liefhebbers/fotogalerij/E1250.html
They often run (in multiple like the Milwaukee Road, no less) with these former Belgian locos: http://www.acts-nl.com/NL/liefhebbers/fotogalerij/DE6700.html
1201 is in the railroad museum in Utrecht I believe.

As for punctuality: week 22 is at 88,6%, up from 86,8 in week 19 and the target is 86%. These days management will get a bonus for that what the traindrivers get I don't know.
Marc Immeker

British video company FHP Audio Visual has a cab ride video of an ACTS 1200 on the Leeuwarden Shuttle running from Amersfoort to Kifhoek Yard. The driver is a NS Traction Inspector (Road Foreman) moonlighting for Spoorflex. Its clear that he really knows how to get the best out of the locomotive. You can clearly hear him working the tapchanger up and down the resistances, and they also show him at work. Later in the video he puts the ACTS driver to work and instructs him on the finer techniques of handling a 1200.
Yes Baldwin designed the mechanicals and Westinghouse (US) the electrical equipment, the same two companies built quite a few of the Pennsy's GG1s too.

[beaulieu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by martin.knoepfel

Why do the former NS-1200-class-locos run in MU with diesels? Do they get or deliver their trains on non-electrified spurs? This would be reasonable if you load/unload containers. Or do they need the diesels as boosters for starting from stand?

The diesel is needed for the line to the Rail Service Center at Waalhaven and to reach Maasvlakte, that line is, or will be, electrified at 25Kv AC. which the 1200 can't handle. cheaper to bring the diesel along rather than park it at Kifhoek.

[Anonymous]

hard hat and triple life insurance.

[martin.knoepfel]

Why do the former NS-1200-class-locos run in MU with diesels? Do they get or deliver their trains on non-electrified spurs? This would be reasonable if you load/unload containers. Or do they need the diesels as boosters for starting from stand?

[John Bakeer]

Murphy,
A simplistic answer to your query re. trams/trains.
Trams are usually of lightweight construction adapted for street running with boarding and alighting from street level (Manchester trams have retractable steps as they share some main line facilities); mdern UK trams are all single deck, the exception being Blackpool which has a fleet of vintage single and double deckers; Electric trains are used exclusively on reserved track with passenger access from high level platforms, these often share track/facilities with main line passenger and freight services. the exception is the Glasgow underground (subway) which has a non standard gauge of 1220mm (4'-00").
John B.

[MStLfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

If my guess is correct, they were'nt actually anything to do with Budd. The Belgians did have some Budd units built under licence (much as the Dutch had Baldwin electric loco's that bore a family resemblance to "Little Joe's") but then built their own stock which was very heavily influenced by the Budds.

It's a great tribute to their American designers that the Dutch Baldwins were very much front line traction until around ten years ago, having been built in 1951-3.

Dutch railways run - usually - with incredible punctuallity. I recall waiting at Utrecht one day for a Haarleem bound express that rolled in an unprecedented 10 minutes late behind Baldwin 1201, the class leader and my mate's last one for haulage.

I can only presume that the driver was in for a carpeting due to lateness because on VERY tight timings we were only 3 minutes late into Amsterdam. This was in 1995 so they were still capable of fast running right to the end.

The design of the 1200 class was by Baldwin and Westinghouse if i remember correctly. There is a resemblance to the 1950's pennsy experimental machines as well as a Spanish class (forgot the class number).
Some 1200's are still active! 5 were saved by the bell as a judge forbade scrapping (they where already at the scrapper!).
ACTS, the first private freightoperator in the Netherlands bought them, four are running and one is used for spare parts.
See this link: http://www.acts-nl.com/NL/liefhebbers/fotogalerij/E1250.html
They often run (in multiple like the Milwaukee Road, no less) with these former Belgian locos: http://www.acts-nl.com/NL/liefhebbers/fotogalerij/DE6700.html
1201 is in the railroad museum in Utrecht I believe.

As for punctuality: week 22 is at 88,6%, up from 86,8 in week 19 and the target is 86%. These days management will get a bonus for that what the traindrivers get I don't know.
Marc Immeker