British Railway Operations

[John Bakeer]

Hugh,
The Railway Technical web page is, as you say, 'highly informative' I shall consult it whenever I am (frequently) baffled. There'sonly one problem, they don't have anything on Train Simulators!
It's all in the overhead.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Perhaps this has been explained before, on this, or another thread. What is the difference between vacuum brakes and air brakes?

As usual,, I direct you towards Railway Technical where their brakes pages has more info on brakes than should be legal,, and there's pictures too,,,

http://www.railway-technical.com/air-brakes.html for air brakes
http://www.railway-technical.com/vacuum.html for vac brakes

Thank you Thank you! I'll be spending my afternoon reading about train brakes.[:)]

[Simon Reed]

I've spent my afternoon - and evening - in The Black Swan, Frizinghall, Bradford.

I rarely get Sundays off - and even more rarely get off the domestic leash - so you'll forgive me, hopefully, but to maintain the railway link I did get to see 6 trains an hour going past.....

John - any idea where this Eames machine worked on the L&Y? The GNR was built with reasonable clearances so I guess it may have seen better use there.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

I'm also a bit surprised about this.

I can't claim to be an L&Y historian but I DO know that they tended to build with limited clearances wherever they could.

Nevertheless, the widest passenger cars ever to run in Britain were the L & Y EMU's built in 1904 for the Liverpool - Southport electrification. These had 10' wide bodies - wider than anything the GWR ever built. The LMS designed EMU's which replaced them in 1938 had 9' 6" bodies (class 502) which the similar looking units for the Wirral Line (class 503) had 8' 6" bodies.

I'm no expert on the L & Y but sometime ago I bought an old book 2nd hand entitled "The L & Y in the 20th century". I forget the author's name but he joined the L & Y in 1908 and when the book was published (sometime in the 1950's if I remember correctly) he was regarded as an expert on the L & Y. Needless to say his book is an excellent read about one of the most progressive pre-grouping (1923) rail co's in Britain.

[John Bakeer]

Simon,
The L&YRailway Society news sheet No 100 refers to a document 'USA to Leeds via Manchester Victoria and Camelback'. the same publication contains articles on train control, continuous brakes and brake trials.
I spend most of my midweek afternoons in The Grapes and/or The Armoury either side of the overbridge just outside Stockport Edgeley on the ECML, hear plenty of action, can't see a darned thing!
Shipley station has three faces on a triangular junction and I believe it also has a bar.
John B.

[John Bakeer]

Simon,
When I drank there in the early 60's it was/is known as 'The mukky Duck'.
Tulyar,
The L&Y had some nine foot wide tenders, I refer to my previous submission.
John B.

[Simon Reed]

The Swan is still referred to as the Mucky Duck, you'll be pleased to learn.

Any ideas on where the bar from which the most railway action can be seen is? I think we need to qualify this by specifying diversity as well as quantity.

My nomination - off the top of my head - would be the Bahnhofbar at Thalwil, just South of Zurich, although there's a bar in Namur, Belgium, that would come close.

[Anonymous]

The idea of bidding for paths was enshrined in the 94 Railways Act where the pillocks in the treasury thought the ever inventive hand of the free market would see operators bid for prime paths - and put ina process that they could undertake this every 8 weeks (the Peterborough Process!). This was junked when the consequences were pointed out.

It does not suprise me that there is a move to undertake differential pricing for paths especially when the train operators themselves opertae differential pricing for the trains.

p.s. Both The GNER and Great Western Franchises are already in deep, deep manure. Watch this space.....

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload

The idea of bidding for paths was enshrined in the 94 Railways Act where the pillocks in the treasury thought the ever inventive hand of the free market would see operators bid for prime paths - and put ina process that they could undertake this every 8 weeks (the Peterborough Process!). This was junked when the consequences were pointed out.

It does not suprise me that there is a move to undertake differential pricing for paths especially when the train operators themselves opertae differential pricing for the trains.

p.s. Both The GNER and Great Western Franchises are already in deep, deep manure. Watch this space.....

Someone actually thought that several railroad companies would keep sufficient equipment on hand, just in case they were the low-bidder ? Then 8 weeks later, they could lose the low bid, and someone else would be running a line? Wow. It appears not too many railroad people were in on the planning level of this?

[BR60103]

There is a writeup and a photo of the Lovett Eames lcoc in the book Top Shed by P.N.Townend Ian Allen, 1975). I'll summarize what I can. (Tried last week, hit the wrong key and dropped off the internet without posting.) [8]
The locomotive was the 5000th built by Baldwin, in 1880. 4-2-2 tender locomotive with 6'6" driving wheels, a Wooten firebox with a 56 sq ft grate, and weighed 38 tons. Had been built for express runs on the Philadelphia & Reading but was unsuccessful. Lovett Eames, American inventor, bought it to demonstrate the vacuum brake he had invented, and shipped it to England in 1881. It was erected at the Miles Platting works of the L&Y in 1882; was exhibited at the Alexandra Palace in July in an exhibition of life-saving devices.
Eames planned that the loco should be a demonstration of his duplex automatic Vacuum brake, and applied to run it on the Great Northern. Patrick Sterling examined it and could not recommend the loco be run on any trains on the GNR. He also turned down an offer to fit the system to a train. He said the board should be very careful not to do anything that would suggest recognition of the system.
The loco was stabled at Wood Green after the Ally Pally exhibition. It may have been run on some demonstration trains ...
May 1884, Eames left the loco in the hands of the GNR while he went back to the US for 6 weeks. He was assassinated in July 1884. [:0] The GNR auctioned the loco off for pds 165, but claimed expenses of pds 61.12s.10d. It was cut up at Wood Green, but the bell went to King's Cross Shed and then Hornsey, where it was used as a time signal.
(I have pulled a lot of this straight from the book. Top Shed was the name of the loco depot at King's Cross.)

[John Bakeer]

Thanks David,
That seems to sew up the Camelback issue for me.
Simon,
Your point about bars on stations and the associated train spotting possibilities calls for some serious research! But lets stick to the UK and proper cask conditioned beer, my travel pass only covers Greater Manchester.
John B.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

The Swan is still referred to as the Mucky Duck, you'll be pleased to learn.

Any ideas on where the bar from which the most railway action can be seen is? I think we need to qualify this by specifying diversity as well as quantity.

Doesn't Clapham Junction have at least 1 bar?

Not necessarily the busiest, but the Railway at Dinmore, Herefordshire has a lovely view of the Hereford - Shrewsbury as it enters the southern portal of Dinmore Tunnel.

The Railway at Defford, Worcestershire (on Upton-on-Severn - Pershore Road) is by the site of Deffordd station on the Gloucester - Birmingham main line, just north of where it crosses the River Avon (as in Stratford-on).

[John Bakeer]

David,
I've been in touch with the NRM about the Robert Eames bell (the science museum put me on to them), and I have recieved an e-mail which indicates they may be able to locate it.
John B.

[John Bakeer]

Tulyar,
The station buffet at Staleybridge is in the CAMRA good beer guide.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

And now you're discussing trains AND beer, two of my favorite things?

[mhurley87f]

Talking of lineside 'pubs, we have two down here that have rather inappropriate locomotives depicted on the pub signs outside.

At Penclawdd, on the erstwhile LNWR / LMS Gowerton - Llanmorlais Branch, there's a pub sign adorned with a nice painting of a GWR Pannier Tank, which would have run there for a maximum of 5 years before its closure, while bizarrely, at Burry Port, the "Engine Inn," which backs on to Pembrey Signal Box, has a painting of a GNR Large Atlantic, which would never have been seen nearer than 200 miles !!

Are there any others out there?

Martin

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Bakeer

Tulyar,
The station buffet at Staleybridge is in the CAMRA good beer guide.
John B.

I know! (I'm an active CAMRA member and past chairman of the Herefordshire branch!)

Talking of pub signs with inappropriate locos on them, I can think of two examples:-

1) The Railway, Malvern Wells, has a picture of a Midland Compound 4-4-0. It's possible these worked the Worcester - Hereford line in post WW2 years (the Midland always ran a faster commuter train from Gt. Malvern to Birmingham New St. and in the 1940's and 1950's all sorts of locos turned up - Midland Compouns, "Flying Pig" moguls (Ivatt cl 4), assorted 2-6-4T's. Probably the piece de resistance, towards the end of steam was 7P 4-6-0 #6100 "Royal Scot"!

2) The Midland Spinner, by the old station at Warmley (on the former Midland Bristol - Bath (Green Park) line, has on its pub sign NOT a Midland 4-2-2 (these were known as "Spinners" but a GW Hall 4-6-0!

[Simon Reed]

The Furness Railway, Barrow-in-Furness, has a very "artists impression" of an 1848 Bury 0-6-0 on it's sign, with two wheels on one side and three on the other.

A casual observer could be forgiven for thinking that large sticks of celery were used as connecting rods on these engines....

[Murphy Siding]

What is CAMRA?

[BR60103]

CAMRA is a bunch of guys that think one beer tastes different from another, and it tastes better if it's stirred by shepherds in bare feet.

[Hugh Jampton]

CAMpaign for Real Ale..
An organisation for people who love the warm flat beer they sell in this country.

http://www.camra.org.uk/ is their website.

[Murphy Siding]

You had me interested, untill you said warm, flat beer.[xx(] Now, cold,dark beer, that's another subject.... Most railroad images that appear in advertizing images that I see, have to do with banking and mortgages. Mortgage express is one. I work 2 blocks down the street from "8th & Raiload Center". Both use caricatures of 1950's streamliner locomotives.[xx(]

[Tulyar15]

Meanwhile, getting back to railways, I'm going on a railtour to Barmouth tomorrow, hauled by two class 33 diesel locos. It's the first time these locos have been allowed to haul a passenger train over the viaduct over the Mawddach estuary ar Barmouth; indeed it'll be only the second time over the Mawwddach viaduct. I gather from MAchynlleth the train will be top'd and tailed; normally the procedure with railtours since the Mawddach viaduct was re-opened to locos last year is only one loco per train.

The trip's organised by Pathfinder Tours so I'll be able to get some 'warm' beer on the train too

[John Bakeer]

Mr Jampton,
You are obviously a southerner where the beer is usually unpalletable, due to the inability of landlords and customers to tell the difference between beer and the nats-pee lager you all buy because an advert featuring a pnuematic blonde says it is good!!!!
Murphy,
Don't listen to the unenlightened, Frederick Robinson here in Stockport brews rhe finest and it has slaked the thirst of enginmen at Edgeley shed 9B for many years (in steam days). It's thanks to CAMRA that we can now drink real ale instead of the American style root beers they tried to fob us off with in the 60's. Watneys, Whitbread, Ind Coop etc, all based around London.
As for a person from outside the Uk knowing anything about beer?(BR60103) The mind boggles, Miller, Budweiser, Coors, Yukkk!!!
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

Meanwhile, getting back to railways, I'm going on a railtour to Barmouth tomorrow, hauled by two class 33 diesel locos. It's the first time these locos have been allowed to haul a passenger train over the viaduct over the Mawddach estuary ar Barmouth; indeed it'll be only the second time over the Mawwddach viaduct. I gather from MAchynlleth the train will be top'd and tailed; normally the procedure with railtours since the Mawddach viaduct was re-opened to locos last year is only one loco per train.

The trip's organised by Pathfinder Tours so I'll be able to get some 'warm' beer on the train too

Tulyar15: As a favor for us on this side of the Atlantic, whose train-riding ventures are very slim, can you tell us about what a "typical" day on a railtour would be like for you? I know that I, for one, would enjoy hearing about it. Thanks.

[Tulyar15]

Murphy - these days a typical day on a railtour usually involves an early start and a long day. The tour I went on yesterday, was due tostart from Taunton Somersety at 5:30 am. I joined it at Cheltenham, where the scheduled time was 7:20. Due to an hour late start it was more like 8:20. Fortunately because it was a tour where we had a couple of hours lay over at the destination we were able to return on time, and our return to Cheltenham was at the scheduled time of 20:40 (8:40pm). Some tours are run to do linrd that arent used by passenger trains. some in order to visit have a particular type of loco for haulage. Some of the longer tours, particularly those going to Scotland may start on a Friday night.

One of the problems scheduling these tours is most of the diesel locos than UK railfans want are limited to 90mph; with all the 125mph trains about these days it harder to schedule these tours.

[Anonymous]

Nedding specials are pains in the backsides IMHO. Sorry. I do not like them, if you wqant to ride behind funny locomotives, go on a heritage railway. There (stereotype and generalization alert) ypou can do Nazi style waves and shout "hellfire" to your hearts content.

However, they do bring the cash in and are a useful earner to the bottom line for some branches.

[BR60103]

John:
I believe the three you mentioned come from south of the border. However, I'll concede a point that Canadian beer may be the reason I never developed a taste for it.

[John Bakeer]

Sorry David,
My limited knowledge of the swig market west of the mid atlantic ridge is due to my health and not able to cross the pond, is only based on the experiences of other brits who can swim.
The feed back I get is that almost without exception all US/ Can. beer is completely undrinkable and has to be near frozen in order to paralise the taste buds.
Nevertheless my computer gives me the chance to drive N American trains as well as UK and some European. The management gives me stick for refusing to stop short of a signal (for lunch).
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

Tulyar15 : Thanks for sharing. What can you see at 90 mph? I've ridden on 5 different, little American tourists trains. I doubt if any of them topped 15mph[:(]

Cogload: I do enjoy your posts, You do add a different perspective to things. I would guess that your dislike is caused by extra headaches for railroad operating people?

Thanks