British Railway Operations

[malcolmyoung]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Bakeer

Sorry David,
My limited knowledge of the swig market west of the mid atlantic ridge is due to my health and not able to cross the pond, is only based on the experiences of other brits who can swim.
The feed back I get is that almost without exception all US/ Can. beer is completely undrinkable and has to be near frozen in order to paralise the taste buds.
Nevertheless my computer gives me the chance to drive N American trains as well as UK and some European. The management gives me stick for refusing to stop short of a signal (for lunch).
John B.

I have visited the U.S. and can confirm what you heard about American beer, as Monty Python once observed, "It's like having sex in a canoe, f**king close to water". They can even manage to ruin good English ale, I stayed a few days at the Dearborn Inn, near Detroit and was delighted when i went to the bar to see that they sold Bass on draught, so I ordered a pint, The barmaid had no idea what a pint was, so I ordered a glass, she then produced a frozen glass from the fridge and filled it with near frozen ale, I had to ask her to give it 10 seconds in the microwave to try to make it drinkable!
Malc, (real ale drinker).

[martin.knoepfel]

As far as beer is cocerned, I recommend a trip to Belgium. And interesting train-action, too.

[Anonymous]

re: Beer. I did purchase an extremely expensive pint of Boddingtons in Victoria BC a few years ago on the basis that it was probabley the only drinkable stuff there. Apart from that there was a 4 pack of "American" Budweiser in the firdge which has mostly been demolished. If you want to taste proper Ale then Sharps Doombar can be recommended.

Murphy - enthusiasts specials can be pains to timetable, pains to run and have an unfortunate tendancy to fail. Once in a former life I managed to tie up one of the only 4 through platforms at Edinburgh Waverley for 4 hours by refusing to move a train hehehehehee... VSOE is a lot classier and therefore is excluded from this rant. There have also been times when trouble has broken out ....I am a shareholder in a heritage railway (the West Somerset) where top speed is 25MPH and all is very genteel. I personally dont care what is on the front as long as it gets me home.

However they do bring in a valuable source of revenue so they will be tolerated.

[Murphy Siding]

cogload: What do you mean by being a shareholder? These aren't for-profit ventures, are they?

If I understand the system right (which I probably don't), The railtour company has to *bid* (?) for the slot on a rail line?

[John Bakeer]

Murphy,
It is possible under English law to own shares in non-profit making enterprises/charities, there are no dividends and the purchase of (a) share(s) is classed as an open ended loan which is in most cases not redeemable, unles the organisation is purchased by normal for prifits organisation. ie. A building society being bought by a bank. But this whole subject is a maze of rules and regulations, basically when investing in rail preservation you kiss your money goodby, but returns are not what it is about.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

John: I understand now. Thanks. Owning stock in a heritage railway would be a nice way of saying "I support this cause with a donation".[:)]

[Anonymous]

The West Somerset issues shares; 10 pence each. It is basically a donation as 99.9999% of coampanies which issue shares will never pay a dividend and they are not listed anywhere as far as I can see (squints at the Financial Times). If it [the WSR] goes bust I will probabley end up getting 0.01pence or a chair from a sleeper as my contribution! HOWEVER, there is one exception which I think is the Paignton and Dartmouth SR or whatever it is called these days. This does pay a divi, as the company owns other bitsnpieces as well such as cruise ships and the like.

The Railtour company will ask an operator with a licence (usually EWS) to, in effect bid for a slot. The price will be agreed for TA, locomotive and stock hire and the like and then passed on to the punter.

There are regular slots in the tt for pullman trains etc. However charters are usually STP (Short Term Planning) and coded "Z". I do not like them. However I understand why they run.

[John Bakeer]

The more you dig, the bigger the hole! More effort, less substance. Add Inf.
John B.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Bakeer

Murphy,
It is possible under English law to own shares in non-profit making enterprises/charities, there are no dividends and the purchase of (a) share(s) is classed as an open ended loan which is in most cases not redeemable, unles the organisation is purchased by normal for prifits organisation. ie. A building society being bought by a bank. But this whole subject is a maze of rules and regulations, basically when investing in rail preservation you kiss your money goodby, but returns are not what it is about.
John B.

Aye! And Scottish law too! For my sins, I'm a shareholder in the Strathspey Railway and in a couple of their locos. Nearer to home I'm also a shareholder in the Dean Forest Railway.

Cogload may not like railtours but the people of Wales do. When the first railtour ran on the Cambrian Coast line to Pwllheli in January 2005 the shopkeepers etc of the town were sure glad of an influx of 400 people that day! Even the Welsh Weather behaved that day itself, even allowing the sun to come out! On last Saturday too we had beautiful weather. I even met Peter Watts, Managing Director of Pathfinder Tours on the beech at Barmouth!

[Anonymous]

You can always tell the rare occasions when we have a railtour on the Heart of Wales line. The local supermarket sells out of all ready-made sandwiches and drinks, and the newsagents next to the station sells their entire stock of rail-related magazines within minutes. In terms of income it's like having an entire day's customers through the doors in two hours!

[Tulyar15]

Here's a pic of the tour I went on last Saturday, taken just after it emerged from the avalanche shelter near Fairbourne (Barmouth is visible in the distance). If you look carefully you might even be able to spot my head leaning out of the last car. At that precise moment I was filming with my video camera!


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=142769

[daveklepper]

Thanks for the terrific photo!

[John Bakeer]

Tulyar,
A great pic. indeed. (Got the Cambrian coast route on my train sim. Took the V,irgin Voyager over it last night, I know it's not the real thing but it's the nearest I can get.)
I have been on the site and it seems interesting, covering a world of railroad activities.
Trouble is, like a lot of these sites, access is limited until you go thropugh a complicated registration rigmorole.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

Here's a pic of the tour I went on last Saturday, taken just after it emerged from the avalanche shelter near Fairbourne (Barmouth is visible in the distance). If you look carefully you might even be able to spot my head leaning out of the last car. At that precise moment I was filming with my video camera!


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=142769

I guarantee this is a dumb question. Does that train have a locomotive at both ends?
Thanks

[Simon Reed]

Murphy - Tulyar will explain but yes it does.

In the UK - and indeed Europe generally - trains are bi-directional. We don't reverse trains on a "wye." If a train needs to go in the opposite direction there are two prinicipal options:-

1 - The driver (engineer) simply walks to the cab at the other end of the train and sets off using the controls there. This is almost universal in European, Japanese and Australasian passenger trains and is a methodology adopted in North American Commuter rail. Amtrak use this means of working with their "Cabbages", and on the Talgo trainsets in the Northwest.

2 - Either the loco uses a siding to "run round" it's train or a different loco is put on the opposite end. This method is used primarily on freight trains where the consist is not permanent.

The train pictured went to Barmouth, and is formed of older BR stock which is not cab-car compatible. There are no longer facilities for loco's to run round at Barmouth so a loco at each end was necessary to enable Tulyar to come back home again.

Not a dumb question, just a situation that you'll not experience every day in Sioux Falls! Hope I've answered it.

[Simon Reed]

Tulyar, Cogload and Matt:-

It's a long time since I've done a railtour in the UK - 10 years plus - partially due to the stereotypes so lovingly described by Cogload.

I have, however, been to Pwhelli twice on railtours (2 x 25's and 2 x 31's) so I'm not sure that January 2005 was the first time a tour has been there.

I also went on a South Wales tour with lots of 37's one Sunday, which had a long pathing stop at Rhymny, in the afternoon.

The only thing that was open was a small corner shop and within 20 minutes it had virtually sold out of EVERYTHING! There were two old ladies running it and they did'nt know whether to laugh or cry. One guy bought a whole jar of jellybabies from behind the counter, and someone who might possibly answer to the name of Simon Reed bought the whole stock of Chocolate Buttons....

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Murphy - Tulyar will explain but yes it does.

In the UK - and indeed Europe generally - trains are bi-directional. We don't reverse trains on a "wye." If a train needs to go in the opposite direction there are two prinicipal options:-

1 - The driver (engineer) simply walks to the cab at the other end of the train and sets off using the controls there. This is almost universal in European, Japanese and Australasian passenger trains and is a methodology adopted in North American Commuter rail. Amtrak use this means of working with their "Cabbages", and on the Talgo trainsets in the Northwest.

2 - Either the loco uses a siding to "run round" it's train or a different loco is put on the opposite end. This method is used primarily on freight trains where the consist is not permanent.

The train pictured went to Barmouth, and is formed of older BR stock which is not cab-car compatible. There are no longer facilities for loco's to run round at Barmouth so a loco at each end was necessary to enable Tulyar to come back home again.

Not a dumb question, just a situation that you'll not experience every day in Sioux Falls! Hope I've answered it.

Simon: Thanks for the explanation. Would both locomotives be operating,perhaps one by remote control? Or, would the lead engine pull train, while the trailing engine idles?

[BR60103]

cogload: have I encountered you on the Railway Modelling Web? With a different name?

[John Bakeer]

David,
With modern stock it is possible to have both loco's powered up and driven in multiple in fact on long heavy trains this is a necessity.
In the case of the Barmouth run using older stock lacking MU connections and a fairly light train, my guess is that only the lead engine would be under power.
Must check out my MSTS as there is a run from Blackpool to Southport with a pair of 37s top and tail.
Last week my dear lady and I rode the entire Blackpool tramway (about 20 miles) with driver and 2 conductors, the rapport between these men and the passengers was a joy to see and hear.
John B.

[John Bakeer]

David,
With modern stock it is possible to have both loco's powered up and driven in multiple in fact on long heavy trains this is a necessity.
In the case of the Barmouth run using older stock lacking MU connections and a fairly light train, my guess is that only the lead engine would be under power.
Must check out my MSTS as there is a run from Blackpool to Southport with a pair of 37s top and tail.
Last week my dear lady and I rode the entire Blackpool tramway (about 20 miles) with driver and 2 conductors, the rapport between these men and the passengers was a joy to see and hear.
John B.

[John Bakeer]

Oooops!
Sneezed and doubled clicked the mouse--AGAIN!
John B.

[Anonymous]

Sort of going to subvert the tread now. I have just got the June issue of Trains and read an interesting article on the Metroliner brand. What i want to know is about Amtrack service outside the NE Coridor. If Amtrack want to add services say Los Angeles to San Diego, do Amtrack bid for paths from BNSF like a TOC does from Network Rail in Britain, and BNSF dispaches trains around Amtracks services, or is thier a different system.

[Murphy Siding]

Townsend: Someone will come along and correct me here. My understanding is that the American railroads are *required* to allow Amtrak over their lines, as part of the agreement that formed Amtrak. There is, I'm sure, a set formula for what Amtrak pays the host rairoad. The railroads then are in control of dispatching all the trains on their lines. Because the freight railroads do not seem to like hosting Amtrack trains, they tend to put them into sidings a lot, and cause havoc with Amtrak's schedules. To say it's not a good system is a drastic understatement.

[nanaimo73]

Do many of the Football Teams in the UK use rail to travel to and from matches ?
Would teams like Reading and Sheffield make more or less use of rail travel next season following promotion ?

[John Bakeer]

Murphy, Townsend,
I do know, from reading Trains for many years that, Amtrack has its own despatchers ie. NE Corridor, as do many other passenger lines, LIRR for instance is the reverse, I also understand that Amtrack despatchers are posted in the hoste railroads offices, but how wide this practice is? I am not sure.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

John: I think Amtrak only has dispatchers in the NE Corridor, because Amtrak owns that track. In the rest of the country I think the host railroads dipatch.

[Anonymous]

BR60103 - I dont go ont that site you are referring to.

Nanaimo - the players will be very unlikely to use the trains, but the supporters do. Occasionally accompanied by Mr Plods finest. This summer is going to be hell.

[Simon Reed]

Townsend - my understanding is that the host roads are required to despatch Amtrak over their "patch", presumably to a pre-agreed service level. I think we all know from experience or from our railroad reading that this is done with varying degrees of willingness and professionalism.

The concensus seems to be that CSX are pretty appalling at all levels of their dealings with Amtrak; the irony of this is that CSX rely on Amtrak despatching on the NEC.

I don't know how you'd go about getting an extra path. My guess would be that the host road would put their own requirements, capacity and projected growth first. You'd probably not stand a chance of getting an extra train on the Sunset route, certainly not between Tucson and El Paso, because it's already running at or near capacity.

On a less heavily used route I'm guessing that the host road would have no objection.

State intervention is also a factor; California offered BNSF a tax relief incentive when the frequency of the Capitals/San Jouaquins was increased.

Nanaimo73 - football specials in the UK are far and few between. There are various reasons for this including:-

* Scarcity of rolling stock
* The complexity of organising non-scheduled passenger traffic and the inherent costs of this
* The historical propensity of football fans to sma***heir trains up
* The relative inflexibility of trains as opposed to buses or private cars

It's also worth re-emphasising the geography at this point. The two premiership teams next season furthest away from each other are Portsmouth and Newcastle - about 400 miles. Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn, Liverpool, Everton and the two Manchesters are all within a 25 mile radius. Charlton,****nal, Tottenham Hotspur, West Ham, Chelsea and Fulham are within 10 miles of each other.

[Simon Reed]

Ooops - the auto-censor has been overzealous! I mean the team that played at Highbury until today and will be playing at Ashburton Grove, right next to the East Coast Main Line, next season.

I think we had a similar problem a while ago on here with that North Lincolnshire steel manufacturing town beginning with S....

[nanaimo73]

Thanks for the answers.

I don't see anything wrong with****nal being blanked out.
[(-D]