British Railway Operations

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload

Slightly off topic here but hey. Yesterday morning the Up "Hind" (0507 Penzance - London Paddington) encountered a shopping trolley/ goggle box set which had been placed on the line at Dolcoath and promptly knocked the air cocks out. That train stood for two hours. Crawled into Cogloads station at around 07:45 (booked to depart at 05:42!). Train terminated. Queue of trains behind to Penzance. Sent train back to Pigsarse (Long Rock). Then the points failed in reverse at the west end. The 06:01 arrival crawled in at around 08:40. The first train East was eventually sent on its way at 09:10.

As you may imagine, there was a hefty queue especially on an AB railway with rather long signal sections. Managed to eventually sit down at 11:30 ish and rant at the world.

Today, sun shining, workwent smoothly and have just been for a 4 mile walk along Penhale beach with the sun setting and a smooth late evening tide with enough to tempt the late evening surfers. Turn 180 and the moon was low in the early evening sky, bright as a button. All what was missing was female company. Moral of the story - your work does not have to follow you home and I am very lucky to live where I do.

Just thought I would share that.

cogload: I do enjoy your commentary, although I'd have to admit that it sometimes requires multiple readings for me to fully understand. You're description of the ocean sure does sound like paradise to those of us that live 1500 miles from an ocean. Thanks

[Tulyar15]

Yes, Cornwall is one of the nicest parts of Britain.

[John Bakeer]

Have non of you guys been north of Watford?
John B.

[Anonymous]

yes. born in Oxford.

[germanium]

Yes I've been north of Watford - some nice caves up there, but the dinosaurs are a bit scary !

[John Bakeer]

GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
They play footy here with foriegn poofters.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Bakeer

GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
They play footy here with foriegn poofters.
John B.

??? But do they provide translation services for thoses of us west of the Atlantic who aren't even sure what you mean?[:0]

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Bakeer

GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
They play footy here with foriegn poofters.
John B.

??? But do they provide translation services for thoses of us west of the Atlantic who aren't even sure what you mean?[:0]

Well you can buy dialect books in Illkley, the Yorkshire Town famous for its moor and the song "On Ilkley Moor 'baht hat" (which translated into ROW English means "On Ilkley Moor without a hat".

[Anonymous]

they play rugby here with everybody not born West of the Tamar.

Drop the caricatures chaps.

n.b. I don't think they have discovered "fire" yet in some parts of Yorkshire....;-)

[John Bakeer]

Oh dear!
I must apologise to all you folks overseas, my outburst was provoked by the wall to wall coverage given to an Irish foot. Still I made a tenner on the Scousers (not that there were many English players in the team).
Cogload,
Who do you think built the A1,2,3,4s and Deltics, and produced the steel. We were building railroads while the southern Brits were still knee deep in the bi-products of bovines.
Of the 200-odd counties; Yorkshire is the UK's largest. May I remind you; that there are over 150 north of Watford including Wales and Scotland. I live in N Cheshire just outside Manchester the UK's second largest city.
If you want to hear North/South nobbling? You should tune into some of the US forums.
They do a fine line in insults without rancour, as anyone who has sat in the vault of a northern pub will attest.
Murphy,
Send your language queries to me and I will try to translate (The UK and USA are divided by a common langauge).
To All,
Please don't suppress humour, laughter makes the world a better place.
John B.

[germanium]

And, there are as nice people and countryside North of Watford as there are South of Watford. Dunno about Watford itself !!
(We won't mention the Cup Final yesterday !!)

Does anyone do an Engli***o American dictionary ? - I'm sure Murphy could use one.

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by germanium

And, there are as nice people and countryside North of Watford as there are South of Watford. Dunno about Watford itself !!
(We won't mention the Cup Final yesterday !!)

Does anyone do an Engli***o American dictionary ? - I'm sure Murphy could use one.

It would go something like:

English:US

Lift/Elevator
Engine/Motor
Bonnet/Hood
Sleeper/Tie
Point/Switch
Bogie/Truck
Wagon/Car

and so on, forever...

M636C

[Murphy Siding]

OK I'm catching on now. All this fuss is about a soccer (or rugby?) game.[(-D]

I've marveled at how the Brits on this forum seem to be more civil to each other than us Americans. Maybe sports is what gets you riled up, instead of GE vs.EMD.[:)]
Have a good day-and I hope your team wins.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

(For the benefit of those not familiar with British locos, they are given a coloured symbol to indicate which other locos they can work in multiple with. Most of the classic diesel electrics are coded "Blue Star" whilst the newer heavy freight diesels - classes 56 and 58 are "Red Diamond".

[(-D]This makes me think of something American children's clothing reatilers came up with about 20 years ago. It was called "Garanimals". Each shirt and pants had an animal on the label. Match the labels, and your clothes match. It was a feable ( and I think failed [;)]) attempt to get Americans to dress better.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Bakeer
Cogload,
Who do you think built the A1,2,3,4s and Deltics, and produced the steel. We were building railroads while the southern Brits were still knee deep in the bi-products of bovines.

Really? Then how do you explain the following:-

1st Public Railway - Surrey Iron Railway, 1801
1st Passengenger Railway - Oystermouth Railway, 1807

and the Canterbury and Wiltstable Railway opened May 1830, four months ahead of the Liverpool and Manchester!

As for the Deltics, I thought they were all built at Vulan Foundry which is in Cheshire not Yorkshire.

To be honest, I think the better half of Britain is that which lies north and/or west of a diagnonal line from Bristol to the Humber estuary. Generally I find people are more friendly on that side of the line.

[John Bakeer]

Tulyar,
<Middlet railway .org.uk>
1758 early enough.
Leeds was home to more locomotive builders than anywhere, Hunslet, Hudswell Clarke. Fowler. etc.
John B.

[mhurley87f]

The second Public Railway, i.e.authorised by Parliament, the Carmarthenshire Railway (and precursor to the Llanelli & Mynydd Mawr Railway) is reputed to have pipped the Surry Iron Railway at the post and opened first.

Was the Middleton Railway the grandaddy -wasn't an earlier tramway extant (around Prestonpans/Musselborough to the east of Edinburgh) at the time of the 1745 rebellion??

Certainly, by around 1800, there would have been dozens of tramways feeding the sizable number of Blast Furnaces going full blast (it was the time of the Napoleonic Wars, after all), as well as the canals, navigations, and estuarine and coastal shipping points wherever coal could be mined at shallow depths.

Martin

[Anonymous]

if you wanto argue abouth the firwst railway then we could go on about the Merthyr tramway (1798) or even the one on the top of Dartmoor.

As for paying passengers. Richard Trevethick and the "Catch me if you Can". 1801 ish. Cornishman you know......hehehehhehehe.

I thought Birmingham was the UK's second largest city?

Anyway. I was bought up in Chester which is definately north of Watford and as my parents were NOT releated to each other before they got married I am not sure if I count as Cornish either... :-).

Association Football...pah. Rugby Football. Proper mans sport!

200 counties in England? Eh? 20 maybe. Not 200.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

Yes, Cornwall is one of the nicest parts of Britain.

Yes indeed! See link - unfortunately no trains seen in photos so far.
http://www.cornwallcam.co.uk/
[:)]

[Anonymous]

Its a bit duller here than those pics at minute me'andsome!

[METRO]

Alright all, I could use a bit of help.

I'm toying with the idea of building a small British layout in OO, probably a 4'x'8' set in current times. Now I've always loved the heavy passenger nature of Brit railroading, would I be able to run some commuter passenger, as well as some industrial shunting, on such a small layout and have it be not toy-like?

Also, my four things I'd like to include would be (in order of importaince)
1: commuter passenger operations
2: industrial shunting
3: run-through distance passenger
4: local freight operations
Does anyone have any ideas for a prototypical area where I could have those?

Finally, I've been looking on the Hornby website at all those wonderful British models avalible to everyone except those in the United States and Canada, does anyone know where I'd be able to get UK equipment here in the USA (Milwaukee) or in Canada (Toronto) or websites that would ship to the states.

Thanks mates!
Cheers!
~METRO

[Simon Reed]

Metro - where do you want to start??

This link might give you a few ideas generally :- http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/

What era are you thinking of? My initial thought is that you're looking to pack a lot into 4'x8' although if you were to set your timescale (if that's important to you) in the '60's when wagonload freight still ruled you might get away with it.

If you're wanting the diesel era this link could be useful:- http://www.demu.co.uk/ and it has a forum too. BR60103 - who appears on here on here occasionally - is, I think, a Canadian based modeller of UK prototypes and may also be able to help.

UK model railway magazines that you might want to try to subscribe to are:-
Railway Modeller - http://www.peco-uk.com/rm/rm_home.htm
British Railway Modelling - http://www.brmodelling.com/main/default.asp
Modelrail - http://www.greatmagazines.co.uk/store/displaystore.asp?sid=356

I wish you luck - I model British modern image (1991-4) for my club layout and Conrail/NJT for my home layout. If you need any further advice, or help, or encouragement feel free to e-mail me or contact me through these pages.

I missed the Cup Final as I was at work. I'm sure it was'nt as good as Barrow - v - Leek Town in the FA Vase at Wembley in 1990. I'd just passed my PSV test (bus driving license, USA folks) the previous week and drove 53 Barrow fans back home after leaping up and down at their 4 - 2 victory.

And as for North - South divides...I was born in Lancashire, brought up in Cumberland, then Cumbria and now live in Yorkshire with a native of Milngavie, Glasgow. I've grown out of territorial loyalties by necessity!

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by METRO

Alright all, I could use a bit of help.

Finally, I've been looking on the Hornby website at all those wonderful British models avalible to everyone except those in the United States and Canada, does anyone know where I'd be able to get UK equipment here in the USA (Milwaukee) or in Canada (Toronto) or websites that would ship to the states.

Thanks mates!
Cheers!
~METRO

Ads for these two hobby stores in June MR indicate they carry Hornby products:

Broughdale Hobby 1444 Glenora Drive, London, Ontario, www.rrhobby.ca

The Doll House & Train Emporium, 24 John Street, Port Hope, Ontario, www.thetrainemporium.com

[:)]

[Simon Reed]

Bachmann UK and Heljan are also manufacturers of UK prototypes well worth looking into.

Whatever happened to the old "what are we listening to?" subtext? I ask because I've just dug out an old Jesus and Mary Chain CD and am enjoying it immensly.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by METRO

Alright all, I could use a bit of help.

I'm toying with the idea of building a small British layout in OO, probably a 4'x'8' set in current times. Now I've always loved the heavy passenger nature of Brit railroading, would I be able to run some commuter passenger, as well as some industrial shunting, on such a small layout and have it be not toy-like?

Also, my four things I'd like to include would be (in order of importaince)
1: commuter passenger operations
2: industrial shunting
3: run-through distance passenger
4: local freight operations
Does anyone have any ideas for a prototypical area where I could have those?

Finally, I've been looking on the Hornby website at all those wonderful British models avalible to everyone except those in the United States and Canada, does anyone know where I'd be able to get UK equipment here in the USA (Milwaukee) or in Canada (Toronto) or websites that would ship to the states.

Thanks mates!
Cheers!
~METRO

Would any area in Britain have all that in a compressed area?

[John Bakeer]

Metro/Murphy,
USA imprters of British outline advertise in Model Railroader, they also advertise on this web site.
Also visit <www.peco-uk.com> They publish a booklet on small layout plans which may help.
Huddersfield in the old West Riding of Yorkshire had just about everything with the gas works siding running down the middle of the street, but you will not find anything like this today, it all died out in the 60s. So you are looking at late steam/early deisel era.
John B.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by METRO

Alright all, I could use a bit of help.

I'm toying with the idea of building a small British layout in OO, probably a 4'x'8' set in current times. Now I've always loved the heavy passenger nature of Brit railroading, would I be able to run some commuter passenger, as well as some industrial shunting, on such a small layout and have it be not toy-like?

Also, my four things I'd like to include would be (in order of importaince)
1: commuter passenger operations
2: industrial shunting
3: run-through distance passenger
4: local freight operations
Does anyone have any ideas for a prototypical area where I could have those?

Finally, I've been looking on the Hornby website at all those wonderful British models avalible to everyone except those in the United States and Canada, does anyone know where I'd be able to get UK equipment here in the USA (Milwaukee) or in Canada (Toronto) or websites that would ship to the states.

Thanks mates!
Cheers!
~METRO

Would any area in Britain have all that in a compressed area?

I can think of quite a few areas. AS I've mentioned before, one of the shortest freight flows in Britain is one the Isle of Sheppey, where steel scrap is taken from the scrapyard at Queenborough to the steelworks at Sheerness a distance of less than 10 miles. The island is connected to the mainland by a road and rail lifting bridge. The line to Sheerness is double track as far as the bridge on the mainland side then the rest of it is single track with a passing loop and Queenborough and a run round loop at the terminus at Sheerness. The scrapyard's internal rail network also includes a branch to a nearby harbour for both import and export of steel. The line is electrified on 3rd rail

Further west in Cornwall, the Newquay branch still has a number of freight sidings serving China clay pits. In summer it still sees the occassional loco hauled passenger train plus HSTs but loco hauled trains now have to be top and tailed (like my railtour!) as the run round loop at Newquay was removed in the 1980's. I have also previously commented on the Looe branch in Cornwall - with its 180 degree curves it provides the prototype for just about everything! You wouldn't think an EMD cl 66 would get round those curves but they do!

In SW Wales the Milford Haven line includes several sidings serving oil refineries. Up till the 1980's Milford Haven also had loco hauled passengers including an overnight sleeper from Paddington. The neighbouring port of Fishguard used to see tractors and cars exported to Ireland while the nearby naval stores depot at Trecwm was also rail served. (I gather there's talk of it re-eopening as a container terminal).

[daveklepper]

Simon, I checked and my friend was referring to an earlier visit regarding the GM engined Brush diesels. Thanks for the correction.

[Anonymous]

Regarding the modelling question, you may be best using a bit of modeller's license in a real location. For example, Aberystwyth on the West Wales coast. The usual service is a 2-car Class 158 DMU (offered by Bachmann in the right colour scheme, or at least, they offer the livery of the last one I saw a few weeks ago!) but we've also had timber trains (the Railtrack MPVs aren't available RTR but they did send a Class 37 as backup on the first run, so you could stretch reality and use the Bachmann model with Cambrian timber wagon kits). We also get railtours, so pretty much any loco you like the look of could haul these with a rake of MK1/MK2 coaches (Bachmann offer these again). The '37 could easily be used on a railtour as well as on the timber trains.

A few links:

http://www.garethbayer.co.uk/wotw/ Wagons on the Web - useful info on freight stock.
http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/4frame.html Cambrian Models - they offer timber wagon kits. You can buy these (along with wheels, couplers, etc) from www.mainlytrains.com

[BR60103]

Metro:
I live just outside Toronto. We just had the Great Briti***rain Show - the largest and best all-British railway show in North America. (I say without fear of contradiction -- there isn't another one.)
We had a pile of dealers there.
Also try http://home.ca.inter.net/~brmna/index.html, the British Railway Modellers of North America. They have a dealers area on their site. Might be one near you.
Do you get to Toronto often? I can find some dealers for you.